V
VARC
Guest
I’ll take overlapping juridictions any day of the week over the unspeakable scandal that the American RCC is involved in right now. People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
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lucy212
Guest
quick…telll me how many Orthodox juristictions there are in America? 10? 15? 30? 73?; what long range goals has SCOBA laid out to move toward cooporation and unity?
Which, if any, or none, or some or these juristictions are in
in communion with each other; name at least 2 or 3 pan orthodox organizations/ministries that have been sucessfully launched through mutual cooperation and trust…
.Is there any real knowledge behind your generalizations and cliches, have you expended any effort, research, or fact gathering to back up claims of this horrible chaos we are drowning in?
What radio program did you get your information from and what was the name of the guest and interviewer…was it on EWTN or Ancient Faith Radio or OCN?
What documentation did he offer…specifics please…
I probably know just about as much about Roman Catholic dogma, history, world affairs, and have read more Catholic theology than most catholics. I would like to talk to someone who doesn’t check his brain at the papal door. You want to really talk about the chaos, what, exactly could Rome do if we submitted to her tomorrow ?Other than having the satisfaction of saying we are in communion with the see of Peter…if it is the right thing to do…there must be some powerful outcomes, movement toward unity (and dogmatically, what disagreements do any of the juristictions have with the Deposit of Faith…that which is necessary for salvation? that Rome could clear up for us.
while you are it -can you give me a “reader’s digest” version on the main theological disagreement over the filioque–and it’s not that the we got our panties in a bunch because you didn’t ask…or just because the incident with Constantinople still sticks in our craw…neither is the basis for our “hold out”…why don’t you start with Augustine…it’s easy to spot the problems in his writings on the Trinity …there are things within a layman’s understanding that would raise any self respecting Eastern orthodox Eyebrows (and should raise western ones as well)…you don’t even have to wade through any nasty Eastern Patristic sources, to get a glimmer of the problem.
So do you want to have a discussion or sling mud.
G
guanophore
Guest
Here we go again. Why does this always happen to every perfectly good thread?
I should post this over on apologetics as an example of Catholic fundamentalism.
Shouldn’t this go on another thread? Why does every dialogue on East/West so quickly turn into this kind of pissing match? Why can’t we just talk about the OP??
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jam070406
Guest
I’ll pass on your invitation to mud sling, thanks.quick…telll me how many Orthodox juristictions there are in America? 10? 15? 30? 73?; what long range goals has SCOBA laid out to move toward cooporation and unity?
Which, if any, or none, or some or these juristictions are in
in communion with each other; name at least 2 or 3 pan orthodox organizations/ministries that have been sucessfully launched through mutual cooperation and trust…
.Is there any real knowledge behind your generalizations and cliches, have you expended any effort, research, or fact gathering to back up claims of this horrible chaos we are drowning in?
What radio program did you get your information from and what was the name of the guest and interviewer…was it on EWTN or Ancient Faith Radio or OCN?
What documentation did he offer…specifics please…
I probably know just about as much about Roman Catholic dogma, history, world affairs, and have read more Catholic theology than most catholics. I would like to talk to someone who doesn’t check his brain at the papal door. You want to really talk about the chaos, what, exactly could Rome do if we submitted to her tomorrow ?Other than having the satisfaction of saying we are in communion with the see of Peter…if it is the right thing to do…there must be some powerful outcomes, movement toward unity (and dogmatically, what disagreements do any of the juristictions have with the Deposit of Faith…that which is necessary for salvation? that Rome could clear up for us.
while you are it -can you give me a “reader’s digest” version on the main theological disagreement over the filioque–and it’s not that the we got our panties in a bunch because you didn’t ask…or just because the incident with Constantinople still sticks in our craw…neither is the basis for our “hold out”…why don’t you start with Augustine…it’s easy to spot the problems in his writings on the Trinity …there are things within a layman’s understanding that would raise any self respecting Eastern orthodox Eyebrows (and should raise western ones as well)…you don’t even have to wade through any nasty Eastern Patristic sources, to get a glimmer of the problem.
So do you want to have a discussion or sling mud.
“I would like to talk to someone who doesn’t check his brain at the papal door.”
I guess for you Ad Hominem attacks are ok too eh?
Per your request:
ancientfaith.com/podcasts/illuminedheart/
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jam070406
Guest
Very nice. Thanks for the insult.
You could also email the Catholic “fundamentalist” Tim Staples and express your opinion to him. He claimed that that very passage was one that helped him come to Catholicism.
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Harpazo
Guest
You have to take into account the fact that there was a slight geographical disruption between the Maronites, but they still maintained communion with Rome.
You also need to understand the Syriac mindset in order to see that the Maronites never adopted Monothelitism. Their view of the dual-wills of Christ was different than the rest of the Church during their communication disruption. How is this not understandable? When one is out of communication with another, things can get sticky, but they never adopted Monothelitism, they’re accused of it, as you imply. Once communication resumed, they knew what was going on (the Maronites) and quickly reformed their belief to that of the whole Church.
I’ll let any of our Maronite brothers and sisters add to what I said.
Pace e Bene
Andrew
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Hesychios
Guest
I am not implying anything, I am making a clear statement. Your post is in contradiction to the known facts. The Maronites were not in communion with the Melkites, who most definitely were in communion with Rome at the time.
It is not possible (for example) to have the Ukrainian Catholics not in communion with the Melkite Catholics, yet at the same time both in communion with Rome.
The supposed geographic isolation is no excuse, they were not in Tibet, the mountain range they resided in was astride very major trade routes and communication was good. All of their neighbors were aware of them and they were aware of everyone else. The mountains were very defendable in time of crises, and difficult to make a living in, but they were not lost to the rest of the world.
The reason the Maronites were able to perpetuate themselves as a separate body was because the emperors troops had a hard time rooting them out. Everyone was aware of their presence, including the Muslim conquerors of the region.
It really serves no good purpose to perpetuate the myth, and I cannot see why anyone would want to.
Peace and all good things,
Michael
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josephdaniel29
Guest
You’re right there is no unity in the Orthodox Church as Catholics would define it. Our unity isn’t defined by our submission to a hierarch like the Pope but rather it is defined and guaranteed by our common faith and Eucharist. Have you been in an Orthodox Church in America? How can you say we’re not united in faith when I can walk into any Orthodox Church in this country and partake of the Eucharist? Which is more important, the communion with Christ in the Eucharist or communion with the Pope? How are we not united when we all partake of the same Body and Blood?
‘We are increasingly conscious of the fact that an Orthodox Church does not really exist’
Cardinal Walter Kasper
Through the Grace of God as far as the Catholic understanding goes one never will…
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jam070406
Guest
Did you bother listening to the podcasts I linked to?
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josephdaniel29
Guest
Heard them before but I still have questions for you.
Have you ever been in an Orthodox Church? Do you know any Orthodox Christians? In your opinion does the Eucharist have any part in defining unity?
And just for the record you guys aren’t completely innocent of the scandal of overlapping jurisdictions. How many Eastern Rite exarchates are there in the U.S. that overlap Latin dioceses? What about the Melkite and Maronite Patriarchs in Antioch?
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