What do Protestants think of these things?

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I reckon most Protestants I know (and I’ve some sympathy with their stance) is 'that’s great, for that era, for that time, but Christ’s still working so lets keep our eyes focused on what he’s doing right here, right now. It comes back to the emphasis on personal relationship with Jesus. The Protestants I’m friendly with accept that the saints had a personal relationship with Jesus - and that’s what really counts, not anything else.
 
The mentioned miracles are part of what attracted me to The Church.
Even as a protestant child, I believed lock, stock and barrel in all Catholic sacramentals and miracles.
I must have been “born a Catholic” and not really known it until 50 years later!
 
The mentioned miracles are part of what attracted me to The Church.
Even as a protestant child, I believed lock, stock and barrel in all Catholic sacramentals and miracles.
I must have been “born a Catholic” and not really known it until 50 years later!
Wow, someone sort of like me. I did know it, but it took until I was 51 to enter the Church! For me, it was the Sanctuary Lamp (not knowing at the time what it signified), Mary and miracles.🙂
 
Why would it be odd that God continues to interact with His people ???

Throughout the Old and New Testament, He revealed Himself to just about every major person in history. The prophets, the Apostles and just about everyone heard His voice, was visited by angels or performed miracles.

Why should miracle workers or apparations be any different after the Gospels as it was before the Gospels or during the Gospels. Jesus Himself tells us that many of His followers will do wondrous things even greater than He did. Should we not believe Him ???
I do believe Him. And, now that I’ve absorbed more of these Marian and other manifestations that have become so much a part of Catholic piety, and understand that the Church has a hierarchical means by which to judge them, I am not personally bothered by them. I don’t give them much attention, though. My own Marian piety is very strong, but I just don’t find anything of much interest in Fatima, or Lourdes, or Guadalupe, except that Guadalupe seems to me to be a reaching out to the native Americans who were being evangelized by the Spanish, and this interests me since I have a Mexican fiance, and live as a minority among Mexican people.

However, I do know that evangelical Protestants are bothered very deeply by Marian apparitions. When a dyed-in-the-wool evangelical, who is starting to see the logic behind the arguments for the historicity and divine authority of the Catholic Church, is confronted with Fatima, he has an allergic reaction to it, caused mainly by his indoctrinations against Marian piety, that are difficult for him to overcome.
 
I do believe Him. And, now that I’ve absorbed more of these Marian and other manifestations that have become so much a part of Catholic piety, and understand that the Church has a hierarchical means by which to judge them, I am not personally bothered by them. I don’t give them much attention, though. My own Marian piety is very strong, but I just don’t find anything of much interest in Fatima, or Lourdes, or Guadalupe, except that Guadalupe seems to me to be a reaching out to the native Americans who were being evangelized by the Spanish, and this interests me since I have a Mexican fiance, and live as a minority among Mexican people.

However, I do know that evangelical Protestants are bothered very deeply by Marian apparitions. When a dyed-in-the-wool evangelical, who is starting to see the logic behind the arguments for the historicity and divine authority of the Catholic Church, is confronted with Fatima, he has an allergic reaction to it, caused mainly by his indoctrinations against Marian piety, that are difficult for him to overcome.
Hmmmm… didn’t bother me as a convert. I’m not required to believe anything about Fatima. I’m not required to pray the rosary.
I kinda had an easy time about it though. I was convicted strongly by the Holy Spirit about the Real Presence in the Eucharist.
 
In fact, I’d go so far as to say that, if it weren’t for things like Fatima, Lourdes, Padre Pio, and some other things that Protestants view as being “odd,” we’d probably be seeing many more evangelicals convert to Catholicism. These things are a real stumbling block for Protestants.
Why is it Protestants have no problem with the holy roller, falling-down-in-the aisle “miracles” claimed by Benny Hinn and Oral Roberts, but anything miraculous involving the Catholic Church (Lourdes, Fatima, Padre Pio) is looked at with suspicion? As you said, the whole “Mary” thing probably has alot do do with it.
 
In my experience, protestants are complete literalists.
They can see Hinn and Roberts and their “miracles”, so they believe.
If they haven’t SEEN The Holy mother for themselves, they can’t believe.
It’s sad really.
Sort of like Thomas and Christ’s wounds.
 
