What do they (Islamic terrorists) want?

[cestusdei]

www.foxnews.com

The lead article is on the goals of the Islamic terrorists. They are very simple:

1. Seizing Jerusalem and subjugation of Christendom.
2. Destruction of the White House and by extension the USA.

They are delighted at the election results and consider it a sign of American cowardice. They are heartened by the democrats win. they know that the liberals and democrats will essentially surrender. Given how they treat Christians over there we can have a general idea of what is in store for us. There is now no excuse to claim we don’t know what they want or that we can “negotiate” with them.

 

[mary_bobo]

www.foxnews.com

The lead article is on the goals of the Islamic terrorists. They are very simple:

1. Seizing Jerusalem and subjugation of Christendom.
2. Destruction of the White House and by extension the USA.

They are delighted at the election results and consider it a sign of American cowardice. They are heartened by the democrats win. they know that the liberals and democrats will essentially surrender. Given how they treat Christians over there we can have a general idea of what is in store for us. There is now no excuse to claim we don’t know what they want or that we can “negotiate” with them.

Remember when reporter, Steve Centani, was captured? He did not speak Arabic but his cameraman did. The terrorists planned to kill Centani, but toward the end of his captivity, they told him if he would convert to Islam, they would let him go. He said he converted. He was released. Think this gives one another reason to be concerned.

 

[FillTheVoid]

They want to behead you and your family.

It’s a simple as that.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Knowing what they want is one thing. But I think it would be more important to figure out just where do they get their teachings/inspiration.

This so-called “war on terror” is taking too long. We’re obviously not getting to the source of the terrorism.

 

[rtconstant]

Charlie I think has cut to the root of matter. The question isn’t so much what they want. Terrorist groups are relatively clear on that. Each group wants to control the world. They justify this ambition by the concept that they will convert the whole of the earth to Islam thus giving their soldiers the feeling that any means will justify the ends since we’ll all be better off when we’re Muslim anyway.

What is confusing too the Western mind though is how that people who here would be considered nothing more than gangsters, thugs and sociopaths end up at the head of such relatively powerful organizations and religious institutions.

I think the answer to that is that they understand their people and know how to take advantage of them. The vast majority of the fighters in these extremist groups are simple folk. These are farmers and peasants. Under normal circumstances they would be unassuming and gentle. However, due to the extreme poverty and powerlessness that these people experience they are easy to tempt with any perception that they can take “control” of the world around them.

By giving these people targets to blame and attack for their conditions they feel impowered. By appealing to the primitive spirituality of these people they make them feel holy and loved by God. By feeding and educating the children of these people they appear to be compassionate and heroic.

Under these circumstances it is easy to see why that they would believe the leaders of these groups over foreign and frightening powers.

Of course all of that being said, it still doesn’t explain what responces would be appropriate to alleviate the situation. What is even more diconcerting is the fact that apparently even moderate minded Muslims don’t seem to know.

I have become friends with many Muslims from various nations and most of them seem to think we should either nuke the whole region and be done with it or have no idea where to even start. Of course neither of these scenarios are desirable ones. It does however bother me that even those from the area and religion seem to be at as big of a loss as we are.

The situation is bad and it is dangerous and it obviously must be delt with. Yet how?

 

[cestusdei]

The men who did 911 were not poor peasants. They were middle class, well educated, and had lived here. Where do they get their ideas? Very simple. The quran and the life of Muhammed. This is just the latest blossoming of a war began by Muhammed and continued ever since. What do we need to do? Win. How? By not giving up and taking the fight to them. This should be combined with countering their propaganda. In the end if the “moderate” Muslims stop their tacit support of the terrorists the war will end. If they don’t then we must keep up the pressure until they do. In that case many will die. But that is what war is. So we fight until we win.

 

[rtconstant]

So I take it you go with the “Nuke’em” approach? My Afgan and Uzbek buddies would agree with you. While I can’t deny the practicality of a Total War scenario I really don’t want to face God with that one. Still in the game of thrones it is a viable position.

Also a correction, moderate Muslims don’t support terrorists. In fact most are living in the the Americas, Europe or Australia and are completely secular. The few left in the old country are usually too terrified to do or say much. So don’t expect much from putting “pressure” on them. The only ones that can make much of difference are the ones who still live in the region and unfortunately we have not demonstrated to them that we can keep them safe.

 

[Loginus]

So I take it you go with the “Nuke’em” approach? My Afgan and Uzbek buddies would agree with you. While I can’t deny the practicality of a Total War scenario I really don’t want to face God with that one. Still in the game of thrones it is a viable position.

