What do Protestant denominations do well that we as Catholics can learn from?

[Richard_Lamb]

Stop worrying about carbs and fats et all, Just eat in moderation and enjoy life…what good is it to gain 10 years of life if you spend them worrying about what you eat…

 

[CD4]

buffalo:

Focus on the Family - how I wish Dobson would convert to Catholism.

Wouldn’t that be WONDERFUL? Dr. Dobson is one special Christian…Wouldn’t he make a graet Catholic? I admire him so much.

 

[everlastingthur]

We can absorb some of their zeal. Evangelicals especially are happy in the Lord. They are joyful. They read Scripture more than most Catholics. That is certainly something Catholics should do more.

 

[SpiritualSon]

Lance:

I totally disagree, I think most Catholics leave because of several reasons. 1. The Mass is long and boring. When Mass last over 1hr 20min the priest should at least try to make his homily interesting, I have attended algebra classes that were more interesting than most of the homilies at our parish. 2. The priest are unavailable(too busy) to talk to you about your problems. When my son was on drugs I was told that he was not equiped to deal with that but if I ever wanted to discuss my faith to give him a call. My faith was being shaken to it’s foundations and he could not see it. I got though it with prayer and a lot of suport from friends(most of whom are Catholic)but not much from my priest. My son is now clean and sober. 3. We do a poor job of traing our catachist so they in turn do a poor job of teaching the faith. Kids go through confirmation and still have very little idea about our faith. 4. We do not tend to be friendly to new comers, so they go where they feel welcome.

Lance,
I am happy your son is ok,and is away from the drugs.

Harry

 

[everlastingthur]

Wouldn’t that be WONDERFUL? Dr. Dobson is one special Christian…Wouldn’t he make a graet Catholic? I admire him so much.

I love Dr. Dobson. I lived three years in Colorado Springs, CO. A few times I saw bumper stickers that said “Focus on Your Own Family” Though, they were not meant to be friendly I’m certain they refer to him. His offices are beautiful, too by the way. Just some useless trivia for you James Dobson fans.

 

[chemcatholic]

mango_2003:

Question.

If I were to do this in a Mass, would the Priest know what I was doing? One of my friends suggested that I do this during the Ash Wed. service that I went to.

I just chose to sit down.

~mango~

Next time that you are at a Mass, wath the communion line. Little kids with their parents do the same thing.

And yes, the priest will know what you are doing. However, one time I was in the line of a Eucharistic Minister (not the priest), and the gentleman tried to give me a host. I think he was just not used to people actually coming up for a blessing, and he may have been a newer EM. If the priest is predictable, you can always sit in a pew that will go into the priest’s usual communion line to avoid unsure EM’s.

Peace

 

[jdemelo]

Lance:

I totally disagree, I think most Catholics leave because of several reasons. 1. The Mass is long and boring. When Mass last over 1hr 20min the priest should at least try to make his homily interesting, I have attended algebra classes that were more interesting than most of the homilies at our parish. 2. The priest are unavailable(too busy) to talk to you about your problems. When my son was on drugs I was told that he was not equiped to deal with that but if I ever wanted to discuss my faith to give him a call. My faith was being shaken to it’s foundations and he could not see it. I got though it with prayer and a lot of suport from friends(most of whom are Catholic)but not much from my priest. My son is now clean and sober. 3. We do a poor job of traing our catachist so they in turn do a poor job of teaching the faith. Kids go through confirmation and still have very little idea about our faith. 4. We do not tend to be friendly to new comers, so they go where they feel welcome.

I dont disagree, because faith and truth dont matter to some, and is unknown to others.

 

[jdemelo]

MartyL:

A fascinating thread!

Let me say that I am a member of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. Garrison Keillor refers to us (I believe) as the “Happy Lutherans,” while others are the “Dark Lutherans.” You might know who they are, but I won’t tell. Let me also say that my wife, my mom and her side of the family are all Roman Catholic. I was married in a Catholic Church and I’ve been to countless masses.

