What do the Jehovahs Witnesses believe in?

[perro_sarnoso]

Yesterday, as I was at the bus stop awaiting my bus to go to my Dr. appointment, I was approached by a nice JW man who was handed me some copies of the Watchtower and Awake! This man was well-intentioned, but he is in the wrong religion.

Also, my ex-girlfriend was a former Catholic turned JW. I tried to re-convert her back to the true Church, but to no avail. This girl I love dearly, she is also a Website designer, and I and her have a great relationship, but I am a devout Catholic and a business man. I work hard (80 hours a week), on my business and I have been thinking to myself about something that I have understood about the JWs.

What exactly do the JWs believe in? I love my girlfriend dearly, but I don’t know if I should continue the relationship or not if she does not want to convert back to her Catholic faith, because I want to get married some day.

I threw away my copies of Awake! and I threw away my copies of the Watchtower. I read my Catholic Answers Bible, and I read my books that I have that are short fiction books. Iam self-employed, so I always have to come to the office at my apartment to get on the free computer which has a DSL connection.

I think that there are something that I have come to believe about JWs. I pray for the JWs everyday, because they are brainwashed. The JWs are a well-meaning group, but they proseletyze and they try to steal cradle Catholics away from the faith.

Who was the JW religion founded by? What are their doctrines and what exactly is it that they do believe? Why are their buildings blacked out? Any (name removed by moderator)ut would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

It’s not so much what they believe but, what they don’t believe.

They deny the unicity and triunicity of God. That is, Jesus Christ is the Son of God but not God Himself. They deny the Divinity of Jesus in that way.

This article alone, makes them “non-christians” and more of a cult than anything else. Very akin to the Mormons who also deny the Divinity of Jesus in the same way.

Both Mormons and JW’s fancy themselves to be called “christians” but it is just for the generic namesake and not the deeper implications of the term…that would really make them protestant christians which they are not.

Baptists, Pentecostal, Evangelicals and so forth…are christians- protestants but christians because they do accept and believe in the Divinity of Jesus and the triunicity of God as 3 persons, One God.

 

[mab23]

Charles Taze Russell is the one who founded the JW’s. Charles lost his faith as a Congregationalist, and adopted the “Adventists” into his new founded belief’s. Predicted the end of the world and it did not come to pass.

A lawyer Joseph F.Rutherford succeeded Charles Russell after he was released from Jail for sedition during World War I, and it was later Judge Rutherford who changed the name Russellites to Jehovah Witnesses in 1931.

JW’s are big on millennial doctrines, and the great Armageddon war.

JW’s opposed blood transfusions, business, Catholics, Christmas trees, the doctrines of Hell and immortality, flag saluting, higher education, liquor, lodges, Protestants, public office, military service, movies, Mother’s Day, Trinity, voting, YMCA, womens rights, birthdays just to mention a few.

JW’s inactivate or associate members. Everyone is expected to devote many hours a month to door to door preaching, except the blind and the lame.

Watch Tower end of the World predictions; 1914, 1918, 1925, 1941, and only the last generation of people alive from 1941 have passed away the end will come “for sure”? But they don’t make a prediction anymore after 1975.

What is interesting the ACLU supported their liberties and won many of their court cases, then the JW’s labeled the ACLU an agent of the devil. (See “Revised edition Seperated Brethren”, by William J. Whalen.)

sounds like they are opposed to just about everything

 

[Jordan719]

A JW called me several months ago and we have conversed weekly until last week. Talking with this woman is akin to talking to my seven year old; no logic involved at all. She constantly says “reason with me”, yet has no clue what reason is.
I pray for her daily, but her ignorance of scripture and refusal to read anything other than watchtower approved material blinds her from knowing the truth.
Talking with her about scripture is nerve racking to say the least. Whenever a particular doctrine of the JW is torn to pieces by scripture, she changes the subject to something different.

 

[Regardless]

Wow. I Have logged on again after a few days and I can not count the number of posts rallying to debunk my comments. Too many to try and answer properly.
I must be ridiculously wrong in my JW induced thinking. I was trying to use logic, scriptures and scholarly quotes. Maybe my logic is sadly lacking.

Certainly, there is little point in my replying to each and every post. I have no faith anyone will say: “Oh – actually that does make sense. I will change my point of view now.”