Also a correction, moderate Muslims don’t support terrorists. In fact most are living in the the Americas, Europe or Australia and are completely secular. The few left in the old country are usually too terrified to do or say much. So don’t expect much from putting “pressure” on them. The only ones that can make much of difference are the ones who still live in the region and unfortunately we have not demonstrated to them that we can keep them safe.

An excellent conclusion if I may say.

I personally think nuking the area is definatly what you do not want. This new brand of Terrorists do want world dominance in the long term, but their moethod for achieving that is very different from past terrorists.
The attacks on 9/11 did little to cripple the US or the West aside from hurt them economically and even then it was so-so and easily recoverable. By attacking a non-military target they gained no tactical advantage either. Instead, they were aimed to spread awareness of who they are and more importantly WHAT they are, and that is Muslim.

These terrorists want ppl to distrust and eventually hate all Muslims and possibily other minorities. By alienating them, they can be recruited by terrorist cells and brainwashed into their idelogy much easier.

This is why I strongly disagree with any form of discrimination agaisnt the Muslim ppl. The situation is polarizing. Its becoming a with us or agaisnt us situation. By propegating the idea that Muslims are all evil all we are doing is insuring future terrorists by forcing peaceful Muslims to pick a side. Either to give up their faith and identity and kill their misguided brothers never fully gaining the trust and acceptance of their home country, or fall and join the terrorist forces. We are leaving no middle-ground

Instead, I think by simply disproving the lies of these evil leaders we could effectively halt the movement and quell the hate and dmg already done by both sides

 

[GregoryPalamas]

I’m very impressed by the level of this conversation. Not that I’m a moderator but thus far this is about the most productive and encouraging start I’ve ever seen.

My experience parallels what has been said thus far. Rtconstant is on the money from my experience. Virtually every “moderate” Muslim I know would not object to destroying every country that harbors Islamic terrorists and are as afraid of them as we are. However, like others have said, I would not wish to meet my maker with that blood on my hands.

Have we really exhausted all of the alternatives in bringing Christ into these situations? Yes, I know, many have died in their efforts on behalf of His Church and His message. It seems that is what will happen to many who offer the message of the Prince of Peace to any group conditioned to hostility. But is there really an alternative?

CDL

 

[davy39]

www.foxnews.com

The lead article is on the goals of the Islamic terrorists. They are very simple:

1. Seizing Jerusalem and subjugation of Christendom.
2. Destruction of the White House and by extension the USA.

They are delighted at the election results and consider it a sign of American cowardice. They are heartened by the democrats win. they know that the liberals and democrats will essentially surrender. Given how they treat Christians over there we can have a general idea of what is in store for us. There is now no excuse to claim we don’t know what they want or that we can “negotiate” with them.

And they are right, too. The democrats have already brought in George McGovern to talk to. He has recommended a phased withdrawl starting in Dec. of this year, and ending in complete withdrawl by next June. In other words, cut and run, just like Viet-Nam. So the terrorists will bide their time, knowing that we will be gone soon. If you think that there has been a blood bath in Iraq so far, wait until we leave.

 

[1ke]

They want the entire planet ruled by Islamic Law and domination over, and eventual extermination of, all other religions and peoples.

I highly recommend the book “Politically Incorrect Guide To Islam and The Crusades” for those who believe Islam is a “religion of peace” and can coexist with other religions.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I am no expert, but what little I do know leads me to believe there are a lot of distinctions to be made in all of this.

Many, if not most of the Iranian Mullahs who are in power, are really businessmen more than anything else. They will not risk getting nuked or impoverished, no matter what. But they are very good political poker players and have very large ambitions.

Many, if not most, of the suicide bombers are nut cases or people on the wrong end of the “honor/shame” system that pervades at least Middle Eastern Islam. Remember that the Columbine killers killed themselves and others for no reason at all other than their own nutty fantasies and general hostility to others. You don’t see Nasrallah or Bin Ladin blowing themselves up in order to murder some Israeli schoolchildren. No, indeed. They get the nuts and the “shamed” to do that.

Many, probably most, of the big terrorist leaders are motivated by a lust for power, and not much more. (In Iran, of course, as is seemingly the case in Palestine too, it’s also money.)

Nobody is safe. If a popular leader like King Hussein in Jordan was, had to be watchful against assassination every minute of every day, no one else is safe either. So, if you’re a “moderate muslim” you stay out of “the game” and live with your head down. This makes the establishment of security, other than by ruthless and arbitrary extermination of perceived enemies, exceedingly difficult.

