What do Non-catholics think "upon this rock" means

[Credo_ergo_sum]

And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. - Matthew 18:17

By your OWN admission…

She’s just not convinced that the RC-Church is “the” Church. By her own admission. If she would have thought the RC-Church is that, she would be Catholic and obedient to its teachings, don’t you think?

 

[Anna_Scott]

And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. - Matthew 18:17

By your OWN admission…

Not helpful.

She’s just not convinced that the RC-Church is “the” Church. By her own admission. If she would have thought the RC-Church is that, she would be Catholic and obedient to its teachings, don’t you think?

Thank you, Credo ergo sum.

Peace and blessings,
Anna

 

[just_came_back]

Well, 38000 independent churches perhaps, but everyone there has his own opinions and most think along the same lines. Anyway, I bet that there is a huge deal of diversity among Catholics as well, is that proof that it is wrong?

Not at all but with Catholics, you’ll find all believe the basic tenets of salvation as given by Scripture, Tradition and the Magesterium. Ask a Baptist the tenets of salvation and then a Methodist. They won’t say the same thing. Just saying…

 

[just_came_back]

She’s just not convinced that the RC-Church is “the” Church. By her own admission. If she would have thought the RC-Church is that, she would be Catholic and obedient to its teachings, don’t you think?

All of the Church’s gifts are available to her and to anyone else seeking truth or don’t you agree?

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

Not at all but with Catholics, you’ll find all believe the basic tenets of salvation as given by Scripture, Tradition and the Magesterium. Ask a Baptist the tenets of salvation and then a Methodist. They won’t say the same thing. Just saying…

Both will anwer with Sola Fide, I think. And the Eastern Catholics generally don’t have Penal Substitution ideas like the Latins and the Protestants have.

All of the Church’s gifts are available to her and to anyone else seeking truth or don’t you agree?

I know one thing, and that is that the Gates of Hell haven’t overwhelmed the Church. I just don’t know who is the Church.

And I wouldn’t want to partake of Catholic sacraments until I agree with their dogmas and doctrine for 100%.

 

[just_came_back]

Both will anwer with Sola Fide, I think. And the Eastern Catholics generally don’t have Penal Substitution ideas like the Latins and the Protestants have.

I know one thing, and that is that the Gates of Hell haven’t overwhelmed the Church. I just don’t know who is the Church.

And I wouldn’t want to partake of Catholic sacraments until I agree with their dogmas and doctrine for 100%.

Listen, I don’t mean to come off as cold or anything like that. If you are seeking the truth, I do pray you find it here within the RCC. I was born and raised protestant and had even left RCC after 10 years, due to my lack of prayer life and ignorance. I came back, because I know that this is the one true church Christ established.

Again, my prayers for you and others seeking. We will accept with open arms. Peace.

 

[just_came_back]

To me it means…that they are standing on the rock as they speak…and that he’s saying to Simon-Peter… “you recognize there is a God who wants good in the world…let’s all work together to keep moving in that positive direction. Can you and the others help?”

 

[livingwordunity]

Well, 38000 independent churches perhaps, but everyone there has his own opinions and most think along the same lines. Anyway, I bet that there is a huge deal of diversity among Catholics as well, is that proof that it is wrong?

There are “Catholics” who disagree with what the Church teaches, but authority to teach has always been known throughout Catholic Church history to exclusively exist in the one universal Magisterium (the Pope, and the bishops in union with the Pope). Those who call themselves “Catholic” and who reject the teachings of the Magisterium are the heretics. Protestantism doesn’t have a way to determine who’s a heretic and who isn’t since no one has authority in Protestantism to make such a determination. In Protestantism it’s based on nothing but opinion.

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

There are “Catholics” who disagree with what the Church teaches, but authority to teach has always been known throughout Catholic Church history to exclusively exist in the one universal Magisterium (the Pope, and the bishops in union with the Pope). Those who call themselves “Catholic” and who reject the teachings of the Magisterium have historically been called heretics.

Sure, but you can differ on some points of interpretation, right?

 

[livingwordunity]

Sure, but you can differ on some points of interpretation, right?

We can differ on non essentials (things which are not Church doctrine). For example, Catholics can disagree on the question of whether people in Genesis literally lived for hundreds of years or if saying they lived that long was just a way of saying they lived a really long time.