Like the first post suggested, I don’t want to talk about doctrines here, but I also will recognize that some of the differences in the services stem from doctrine. THAT IS BEYOND THE SCOPE.

With that said, let me comment on Panis Angelicas’s topic, a reasoned faith. Specifically, Panis Angelicas suggests that Evangelicals are all about emotion, not a reasoned faith. People go to those churches because it ‘feels good’ instead of making them use their heads. That’s funny. The whole Reformation of the Catholic Church began with 95 thesis posted on a church door in Wittenberg. They were for intellectual debate! but the debate was tabled by Papal Bull of excommunication. Nevertheless, the intellectual side to the Reformation remains strong and vibrant. On the other hand, how sad it is to criticize other churches because they make people feel good. What would a loving God think of that! I feel for Panis Angelicas!

Catholics do a lot right, but here are some thoughts:

1. Artistic styles did not cease after 1500 AD. Any 600 year old, famous Christian image now hanging in the Louver was pop art in its day. There is no reason that today’s graphic artists can’t send the same message in modern styles. Tradition is fine, but it’s the message that counts. When the local diocese here sends out materials, let me tell you, the graphics no longer inspire. Sometimes, they seem a little weird. I’m sorry, but pictures of the sacred heart of Mary dripping blood just ain’t gonna make be run down to my local priest and kiss his ring. (By the way, TV images of guys-in-robes kissing rings on other guys-in-robes doesn’t help either! Shake hands, salute, bow … but don’t kiss rings.)
2. Families with young children - especially those who are returning to the Church after their wild twenties - relate to married clergy better. Like attracts like, it’s that simple. Such clergy have life experiences that parishoners see as relevant. Such families are also more willing to trust that children will not be harmed. Whether it is true or not, that is a common perception.
3. Many protestant churches - i.e., Pentecostal churches - have abolished the liturgical approach to services. My church has not, and I am glad. I like the traditional services far better than non-traditional. But there are degrees of formality, and if anybody has the reputation for formality, it’s Roman Catholics. That holy smoke-bomb, the holy dishwasher after communion, the annoying bell during communion, and all of those Catholic aerobics are far too mystical for most non-catholics. Most assuredly these bring Catholics together in tradition and sense of their Church, but to outsiders, the actions are alienating. If you did not grow-up with that stuff, it’s natural to feel self-conscious as an outsider. If you feel that way for too long, you won’t come back.
4. The inch-thick, newsprint book at mass that tells the weekly readings, Psalms and hymns is the most poorly organized TV Guide this American has ever seen. First, I need to know (and how would I??) the current stage of the mass (General Confession, First Reading, etc.,). Then, I have to flip through that section of the book to find this week’s service (which might use Saturday’s date instead of Sunday’s, and always is the the Third Sunday after the Feast of St. XXXX). By the time I’ve found the right response, that part of the mass is over. We’ve moved on, and now I have to go to a whole new section of the book to find the right week, to get the right response, try to catch up … dang, I’ve missed it again! It’s not exactly conducive to finding inner peace, if you know what I mean.

Protestant churches, on the otherhand, generally have a new guide printed each week that sets forth the order of worship on one page. In Lutheran traditional services (which are notably similar to Catholic Mass in form and order), there are “Settings.” Almost flow-charts, these settings set forth in order what is happening for that week. The hymn numbers are printed in the guide, and on a placard near the alter. You might not know the tune, but you generally will know what’s happening.

1. Finally, Lutheran churches ladies serve a lot of Jell-o. There might be something there. If not, try putting some canned pineapple in the Jell-o. If that doesn’t work, try marshmellows!