With its traditions of Jihad, Sharia law and dhimmitude, anyone who lusts for power has, in Islamic places, excellent tools at hand for the elimination of the opposition and the domination of the remainder, far beyond what would be available to some western dictator.

It always puts me to mind of L.A. with a police force of 20 ill-trained and ill-armed men. The place would be totally dominated by the gangs, and always at war.

Islamic terrorism is like a horrid combination of Bolshevik methodology, huge financial resources, gang mentality and just plain craziness that exists among some in all societies, all justified by an interpretation of a religion that can lend itself to the employment of the very worst methodologies and instincts of mankind.

In my opinion, whatever it’s worth, the best thing the West could do is have so many soldiers and so many special force units in Iraq that a mouse couldn’t move without them knowing it and stepping on the mouse. After years and years of that, just maybe non-extremists would eventually decide that the extremists don’t really rule the universe after all. Certainly, many Iraqis would resent foreign occupation and particularly by “infidels”. But in another part of their minds, they would welcome the peace it would bring. This is incredibly “politically incorrect”, but 18th century India was a nightmare of murder, despotism and warfare until the Brits just simply sat on them long enough to teach them other ways, paying no attention to their nationalistic or regional aspirations or their religious antipathies. I will get jumped on for saying this, but the big problem with western colonialism was that it didn’t last long enough in most places. You can’t call it colonialism now, but there is just no pacifier quite as effective as giving a people no alternative but to live peacefully. And overwhelming, patient force gives no alternative. But, as the demise of colonialism (and the recent Democrat victory) proved, the west no longer has the appetite to supply it.

 

[cestusdei]

Maybe that is what I am getting at. After WWII the Japanese and Germans had no illusions that they were anything other then the losers. If we keep the pressure on until they finally realize they can’t win then we will win. In other words we have to have the intestinal fortitude to actually fight for our lives.

 

[srp643]

Knowing what they want is one thing. But I think it would be more important to figure out just where do they get their teachings/inspiration.

This so-called “war on terror” is taking too long. We’re obviously not getting to the source of the terrorism.

I agree Charlie. I think the Pope’s recent commentary that was so offensive to muslims actually hits the source: currently there is no “reason” in the predominant version of islam. A god who has no reasons cannot be known by reason. Their god just “wills” from moment to moment. God is not knowable so they cannot love an unknowable god. Man’s job is to submit and obey. Radical muslims become channels for God’s omnipotence. This has lead to the violence and terrorism. Fruitful dialogue with Islam depends on the restoration of reason in their theology. The Pope showed a lot of intelligence and courage raising this fundamental issue most people are unaware of.

 

[rtconstant]

Maybe that is what I am getting at. After WWII the Japanese and Germans had no illusions that they were anything other then the losers. If we keep the pressure on until they finally realize they can’t win then we will win. In other words we have to have the intestinal fortitude to actually fight for our lives.

No, I get what you’re saying and as I said earlier your point is a valid one. The fact is if a nation is going to use war as a viable option for taking care of a problem then it needs to throw caution to the wind and fight to win. War is only affective if it instills ultimate fear and a totally aversion to violence. Your WWII analogy is apt in this case.

I’m just trying figure out what we can do besides that option. Because if we do push through to win this war with might it will be a victory that few will feel good about.

American military power has grown so far beyond the rest of the world that we have affectively ended conventional warfare. No army in its right mind would dare meet the US head on. Even other first world nations would quickly resort guerilla tactics. As such we’ve pretty much forced our enemies to be “terrorists”. The only way to get at Uncle Sam is to hide in the alley outside his mom’s house and mug her when she comes home from the grocery.

So the only way we can make the same impact as we did in previous wars is too pretty much ignore the terrorist cells and brutally raze the whole region. Now, that would ultimately work. However, are we as Americans willing to concience the willful slaughter of perhaps millions of people most of whom having nothing much to do with any of this?

I’m not pointing that at you cestusdei or anyone else. I get where you’re coming from but I honestly feel that militarily speaking that’s what we have in before us. This is why that I’m trying to figure out a better way of handling this.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

If there was someone who wanted to destroy America and subjugate the whole world, then it was the communist regime of the former USSR. It was defeated despite its powerful army, nuclear power, its powerful KGB and unlimited resources. Now you are telling us that some cave dwellers want to destroy the white House (and by extension the USA) and subjugate Christendom! How strange!