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

with protestants you’ll have 38,000 differing opinions. Proof enough it’s wrong?

Well, 38000 independent churches perhaps, but everyone there has his own opinions and most think along the same lines. Anyway, I bet that there is a huge deal of diversity among Catholics as well, is that proof that it is wrong?

and

We can differ on non essentials (things which are not Church doctrine). For example, Catholics can disagree on the question of whether people in Genesis literally lived for hundreds of years or if saying they lived that long was just a way of saying they lived a really long time.

Ah, so I was right after all

 

[just_came_back]

and

Ah, so I was right after all

Not really. As the one previous poster had exclaimed, Catholics do NOT disagree on the tenets of salvation whereas protestants do. Whether a Catholic believes Adam lived 930 literal years is irrelevant to their salvation. Again, I’m playing nice. LOL!

 

[livingwordunity]

Ah, so I was right after all

Right about what? Catholics can only disagree on petty things that aren’t taught by the Magisterium while Protestants can disagree about anything and make it all up as they go. It’s totally different.

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

Not really. As the one previous poster had exclaimed, Catholics do NOT disagree on the tenets of salvation whereas protestants do. Whether a Catholic believes Adam lived 930 literal years is irrelevant to their salvation. Again, I’m playing nice. LOL!

Oh, how come many Eastern Catholics don’t accept the Anselmian penal substitution view of salvation so essential to the western view of salvation?

 

[livingwordunity]

Oh, how come many Eastern Catholics don’t accept the Anselmian penal substitution view of salvation so essential to the western view of salvation?

I’ve never even heard of the “Anselmian penal substitution view of salvation”. Whatever it is, it’s not taught in Catholic teaching as essential for our salvation to understand such a theory. In Catholic teaching we aren’t saved by having superior understanding of how salvation works, we are saved by Jesus and doing what is necessary for our salvation. The Catholic Church agrees in the east and west on what is essential for our salvation. An example of an essential teaching on salvation is the need to be baptized. Protestants can’t even agree on whether baptism is important for salvation. Some Protestants (Salvation Army) have even eliminated the sacrament of baptism and have no sacraments.

 

[khuldar]

I know one thing, and that is that the Gates of Hell haven’t overwhelmed the Church. I just don’t know who is the Church.

And I wouldn’t want to partake of Catholic sacraments until I agree with their dogmas and doctrine for 100%.

:tiphat:
I hear what you’re saying, I had to wrestle with alot of things that the Catholic church taught for a number of years before I felt comfortable attending and saying: “Yes, I want to be a part of that.”

 

[just_came_back]

Oh, how come many Eastern Catholics don’t accept the Anselmian penal substitution view of salvation so essential to the western view of salvation?

I have no idea. I was speaking of the Latin Rite only because that is what I know. Do you know how many eastern Catholics I have met in my life? ZERO. Seriously and if they were, I didn’t know. We have 1 EC church here in upstate SC and I know absolutely nobody at that church. Truthfully can’t answer that question.

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

I’ve never even heard of the “Anselmian penal substitution view of salvation”. Whatever it is, it’s not taught in Catholic teaching as essential for our salvation to understand such a theory. In Catholic teaching we aren’t saved by having superior understanding of how salvation works, we are saved by Jesus and doing what is necessary for our salvation. The Catholic Church agrees in the east and west on what is essential for our salvation. An example of an essential teaching on salvation is the need to be baptized. Protestants can’t agree on whether baptism is important for salvation.

Ah, I agree with you there. And no, there is no such thing as salvation by knowledge

I have no idea. I was speaking of the Latin Rite only because that is what I know. Do you know how many eastern Catholics I have met in my life? ZERO. Seriously and if they were, I didn’t know. We have 1 EC church here in upstate SC and I know absolutely nobody at that church. Truthfully can’t answer that question.

Hope I didn’t make you angry. Sorry if I did

 

[khuldar]

Protestantism doesn’t have a way to determine who’s a heretic and who isn’t since no one has authority in Protestantism to make such a determination. In Protestantism it’s based on nothing but opinion.

What’s your take on the Methodist, Anglican & Presbyterian church’s who have tried people for heresy?

 

[teeboy]

It is clear to me that without apostolic succession, Jesus’ intent could mean many things.