Very well. Carry on. - And Jehovah’s Witnesses will continue to preach throughout the world and increase by hundreds of thousands each year while the world continues to spiral toward it’s end. I guess we will all see what the truth is eventually.

All the best comrades! Be careful of human traditions and thinking. Keep your faith in God and remember his inspired word is what we have been given to understand him. Do please listen to all of it, and not just favourite scriptures.

Regardless.

 

[CoRedeemer]

I think a lot of Jehovah’s Witnesses are afraid of leaving their religion because of fear of being excluded even if they know how to reason! Man, I have seen members of the Jehovah’s witnesses going home disappointed because I had told them the truth. They go home very confused about their beliefs. Also another fear which they have is losing their job, or being descrimated, or are afraid that if they leave they might find themselves around worse people in the world, so they say to themselves, “Hey, I’ll stay for safety sake!” That’s how they unfortunately think.

It doesn’t matter what preaching skills you have or how well literate you are with scripture, because in the end they are afraid to convert, they are afraid to change, but, it is well worth trying and not giving up on them, because their have been a lot of Jehovah’s Witnesses converting to the Catholic faith – thanks to people who are willing to share their Catholic faith.

:

 

[CoRedeemer]

Wow. I Have logged on again after a few days and I can not count the number of posts rallying to debunk my comments. Too many to try and answer properly.
I must be ridiculously wrong in my JW induced thinking. I was trying to use logic, scriptures and scholarly quotes. Maybe my logic is sadly lacking.

Certainly, there is little point in my replying to each and every post. I have no faith anyone will say: “Oh – actually that does make sense. I will change my point of view now.”

Very well. Carry on. - And Jehovah’s Witnesses will continue to preach throughout the world and increase by hundreds of thousands each year while the world continues to spiral toward it’s end. I guess we will all see what the truth is eventually.

All the best comrades! Be careful of human traditions and thinking. Keep your faith in God and remember his inspired word is what we have been given to understand him. Do please listen to all of it, and not just favourite scriptures.

Regardless.

Geez, Regardless, how long is it taking you to answer that last question of my which I had sent to you concerning Revelation 6:9-11?

Have you thought about the garment in Revelation 6:9-11 and how do they receive it? And why do they receive it? And who receives it? And why were they told to wait until their brothers and sisters would join them if there is no life after death, so why tell them to “Wait!”? Likewise why tell them to wait if there is no life after death? If there is no life after death then why tell them to wait and put on coat or white garment?

Do they go to Target to purchase this garment? And do they wear it after they have died?

 

[adf417]

Wow. I Have logged on again after a few days and I can not count the number of posts rallying to debunk my comments. Too many to try and answer properly.
I must be ridiculously wrong in my JW induced thinking. I was trying to use logic, scriptures and scholarly quotes. Maybe my logic is sadly lacking.

Certainly, there is little point in my replying to each and every post. I have no faith anyone will say: “Oh – actually that does make sense. I will change my point of view now.”

Very well. Carry on. - And Jehovah’s Witnesses will continue to preach throughout the world and increase by hundreds of thousands each year while the world continues to spiral toward it’s end. I guess we will all see what the truth is eventually.

All the best comrades! Be careful of human traditions and thinking. Keep your faith in God and remember his inspired word is what we have been given to understand him. Do please listen to all of it, and not just favourite scriptures.

Regardless.

Greetings Regardless, again may the lord continue to be with you always…

I apologize for the zealousness of me and my brothers to defend our faith as there is much to discuss based on your posts and our understanding of your beliefs. I hope you will accept this apology and reconsider reengaging into this thread. If your beliefs are true I can assure we all want to be a part of it. As well, if our beliefs are true I’m sure you want to be in the truth. Either way, we owe it to God to defend the truth even if it seems too overwhelming at times, no?

This CAF format allows us to take our time, read, reflect, research, and respond. There is no time limit on your responses as I assumed you have been away for a while and have been waiting patiently. BTW I don’t think there is a rule you must engage everyone in the thread.

God Bless!!

 

[PRmerger]

Wow. I Have logged on again after a few days and I can not count the number of posts rallying to debunk my comments. Too many to try and answer properly.
I must be ridiculously wrong in my JW induced thinking. I was trying to use logic, scriptures and scholarly quotes. Maybe my logic is sadly lacking.