In my experience, protestants are complete literalists.
From experience and observation, it seems that Protestantism tends in two directions: either liberalism or fundamentalism. Either they completely water down and deny the Bible (like John Spong and his ilk), or they become fundamentalists and take the literalist route. When I first became a Christian, I rejected the mainline churches as they many seemed too liberal (the warm ‘n’ fuzzy feel-good pap you see in commercials for the United Methodist Church is a good example), so I became a fundamentalist Southern Baptist. However, after a while that wasn’t enough either, so I took the third route: I became Catholic! 👍
 
From experience and observation, it seems that Protestantism tends in two directions: either liberalism or fundamentalism. Either they completely water down and deny the Bible (like John Spong and his ilk), or they become fundamentalists and take the literalist route. When I first became a Christian, I rejected the mainline churches as they many seemed too liberal (the warm ‘n’ fuzzy feel-good pap you see in commercials for the United Methodist Church is a good example), so I became a fundamentalist Southern Baptist. However, after a while that wasn’t enough either, so I took the third route: I became Catholic! 👍
Yes, and in fact, Christian fundamentalism was born in the early 20th century as a reaction to the liberalism that had pretty much taken over the mainline Protestant denominations as a result of various influences throughout the 19th century. I don’t think Catholicism played any role at all in this.

The problem, as I see it, for American Catholicism, is that it sort of lost its mind after Vatican II. All of that appears to be settling down now, thanks in large part to JPII and Benedict, who have been leading us back to a more basic, less experimental model of Church. Protestant fundamentalists actually have a lot in common with conservative Catholics, and I expect to see lots of conversions in the years ahead.
 
The problem, as I see it, for American Catholicism, is that it sort of lost its mind after Vatican II. All of that appears to be settling down now, thanks in large part to JPII and Benedict, who have been leading us back to a more basic, less experimental model of Church. Protestant fundamentalists actually have a lot in common with conservative Catholics, and I expect to see lots of conversions in the years ahead.
Yes, for some reason, some folks in the Church seemed to think we should be more like Protestants (the liberal kind, not the fundamentalist kind).
C.S. Lewis said something to the effect (I can’t remember where I read it) that the conservatives of the various denominations were fairly close to each other (this may account for Lewis’ popularity among Christians of all stripes since he was conservative and didn’t water down the faith) and it would be from them that Christian union would occur. He said the liberals were always changing what they believed and that we would never get reunion from them.
 
I’ve often wondered what Protestants think of miracles such as Padre Pio (Capuchin Friar bearing the wounds of Our Lord) and also the Incorruptibles (bodies of Saints that do not corrupt).

These two things are rarely heard about, even within Catholicism. I believe things like this make the Catholic faith so wonderful, because they always bring us closer to Christ.

So what do Protestants think about this? I must also ask, assuming there will be objections: Is it so far fetched for God to send such miracles?

Thoughts?

In Pax Christi
Andrew
Well, the ones I know apparently haven’t thought about it much. I am not sure if it is generally known (or maybe I’m not with the right people).

I do remember some time ago, when I was reading in Galatians, I asked one of my friends (we’re both Protestants) about whether Galatians 6:17 meant that the Apostle Paul had the stigmata (I assume this is what you’re referring to with the friar?), and she didn’t know what it was, so we ended up dropping the subject. No other non-Catholic Christians I know have ever said anything about it either. But I am still curious.

If such a miracle would indeed draw people closer to Christ, I see no reason why it couldn’t happen. Same thing with the Incorruptables.

Oh, and I read somewhere (sorry, can’t remember exactly where) that statues get the stigmata too. True, or was it just to try and freak out Protestants? :confused:

And no, I don’t know why I think of it as much as I do, either… :confused:

Zirconia
 
Don’t think for a second that all protestants think highly of Benny Hinn.All of you seem to pick all the key figures in the protestant faith like we idolize them or that they are the final word on the protestant faith.Quite frankly I think Oral Roberts should put his foot in his mouth and Benny Hinn…I won’t even go there.It’s not really fair to assume they represent the enitre protestant faith.Sure Jimmy Swaggart messed up as did Jim and Tammy Baker So what?That’s between them and God.Catholics have this habit of picking out the worst in famous protestants and rub it in all our faces.There have been numerous Catholic priests who have sexually abused children.I certainly don’t judge the rest of you because of their actions nor should any protestant.Seriously folks!Get a grip!
 
I read somewhere that stimata happens in Islam too.

And that wounds tend to mimmic images seen by the bearer of the stigmata. Some may have wounds in the palms of the hands while others may have wounds in the wrists.

Just thought I’d through taht in there.
 