MartyL

Impressive insight! pineapple in the Jell-o

 

[Carrie_Andrews]

Wheres the LOVE people? What started out as a reasonable question, got flipped around to an attack. I think EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE, has room for growth. We can find outstanding examples of Gods Love in every church, we all Love the same God and He Loves all of us! I watched a Baptist minister from Bethlehem, PA preach satan and his work like I’ve never heard anywhere else. Does that mean I don’t Love the Word comeing from Father Coropi?(and wouldn’t I love to be able to yell, Preach it John!) If we are ever to “become one” we have to find the good in the other! Theres a goldmine of good inside and outside of the Catholic Church! Once you’ve reached maturity in your faith, your not afraid of the other faiths.

PAX

 

[Carrie_Andrews]

Carrie Andrews:

Wheres the LOVE people? What started out as a reasonable question, got flipped around to an attack. I think EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE, has room for growth. We can find outstanding examples of Gods Love in every church, we all Love the same God and He Loves all of us! I watched a Baptist minister from Bethlehem, PA preach satan and his work like I’ve never heard anywhere else. Does that mean I don’t Love the Word comeing from Father Coropi?(and wouldn’t I love to be able to yell, Preach it John!) If we are ever to “become one” we have to find the good in the other! Theres a goldmine of good inside and outside of the Catholic Church! Once you’ve reached maturity in your faith, your not afraid of the other faiths.

PAX

Men are wise in proportion, not to their experience, but to their capacity for experience. G.B. Shaw

 

[bengal_fan]

Kevin Cassidy:

Second their MUSIC does worship God whereas our “stuff” often falls way short. It is time to ban the guitar and piano from Mass and have only organ music and real hymns or chants. No silly puffy songs. Handbells would be nice too. They are beautiful…

you know, some people really enjoy the guitar and piano and the sound of those instruments helps them in singing the words to God and opposed to an organ and hanbells can be distracting to some one who doesn’t particulary enjoy those instruments. at a parish i know, they have a mass that is geared towards those who enjoy more contemporary music. they don’t change the mass they just use different songs and arrangements during mass.

Eph. 5:19- *“Speak to on another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord” * Col 3:16- “Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God.”

these versed speak of different styles of music and songs. we should be willing to be challenged in our worship and even our singing. this is why, even though i don’t enjoy the organ, i can worship with it and even learn to enjoy it. i once heard some one say that you should dislike every 3rd song you sing in church as some one else disliked the other 2 you liked.

 

[Beverly]

I once sang at a Catholic funeral for one of our older, black parishioners and most of her family were Baptist. We had an elderly white priest and forgive me, but he used to give the most boring, long, monotone homilies I ever heard and when he gave the homily (eulogy?), these family members began to say, “Amen!”, “You tell it, brother!”, and “Hallelujah! Thank you, Jesus!” and it was the most amazing thing. He got fired up and gave the most rousing homily I have heard in a long time! I love it! And if you think about any time you have talked to a large group, it did make a huge difference if they seemed to be interested in what you are saying and encouraging or if they seemed to be looking at their watch waiting for you to finish. So while I may not shout, “Amen!” during the sermon, I try to pay attention and nod and encourage the homilist as we all should.

I don’t think if we say that Protestant churches do something well, we are being in any way unfaithful to the Catholic Church. After all, a lot of these things we are supposed to be doing but we do not do well… One of these is tithing. Catholics are not great at tithing. When I was very first married, my husband was not Catholic and I had no job outside of the home, so I didn’t tithe although really, I should have. When I would confess this, my well-meaning priest would say, “It’s okay, do what you can, tithe your time and talent!” The time and talent part is good but I wish he had chastised me on not trusting God. All that we have is a gift from God and we should be giving back the top 10% to God and trusting that He will supply our NEEDS." We had many financial problems over the years and only recently have we started to tithe. And isn’t it strange, my husband and I make less than we ever have and we NOW always have what we need! When I hear about our money problems at church and how we don’t have the money to fund good programs for our youth, I wish our priests would really teach the principles of tithing. But it never fails, during the Bishop’s Annual Appeal or some other fund raising, there are always those that say, “All they care about is money…”