Certainly, there is little point in my replying to each and every post. I have no faith anyone will say: “Oh – actually that does make sense. I will change my point of view now.”

Very well. Carry on. - And Jehovah’s Witnesses will continue to preach throughout the world and increase by hundreds of thousands each year while the world continues to spiral toward it’s end. I guess we will all see what the truth is eventually.

All the best comrades! Be careful of human traditions and thinking. Keep your faith in God and remember his inspired word is what we have been given to understand him. Do please listen to all of it, and not just favourite scriptures.

Regardless.

Sadly, this seems to be the* modus operandi* of all the JWs I’ve ever encountered on this forum.

Not a one stays very long to discuss.

When it gets to the point where Catholics are asking some very, very good questions…and the JW realizes that his responses are inadequate,

<poof!>

JW disappears.

Sigh.

 

[Riddle_me_this]

Don’t even consider “joining” the Jehovahs Witnesses to get your friend back! They are a diabolical organization that has corrupted the Bible. They have been adding, removing and watering down scripture verses for many years now. Their most vile stance is to deny the deity of Christ. Basically Jesus was not God. Just a perfect man who died for the sins of the world. There is not enough room here to cover many verses that you can present to them but I will give some.

They changed Col 2:9 from “in him dwells the fullness of the God head bodily” to “In him dwells the divine quality”. Remember they are always trying to make Jesus just a man, or as they believe previously an angel.
Another verse they try to trip you up with is Col 1:15 where they say Jesus is the firstborn over all creation as if he was a created being. First born does not always mean the first one born in the bible. Jesse was the last born son of David yet he was called the firstborn. Why? Because firstborn can mean preeminent one, surpassing all.
A great verse is Acts20:28-“God bought the church with his own blood.”
Jesus said in John 8:58 “Before Abraham was, I AM.” Same words in the Greek that God said the Moses.
They may have gotten around to changing more verses.
Ask them how many Greek scholars support their version (the New World Translation) of the bible. I think they have two or three. Not exactly supportive. Pray. If you need more help PM me.

I hate to interupt your brainwashed babble but your impression of their bible translation is not everyones.

A 2003 study by Jason BeDuhn, associate professor of religious studies at Northern Arizona University in the United States, of nine of “the Bibles most widely in use in the English-speaking world,” including the New American Bible, The King James Bible and The New International Version, examined several New Testament passages in which “bias is most likely to interfere with translation.” For each passage, he compared the Greek text with the renderings of each English translation, and looked for biased attempts to change the meaning. BeDuhn reported that the New World Translation was “not bias free”, but emerged “as the most accurate of the translations compared”, and thus a “remarkably good translation”, adding that “most of the differences are due to the greater accuracy of the NW as a literal, conservative translation”. BeDuhn said the introduction of the name “Jehovah” into the New Testament 237 times was “not accurate translation by the most basic principle of accuracy”, and that it “violate accuracy in favor of denominationally preferred expressions for God”, adding that for the NWT to gain wider acceptance and prove its worth its translators might have to abandon the use of “Jehovah” in the New Testament.[61]

Unitarian theologian Charles Francis Potter stated about the NWT: “Apart from a few semantic peculiarities like translating the Greek word stauros, as “stake” instead of “cross”, and the often startling use of the colloquial and the vernacular, the anonymous translators have certainly rendered the best manuscript texts, both Greek and Hebrew, with scholarly ability and acumen.”[69]

Religion writer and editor Alexander Thomson said of the NWT: “The translation is evidently the work of skilled and clever scholars, who have sought to bring out as much of the true sense of the Greek text as the English language is capable of expressing. … We heartily recommend the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, published in 1950 by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society.”[70]

Thomas Winter, an instructor of Greek at the University of Nebraska, considered the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures to be a “highly useful aid toward the mastery of koine (and classical) Greek,” adding that the translation “is thoroughly up-to-date and consistently accurate.”

Just to name a few.

 

[Riddle_me_this]

I think a lot of Jehovah’s Witnesses are afraid of leaving their religion because of fear of being excluded even if they know how to reason! Man, I have seen members of the Jehovah’s witnesses going home disappointed because I had told them the truth. They go home very confused about their beliefs. Also another fear which they have is losing their job, or being descrimated, or are afraid that if they leave they might find themselves around worse people in the world, so they say to themselves, “Hey, I’ll stay for safety sake!” That’s how they unfortunately think.