Don’t think for a second that all protestants think highly of Benny Hinn.All of you seem to pick all the key figures in the protestant faith like we idolize them or that they are the final word on the protestant faith.Quite frankly I think Oral Roberts should put his foot in his mouth and Benny Hinn…I won’t even go there.It’s not really fair to assume they represent the enitre protestant faith.Sure Jimmy Swaggart messed up as did Jim and Tammy Baker So what?That’s between them and God.Catholics have this habit of picking out the worst in famous protestants and rub it in all our faces.There have been numerous Catholic priests who have sexually abused children.I certainly don’t judge the rest of you because of their actions nor should any protestant.Seriously folks!Get a grip!
Fair enough.
 
Don’t think for a second that all protestants think highly of Benny Hinn.All of you seem to pick all the key figures in the protestant faith like we idolize them or that they are the final word on the protestant faith.Quite frankly I think Oral Roberts should put his foot in his mouth and Benny Hinn…I won’t even go there.It’s not really fair to assume they represent the enitre protestant faith.Sure Jimmy Swaggart messed up as did Jim and Tammy Baker So what?That’s between them and God.Catholics have this habit of picking out the worst in famous protestants and rub it in all our faces.There have been numerous Catholic priests who have sexually abused children.I certainly don’t judge the rest of you because of their actions nor should any protestant.Seriously folks!Get a grip!
I distinguish between the TV Protestants, like Benny Hinn and many others, and the hard-working, Bible-believing, faithful Protestants who lead congregations of real people. Just as Hollywood doesn’t really represent real life, these TV Protestants don’t represent real Protestant faith.

However, it must also be said that the FACT of Protestantism makes these crazy TV preachers possible. If you spend any time, as I do, browsing the various Protestant religious channels on Direct TV, you will find a variety of doctrinal teaching that is truly mind-boggling! This could never happen under Catholicism. We Catholics have a Church that wouldn’t for a moment put up with that sort of foolishness. Go over to EWTN and find solid, doctinally-sound teaching and worship; none of these fake priests like Hinn, who loves to wear a sort of suggestion of a Roman collar.

The FACT of Protestantism is a fractured faith. There are literally hundreds of Protestant variants, and few of them agree with each other, and all of them are at odds with the Church that Jesus established, out of which they popped like infected pimples.

Many Protestants are, as well they should be, embarrassed and annoyed at these TV clowns who soak old people for their social security checks, leading people further away from the genuine faith of the Catholic Church. But one thing Protestants can’t do is deny their ultimate religious responsibility for Benny Hinn and that fat guy down in San Antonio who’s name I won’t glorify by mentioning here; that anti-Catholic behemoth. It is Protestant misbehavior, Protestant refusal to submit to valid authority, that creates the playing field for these monsters, and so it is their ultimate responsibility.

I say these things in love, but sometimes, love hurts, eh?
 
Please distinguish between Protestants more judiciously. There are of course Protestant liberals, found almost exclusively in a very few mainline Protestant denominations. Catholics have their own liberal wing, even if it seldom rears it’s head on this forum. Generally, the majority of faithful in both the RCC and in Protestant churches are not very welcoming nor open towards such liberals and most of us would greatly prefer that the liberals would just go away and start their own churches instead of trying to co-opt ours.

There are Protestant Evangelicals, who have the most in common with conservative Roman Catholics theologically. Some Evangelicals are part of established, historic, or ‘Mainline’ Protestant denominations, some are members or second-and third-generation Protestant denominations such as the Baptists, etcetera. Many Evangelicals are more-or-less open to dialogue with Roman Catholics, even if they would not consider themselves ‘ecumenical’.

There are ‘fundamentalist’ Protestants who tend to be fringe representatives of conservative Protestantism, and who usually want little or no dialogue with anyone whom they see as ‘false teachers’, Roman Catholics or otherwise. Roman Catholics have their own versions of fundamentalism: Sede Vacantists and Montanists would be representative examples.

So far as media figures go, Benny Hinn and Oral Roberts (along with Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, Robert Tilton, and doubtless countless others whom I am overlooking at the moment, are members of another fringe, heterodox movement known as the Prosperity or Health-and-Wealth movement. Most of these sorts of figures are more Pentecostal in orientation. Many of these ministries have been caught engaged in very unsavory and unChristianly financial dealings.

Most Evangelicals, and most Protestant fundamentalists reject such ministries as bringing confusion, ridicule, and disgrace to the simple message of the Gospel. Certainly, we do NOT credit these ministries with the miracles they pretend to perform. (Rarely do people such as Benny Hinn really allow their claims to be tested in any objective or rigorous way–I would much more accept the miracles at Fatima, which WERE scrutinized to some degree). There are plenty of examples of good, sound teachers among Protestants if one gets off the Trinity Broadcasts networks and looks elsewhere.