Another thing done well is what they call Sunday School and we call Catechism. Everyone active in most Protestant Churches is in some type of ongoing education. In our church, after you are confirmed, you are on your own. I see many instances of kids floundering after confirmation and ending up going to church with friends to some youth rally or other at Protestant churches because they are craving fellowship and spirituality. To those of you who say the mass is enough, that sounds great, but if it were that simple, we wouldn’t be losing our youth to other churches. Even my own children, who do not miss mass on Sunday, have attended inter-denominational groups at other churches for the fellowship and fun. And yes, I have talked to them about coming back and starting it at our church, but there is no leadership support and no financial support for them. It also seems that Protestant churches are better at involving everyone in some ministry - I am talking about during the mass but teaching, service, out-reach.

 

[bengal_fan]

Beverly:

All that we have is a gift from God and we should be giving back the top 10% to God and trusting that He will supply our NEEDS." We had many financial problems over the years and only recently have we started to tithe. And isn’t it strange, my husband and I make less than we ever have and we NOW always have what we need! When I hear about our money problems at church and how we don’t have the money to fund good programs for our youth, I wish our priests would really teach the principles of tithing. But it never fails, during the Bishop’s Annual Appeal or some other fund raising, there are always those that say, “All they care about is money…”

well said beverly,
in Malachi chapter 3 God rebukes His people for not trusting Him with their money. it’s one of the only times in scripture where He tells us to test Him and he will “throw open the floodgates of heaven.” pretty cool huh

 

[Beverly]

bengal_fan:

in Malachi chapter 3 God rebukes His people for not trusting Him with their money. it’s one of the only times in scripture where He tells us to test Him and he will “throw open the floodgates of heaven.” pretty cool huh

I have had some great experiences since we have started tithing - it has done so much to build up my faith. In the world’s terms, it seems so illogical to put that money in that envelope when I have bills due and I am not sure how we will get through the week, but God never fails. Now I am not saying I have not been really kind of clutching that envelope and gritting my teeth, but then I just pray, “Lord, you know where I have been and you know how scary this is for me, but I am going to be obedient to you and trust you.” My husband has just kind of let me take care of it and a couple of times he has gotten a little aggravated initially at me when he realizes the chunk I stuck in the envelope, but it has not caused an argument and it has really edified his faith to see things fall into place. A couple of times, we have had some tight squeezes on paying a bill or having to ssssttrreeettcchhhh that tank of gas, but it always works out. I say if you really want to see God work in your life, start really tithing.

 

[onaquest]

PaulAckermann:

I think Catholic priests in general can learn from Protestant preacher how to preach sermons.

There are exception. There is Father John Corapi, and Bishop Fulteen Sheen. But priests in general do not have that fire in their bones. Many priest don’t tell it like it is. They do not preach about Hell and abortion. Many priests are afraid to tell it like it is. They are afraid they would lose people.

I am less interested in their ability as public speakers and more struck by their humility and vulnerability to lead us in prayer. Even if a Catholic priest gives a less than stellar homily his ability to face God with us-is what drew me to convert to Catholicism.–I remember being disappointed that he was facing us and not leading us upward and onward-I’ve been taught why they face us now-
there is nothing more intimate than the mass-and our priests share this with us.
That is where to answer this thread depends on where we live- which particular church have each of us been exposed to-There is no continuity even from town to town. Growing up we had a wonderful Baptist preacher-he died and we found ourselves without a shepherd-It was fifteen years before I came to the fullness of the Catholic faith.
Many protestant and evangelical churches have much to offer—but you’ve got to walk into the right one-in the right year-on the right day.

One of my favorite stories of this preacher-Growing up my mother worked at a restaurant on Sunday’s-Brother Sherman and his wife who otherwise would have stayed home on Sunday would come to mom’s restaurant and have a hamburger–that story reminds me of St. Francis who broke his fast to eat with his sick brother.