It doesn’t matter what preaching skills you have or how well literate you are with scripture, because in the end they are afraid to convert, they are afraid to change, but, it is well worth trying and not giving up on them, because their have been a lot of Jehovah’s Witnesses converting to the Catholic faith – thanks to people who are willing to share their Catholic faith.

:

So why don’t you convert? Are you afraid? Your logic is definitely concrete my friend, how could anyone argue with such intellect. Hehehehe hahaha I made a funny!

 

[Riddle_me_this]

Charles Taze Russell is the one who founded the JW’s. Charles lost his faith as a Congregationalist, and adopted the “Adventists” into his new founded belief’s. Predicted the end of the world and it did not come to pass.

A lawyer Joseph F.Rutherford succeeded Charles Russell after he was released from Jail for sedition during World War I, and it was later Judge Rutherford who changed the name Russellites to Jehovah Witnesses in 1931.

JW’s are big on millennial doctrines, and the great Armageddon war.

JW’s opposed blood transfusions, business, Catholics, Christmas trees, the doctrines of Hell and immortality, flag saluting, higher education, liquor, lodges, Protestants, public office, military service, movies, Mother’s Day, Trinity, voting, YMCA, womens rights, birthdays just to mention a few.

JW’s inactivate or associate members. Everyone is expected to devote many hours a month to door to door preaching, except the blind and the lame.

Watch Tower end of the World predictions; 1914, 1918, 1925, 1941, and only the last generation of people alive from 1941 have passed away the end will come “for sure”? But they don’t make a prediction anymore after 1975.

What is interesting the ACLU supported their liberties and won many of their court cases, then the JW’s labeled the ACLU an agent of the devil. (See “Revised edition Seperated Brethren”, by William J. Whalen.)

Hmm weird, I go over to my friends house all the time for a beer and he is a JW. I asked him about what you said and he said, “Jesus turned water to wine for a wedding and Paul told Timothy that wine was good for the stomach so why is it bad for us to drink it?” He also mentioned that David drank wine, Lot drank wine, Noah drank wine and most of the Jews including Jesus drank wine.

He is very easy going and doesn’t push his faith on me but doesn’t mind talking to me about the bible if I have any questions. I too had a lot of misinformation regarding the JW’s which he thought was pretty funny but wasn’t offended or anything. He said people are always making up weird stuff about Jehovah’s Witnesses but you can’t get excited about it or you let their ignorance affect you.

He said that JW’s are a lot like scientists. They are constantly seeking knowledge based on the facts available. Sometimes new facts come to light that make it necessary to adjust details of their beliefs and refine them. They don’t believe in traditions and feel it is necessary to grow as your knowledge does. That makes sense to me because they are a relatively new religion and are studying the scriptures in depth in order to uncover truths that have been hidden over the centuries.

He said that new scrolls would be revealed and new knowledge would be given at the end of days and that they are constantly seeking the truth. If they find out a belief that they had contradicts the scriptures they let it go. This includes the celebration of pagan holidays (look up Christmas or Easter on google and you will find out where they originate) which they used to celebrate but no longer do. They also don’t allow smoking which they used to do or the consumption of illegal drugs. They shun all immorality including pornography.

He said that most religions have to change somewhat as new infomation comes to light but for some reason JW’s are ridiculed for this. They believe that because of the signs of the times we are at the end of times but I think most religions believe that don’t they?

 

[Riddle_me_this]

Sadly, this seems to be the* modus operandi* of all the JWs I’ve ever encountered on this forum.

Not a one stays very long to discuss.

When it gets to the point where Catholics are asking some very, very good questions…and the JW realizes that his responses are inadequate,

<poof!>

JW disappears.

Sigh.

JW’s do provide very interesting arguments.

I was talking to them about the Trinity and I got this explanation (paraphrased):

They said that they would rather be safe than sorry. When I asked them what that meant they said this,

(John 17:1-5) 17 Jesus spoke these things, and, raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come; glorify your son, that your son may glorify you, 2according as you have given him authority over all flesh, that, as regards the whole [number] whom you have given him, he may give them everlasting life. 3This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. 4I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. 5So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.

(Matthew 10:32, 33) 32*“Everyone, then, that confesses union with me before men, I will also confess union with him before my Father who is in the heavens; 33but whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens..*.