Catholics have had fewer egregious examples of media figures who brought scandal to the Faith–Father Coughlin is the only example which comes immediately to mind–but then, Roman Catholics tend not to support mass media with the same degree of commitment that Evangelicals do. I get the impression that EWTN, and even CatholicAnswers itself, struggle to make budget on a regular basis, even though the RCC is the largest single Christian denomination in the United States. In any case, NOT to rub salt in sore wounds, the RCC has had it’s share of scandals in other venues.
 
I totally believe in miracles but to believe that Jesus’ face was on the side of a tree???Not sure if you saw that bit on the news.No one will see Jesus till He returns or unless you die before then and make it in to heaven.I really have to question some of these obsurd sightings.
Yet Paul got to see Him on the road to Damascus.
 
Most Evangelicals, and most Protestant fundamentalists reject such ministries as bringing confusion, ridicule, and disgrace to the simple message of the Gospel.
Not sure what you mean by “most” but I’ll take it at face value and understand you to mean a “majority.” And I will disagree with that. When I was a fundamentalist, I would often go to events that were sponsored by a local fundamentalist church, or a grouping of churches, who would bring in some TBN personality, or some music group that appeared frequently on TBN (such as Carman). These events were always PACKED with people from fundamentalist/evangelical churces far and wide. Advertising would go on for weeks prior. At the events themselves, acknowledgement of the local churches that sponsored and promoted the events was done onstage by the personalities, often with pastors appearing onstage. What I gather from the literally thousands of participants from literally dozens of local churches, is that TBN is well-supported among the fundamentalists and evangelicals.
There are plenty of examples of good, sound teachers among Protestants if one gets off the Trinity Broadcasts networks and looks elsewhere.
I absolutely agree. However, it remains that TBN is well supported among fundamentalists and evangelicals (I tend to not see all evangelicals as fundamentalists). As well, this fundamentalist support for TV ministers dates back to the earliest days of Oral Roberts’ healing crusades on TV, through the days of the PTL Club, the 700 Club, and others. The growth of the prosperity preachers is undoubtedly linked to their connection with TV broadcasting, and its ability to reach people in their homes with glitzy, entertainment-oriented programming and fundamentalist, tent-meeting style preaching.
Roman Catholics tend not to support mass media with the same degree of commitment that Evangelicals do. I get the impression that EWTN, and even CatholicAnswers itself, struggle to make budget on a regular basis, even though the RCC is the largest single Christian denomination in the United States.
If you spend any time watching EWTN you will have noted by now that virtually no raising of funds is done there. Every so often, someone will very briefly mention that there is a need for fiancial support, but it is rare, and brief. Very different from the TBN style where they link their financial support from viewers to the tithe, and hold days-long fundraisers on-air. It may very well be that EWTN struggles financially, and it is also true that Catholic ministries generally are not floating in oceans of cash. Several reasons for this, but the overall reason is that God provides. He doesn’t necessarily provide lavishly, as the properity Protestants claim, but he always does provide for His work, in just the correct amount. Personally, I don’t think it is healthy for pastors to have lots of money sitting around. Money tends to cause various forms of corruption, as we all know, and have witnessed among the Protestant TV evangelizers, and even in some Catholic parishes where priests have been caught with their hands in the jar. The entire attitude of Catholicism to the raising of money is quite different from that of most Protestants, and especially different from that of fundamentalists, most of whom are now infected with the prosperity gospel. This attitude towards money is also reflected in the Catholic attitude to evangelization. Catholics generally do not evangelize. Protestant fundamentalists, OTOH, are almost completely given over to “speading the word” because, if these mega churches are not growing, they are dying; there is no middle ground according to their view. One of my very good friends was in a Christian and Missionary Alliance Seminary in New York, and he told me of an entire area of study titled “Church Growth” which I found interesting, and somewhat discomfiting. Turned out that one of his seminary projects was to actually found a church, which he aimed to do out of our Bible study. This was one of the early Protestant things that moved me towards Catholicism.
In any case, NOT to rub salt in sore wounds, the RCC has had it’s share of scandals in other venues.
And this will always be so. The Church isn’t perfect, but it is protected from doctrinal error by God Himself, a fact which can be seen by the integrity of the gospel which has survived all manner of attack for two thousand years and going. Unlike the Protestants, who are busy bickering amongst themselves, with a wide variety of gospels, many variations on important teachings about salvation, sin, redemption, heaven and hell, etc, the Catholic Church is doctrinally seamless and historically continuous. Moreover, it is the Protestants who gave birth to all the nasty little cults, mostly American, that blot the countryside with their various unholy teachings, leading people away from Christ, rather than toward.
 
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