 

[dream_wanderer]

The only thing I can think of is continuing adult education. There were several cradle Catholic sponsers in our RICA class who said at the end of it how much they learned about their own faith that they never knew before! I was surprised. There should be something similar to the Protestant adult Sunday School classes…though not necessarily on Sunday. Adults should know their own faith!

dream wanderer

 

[Lance]

iguana27:

I was told that this was “old school” and incorrect and not actually supposed to be practiced anymore. I was told that it was never officially taught.

I don’t know if it is correct or not but we still do it in our parish and the priest encourages people who can’t receive to get a blessing. When we were in class for Extaordinary Minister this is what they told us to do. It could still be wrong, but that is what we were taught.

 

[davy39]

I would say they support their churches financially better than we do. Too many catholics think that if they throw a dollar bill in the collection, that should take care of everything. Too many churches and schools have closed for lack of money.

 

[jeffjuls]

Without any prompting from me, my 9 yr old son answered this question as I was putting him to bed after after his last day of Vacation Bible School at a neighborhood evangelical chuch.

“Dad, this is serious. It’s a good thing I went to that camp because before I was maybe going to go to heaven and now for sure I’m going to go to heaven.” I was thinking this was some kind of always saved salvation theology he had gotten until my son explained what he meant. “I used to sometimes think that God couldn’t do everything and be so powerful so I didn’t always believe in Him, but the teachers did a lot of studying and taught us that God can do anything and now I don’t have any doubts about God.”

When I asked my son what helped him learn and understand this the most his answer was simple, “the music.” And he was right. Just in the time I spent dropping off and picking up my kids, I got to experience the enthusiastic, soulful praise music led by prayerful and encouraging moms and dads.

Oh, how I wish our local Catholic parishes took seriously Christ’s last words on earth and His Great Commission to “Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations…” Matthew 28:19. Encouraging our parish ministries to think like evangelists is often as hard a pushing wet noodles. As a committed Catholic father of four, I thank God for the example and help from some of our evangelical Christian brothers and sisters for helping me to raise my kids with enthusiasm for their faith in Christ.

 

[whit]

Panis Angelicas:

Oh, I hate to say this, but I think we’ve already spent too much time trying to “learn” from the protestants…

In many respects, we’ve lost our own identities as Catholics as we’ve tried to imitate protestant services and sing protestant hymns.

We’ve blurred the lines so much that many no longer see black and white, but only gray…And if gray is gray is gray, then any church will do…so go “worship” where you have the most fun.

Pax Christi. <><

Well said, Panis.

I had a friend who converted a week before his death, who was an ordained Baptist minister although he never had his own church.
The last years of his life he told me he was a “small c” Catholic and thinking aobut coming into the Church, and he spent a lot of time trying to get friends and acquaintances to think about their churches and the services they attended.
He said he constantly asked these people “Where is the WORSHIP?” in their services. Many of them understood.
When we spoke, he and I, he basically stated that these churches were not places of worship but “social clubs”. If you didn’t like the pastor you could fire him. That if he didn’t teach what you wanted to hear, you could fire him. I mean what kind of religious experience is that?
This fellow used to run a local bulletin board and on that board we got into religious conversations and one of the threads was “wine or grape juice” and it was goofy. One guy, Baptist with a wife who worked at the church/school and two sons who also attended, stated that flat out Jesus did not drink wine, never, not ever.
Now I understand on the side the guy spoke to my friend and admitted that it was ludicrous to say that but that was what his pastor was preaching and that was what his boys had been taught and he had to keep up the gig, right or wrong. He told my friend that once he had approached the pastor about the teaching but the pastor said he could do nothing about it because he would lose his job. The congregation was anti-alcohol, no dancin’, no cards, etc. and that was it.
My friend said recently he had spoken to this fellow again, and had been told that he didn’t think he was a Baptist anymore but couldn’t leave the church because of his wife’s job and his sons are heavily involved in the Church and would be highly aggravated that he would have lied to them.
Now that my friend has passed away I will never know what happened but I knew the family slightly and they are in my prayers.

God bless all.
Whit