(Mark 10:35-40) 35And James and John, the two sons of Zeb′e·dee, stepped up to him and said to him: “Teacher, we want you to do for us whatever it is we ask you for.” 36He said to them: “What do YOU want me to do for YOU?” 37They said to him: “Grant us to sit down, one at your right hand and one at your left, in your glory.” 38But Jesus said to them: “YOU do not know what YOU are asking for. Are YOU able to drink the cup which I am drinking, or to be baptized with the baptism with which I am being baptized?” 39They said to him: “We are able.” At that Jesus said to them: “The cup I am drinking YOU will drink, and with the baptism with which I am being baptized YOU will be baptized. 40However, this sitting down at my right or at my left is not mine to give, but it belongs to those for whom it has been prepared.”

(Luke 22:39-44) 39On going out he went as customarily to the Mount of Olives; and the disciples also followed him. 40Having come to the place he said to them: “Carry on prayer, that YOU do not enter into temptation.” 41And he himself drew away from them about a stone’s throw, and bent his knees and began to pray, 42saying: “Father, if you wish, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, let, not my will, but yours take place.” 43Then an angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44But getting into an agony he continued praying more earnestly; and his sweat became as drops of blood falling to the ground.

(John 14:12, 13) 12Most truly I say to YOU, He that exercises faith in me, that one also will do the works that I do; and he will do works greater than these, because I am going my way to the Father. 13Also, whatever it is that YOU ask in my name, I will do this, in order that the Father may be glorified in connection with the Son.

They said based on these scriptures (which were just a few that he gave me) it gives the impression that Almighty God is greater than Jesus. They are both God’s but one is in subjection to the other. Jesus tells us to pray to God through him. This being the case it would be safer to view them as separate instead of replacing God with Jesus altogether. That would be very dangerous. They feel that God would forgive the confusion of the God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit being different personages given the above scriptures but he would not forgive being completely replaced by his son. Jesus tells us to pray regarding his Father’s name but today’s religions try and completey hide his name. They say no matter how you look at it YHWH does not translate to Jesus.

 

[PRmerger]

JW’s do provide very interesting arguments.

I was talking to them about the Trinity and I got this explanation (paraphrased):

They said that they would rather be safe than sorry. When I asked them what that meant they said this,

(John 17:1-5) 17 Jesus spoke these things, and, raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come; glorify your son, that your son may glorify you, 2according as you have given him authority over all flesh, that, as regards the whole [number] whom you have given him, he may give them everlasting life. 3This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. 4I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. 5So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.

(Matthew 10:32, 33) 32*“Everyone, then, that confesses union with me before men, I will also confess union with him before my Father who is in the heavens; 33but whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens..*.

(Mark 10:35-40) 35And James and John, the two sons of Zeb′e·dee, stepped up to him and said to him: “Teacher, we want you to do for us whatever it is we ask you for.” 36He said to them: “What do YOU want me to do for YOU?” 37They said to him: “Grant us to sit down, one at your right hand and one at your left, in your glory.” 38But Jesus said to them: “YOU do not know what YOU are asking for. Are YOU able to drink the cup which I am drinking, or to be baptized with the baptism with which I am being baptized?” 39They said to him: “We are able.” At that Jesus said to them: “The cup I am drinking YOU will drink, and with the baptism with which I am being baptized YOU will be baptized. 40However, this sitting down at my right or at my left is not mine to give, but it belongs to those for whom it has been prepared.”

(Luke 22:39-44) 39On going out he went as customarily to the Mount of Olives; and the disciples also followed him. 40Having come to the place he said to them: “Carry on prayer, that YOU do not enter into temptation.” 41And he himself drew away from them about a stone’s throw, and bent his knees and began to pray, 42saying: “Father, if you wish, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, let, not my will, but yours take place.” 43Then an angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44But getting into an agony he continued praying more earnestly; and his sweat became as drops of blood falling to the ground.

(John 14:12, 13) 12Most truly I say to YOU, He that exercises faith in me, that one also will do the works that I do; and he will do works greater than these, because I am going my way to the Father. 13Also, whatever it is that YOU ask in my name, I will do this, in order that the Father may be glorified in connection with the Son.

They said based on these scriptures (which were just a few that he gave me) it gives the impression that Almighty God is greater than Jesus. They are both God’s but one is in subjection to the other. Jesus tells us to pray to God through him. This being the case it would be safer to view them as separate instead of replacing God with Jesus altogether. That would be very dangerous. They feel that God would forgive the confusion of the God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit being different personages given the above scriptures but he would not forgive being completely replaced by his son. Jesus tells us to pray regarding his Father’s name but today’s religions try and completey hide his name. They say no matter how you look at it YHWH does not translate to Jesus.

The fact is, Riddle, that the JWs would not know that any of these verses are theopneustos, were it not for the Catholic Church which discerned for them that Jesus really did say these words.

It is ONLY through the Catholic Church that they know that the Gospel of Mark is inspired but that the Gospel of Thomas is not.

So, it’s curious that they do not acknowledge submission to the authority of the CC, when it’s clear that they tacitly submit to her ability to reveal the Word of God for them.

 

[PRmerger]

JW’s do provide very interesting arguments.

I was talking to them about the Trinity and I got this explanation (paraphrased):

Interesting.

Have you ever been to a Kingdom Hall, Riddle?

 

[adf417]

I hate to interupt your brainwashed babble but your impression of their bible translation is not everyones.

A 2003 study by Jason BeDuhn, associate professor of religious studies at Northern Arizona University in the United States, of nine of “the Bibles most widely in use in the English-speaking world,” including the New American Bible, The King James Bible and The New International Version, examined several New Testament passages in which “bias is most likely to interfere with translation.” For each passage, he compared the Greek text with the renderings of each English translation, and looked for biased attempts to change the meaning. BeDuhn reported that the New World Translation was “not bias free”, but emerged “as the most accurate of the translations compared”, and thus a “remarkably good translation”, adding that “most of the differences are due to the greater accuracy of the NW as a literal, conservative translation”. BeDuhn said the introduction of the name “Jehovah” into the New Testament 237 times was “not accurate translation by the most basic principle of accuracy”, and that it “violate accuracy in favor of denominationally preferred expressions for God”, adding that for the NWT to gain wider acceptance and prove its worth its translators might have to abandon the use of “Jehovah” in the New Testament.[61]

Unitarian theologian Charles Francis Potter stated about the NWT: “Apart from a few semantic peculiarities like translating the Greek word stauros, as “stake” instead of “cross”, and the often startling use of the colloquial and the vernacular, the anonymous translators have certainly rendered the best manuscript texts, both Greek and Hebrew, with scholarly ability and acumen.”[69]

Religion writer and editor Alexander Thomson said of the NWT: “The translation is evidently the work of skilled and clever scholars, who have sought to bring out as much of the true sense of the Greek text as the English language is capable of expressing. … We heartily recommend the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, published in 1950 by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society.”[70]

Thomas Winter, an instructor of Greek at the University of Nebraska, considered the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures to be a “highly useful aid toward the mastery of koine (and classical) Greek,” adding that the translation “is thoroughly up-to-date and consistently accurate.”

Just to name a few.

Riddle,

It’s probably a good thing these guys were not part of the councils Carthage & Hippo – no telling what the cannon would have looked like. But then again, that statement might be blasphemous as we know the cannon was inspired - that is inspired by the Catholic Church who understood quit well at the time what the scriptures said w/ no translation needed.

I’m not sure why anyone, who considers themself a Christian, would quote from Jason BeDuhn. You can read my earlier post on this. It sure seems to disqualify any solid Christian stance. As far as the other guys - who are they and how can they miss this…

The Greek words for worship in the NT is “proskyneo” and “sebo”. Together they are used 70 times in the KJV. In the NWT when referring to God this word is translated as “worship” 100% of the time. The same word, when referring to Jesus translate to “obeisance” (honor) 100% of the time. Even in the passages where there is a double action reference like Mt 2:11 *…they saw the young child with Mary its mother, and, falling down, they did obeisance to it [him]*NWT. No other translation I looked at, nine in all, had this much consistent bias.

So if JWs believe that bowing, prostrating or kneeling down to someone or something is worshiping that person/object, then all, or at least some, of the references to Jesus should have been translated as “worship”. If they believe all the people did not actually worship Jesus then why should they have a problem with me saluting the flag, having a cross on my wall, or bowing to the pope?

Peace and blessings to you!!!

 

[DTrent]

Please see jw.org for accurate answers to your q’s & to find out exactly what JW’s believe and why.
A good place to start is the Bible itself. Also the mags you were given would have helped answer some of your q’s too.
Since your gf (or former gf) is just beginning to study the Bible with JW’s she’ll only be able to answer SOME of your q’s. But that’s another good start.
Give her some more time to gain more Bible knowledge.

 

[PRmerger]

A good place to start is the Bible itself.

But there are tens of thousands of different Christian denominations, each reading the same verses in the Bible, and coming up with differing–and sometimes contrary understandings.

How does a seeker know that the JW’s interpretation is the correct one?

Does the JW organization claim to be given the charism of infallibility?

 

[Matt_Guitar_Man]

After reading the threads from the start all the way through, I have found this disscusion very interesting. I have had a reasnable amount of experiance with those who prescribe to the teachings of the Watch Tower Society as my wifes sister has been a Jehovahs Witness for thirty years and she and her husband have tried very hard to convert me over the last 12 years, and bring me out of the “Apostate Catholic Church” and into the “Truth”.
As a result of this I have made myself cognisant with the littreture of the society form Charles Taze Russell’s “Studies in the Scriptures”, Rutherfords writtings and theology,
the publishers hand book “Reasoning from the Scriptures” and just about everything in between.
Like a lot of different groups the Watch Tower Society claim to follow the word of God as found in the Bible and are bassicaly litteralists.
With this in mind I have a few Scriptures that I like to read to Jehovahs wittnesses about Christs Divinity or if you like so we dont become confused, about Christ being God.
I like to read these Scriptures out of context as a narrative ( I know this is not good biblical exergee).
I will do these Scriptures one at a time and wait for comments on them by any intereted person.
The first is the very first words of the Bible.
Gen 1:1
“In the begining God made the heavens and the earth”
According to Watch Tower Theology these very first words of Gods word can not be taken littraly and need interpritation. To follow WTS theology this first verse should read either " In the begining God made Michael the Arc Angle". or “In the begining Michael the Arc Angel made the heavens and the earth”.
This first verse of the Bible is a cornerstone to the faith and belief in it as it stands protects us from many forms of error such as the Platonic Philosophy of the one all encomposing universal force creating lessor “god’s” to create the universe etc.
I dont know about anyone else out there but a group claiming to follow the Bible that need to do a quite extensive interpritation to fit the very first verse of the Bible into there teaching
start on the back foot with me and by thier own theology have a very large question mark over them.
Comments Please…

 

[Matt_Guitar_Man]

I Haven’t found it yet, but look what I did find: (I have done the underlining)

Quote…
*Translating John 1:1: The Coptic Evidence
(Solomon Landers, September 2006)

It is becoming well-known that the primary Coptic translations of John 1:1c – the
Sahidic, the proto-Bohairic, and the Bohairic – do not render it “the Word was
God,” as is common in many English versions, but “the Word was a god,”* found
notably in the New World Translation.
The significance of this is remarkable. First, the Coptic versions precede the New
World Translation by some 1,700 years, and are part of the corpus of ancient textual
witnesses to the Gospel of John. Second, the Coptic versions were produced at a
time when the Koine Greek of the Christian Greek Scriptures was still a living
language whose finer nuances could be understood by the Coptic translators, so
much so that many Greek words are left untranslated in the Coptic texts. Third,
the Coptic versions do not show the influence of later interpretations of Christology
fostered by the church councils of the 4th and 5th centuries CE.
End of quote…

Interesting?

Hi Regardless,
I have also read the new world translation greek interliner which gives an extensive review of the Coptic manuscripts that contain the indefinet artical in Jn1:1.
However one can’t help but think that this is a red herring as the Arian controversy begun in the Coptic church and just as today sectarrian groups produce their own translations to suite thier particular bias why wouldn’t sectarian groups in the 4th century do the same.

 

[T_More]

Hi Regardless,
I have also read the new world translation greek interliner which gives an extensive review of the Coptic manuscripts that contain the indefinet artical in Jn1:1.
However one can’t help but think that this is a red herring as the Arian controversy begun in the Coptic church and just as today sectarrian groups produce their own translations to suite thier particular bias why wouldn’t sectarian groups in the 4th century do the same.

Let us not forget, the Coptics also have more books in their OT than the JW’s do, but they won’t talk about that. So, they’ll use them when they agree, discard them when they don’t. The typical JW MO…