Please consider the following:
How do you justify in the eyes of your people a war of aggression you started based on shameful lies? You say “Iraq is the front in the war on terror”
How do you justify the huge spending (tax money) you are spending to finance the illegal and criminal wars you started? You say “Iraq is the front in the war on terror”
How can you justify the death of your soldiers whom you sent to fight your war which you started by lying to your own people? you say “Iraq is the front in the war on terror” and we are “bringing democracy to that country”
How do you justify your constant shift in motives with which you started you dirty and criminal war with? These are the signs of a liar.
How do you justify your killing directly or indirectly hundred of thousands of people with a war you started on shameful lies? You say “I am protecting America and the American people”
How do you explain that the “terrorists” of today were you close allies yesterday? Sorry I can’t explain that. It is geopolitics, you dumb people cannot understand.
How do you attract more youth into enrolling into your army when the recruitment rates dropped drastically? By turning your war into a crusade.
When will you declare that you have won your war on terror, knowing that terror is not a man you bring to the table to sign a letter of rendition? I will never declare it. That’s the trick which allowed me to go out with my army with the intent to never come back, but occupy the strategic parts of the whole were the Oil is.
How do you justify…How do you explain…?I don’t have to justify to anyone nor explain to anyone. The congress gave me the power of Caesar.

You do all the above by creating an enemy: the “Islamic Terrorists”? The “Islamic terrorists” who cannot even overthrow their own secular governments in their own countries where they can have all the support they need from their own people!.

These “terrorists” must be very dumb indeed. They know America is after them and they give her motive after motive! It was 9/11, then Spain, then Java, then the London Bombings, then Amman in Jordan, then the Attempt to blow up intercontinental flights. Etc.
By the grace of the living God, what did all these abhorrent crimes achieve but give those in power in America the motives they need and when they need them.
What did these abhorrent crimes achieve but hatred towards the Muslims living in Western countries?
What did these abhorrent crimes achieve but give the government in these countries the motive to setup a set of “anti-terrorist” laws by which the real intent is to control immigration? What did these abhorrent crimes achieve but throw the freaking people in those countries into the arms of elite power which did not hesitate to touch the sacred civil liberties of the people?

Note: Don’t consider the above. It is from someone who believes in conspiracy theories.

Salaam.
This is Joseph, who is a Muslim and who strongly condemns the killing of innocent people, whoever is the killer.

 

[Catholic_Mike]

The terrorists planned to kill Centani, but toward the end of his captivity, they told him if he would convert to Islam, they would let him go. He said he converted. He was released. Think this gives one another reason to be concerned.

I think it also gives one another reason to see that they aren’t hateful monsters - they are real people with complicated (and varied) motives and ideas.

 

[birdsong]

I disagree with you on many levels Joseph …… you give such a lengthy response, it is difficult to concentrate on just one of your comments …… but I will say this: it might be possible that you are correct saying it’d be impossible for terrorists to take over the world, as some of them have stated …… however, I think you are very mistaken in dismissing their imperialistic ambitions so easily …… let me elaborate more on this:

The leadership in muslim countries, terrorist organisations, extremists, etc, they know that they’d not survive 10 seconds if they confronted the powers of the west openly …… that’s as obvious and clear as daylight …. So what could move these people to even entertain ideas about bombing Israel and potentially western countries (Lebanon, Iran anyone?)?

Since you believe in conspiracy theories, I will also dare to speculate about their reasons …… well, actually, I think I have more solid evidence than yours, so here it goes: these people, for whatever reason, do not value human life as a lot of people in the west do …. They do not believe in human rights, respect for others, they do not even respect the lives of their own family and relatives …… now, obviously, the question that is begging to be asked is: why do they think like this? Is it coincidence that all these people have been brought up in islam? …. I do not think it is a coincidence …… in short, the indoctrination these people have suffered makes them appreciate death more than life, even their own or their family’s and relatives’ …… in other words, you might be right saying that these people who care not about their own and their families’ lives (let alone everybody else’s’) do not have a chance at ruling the world …. However, there’s no single doubt in my mind that, given the opportunity, they’d be more than happy to bomb and cause disaster in our civilisation …… that alone justifies using drastic measures (if needed) against them and their followers ……

If there was someone who wanted to destroy America and subjugate the whole world, then it was the communist regime of the former USSR. It was defeated despite its powerful army, nuclear power, its powerful KGB and unlimited resources. Now you are telling us that some cave dwellers want to destroy the white House (and by extension the USA) and subjugate Christendom! How strange!

Please consider the following:
How do you justify in the eyes of your people a war of aggression you started based on shameful lies? You say “Iraq is the front in the war on terror”
How do you justify the huge spending (tax money) you are spending to finance the illegal and criminal wars you started? You say “Iraq is the front in the war on terror”
How can you justify the death of your soldiers whom you sent to fight your war which you started by lying to your own people? you say “Iraq is the front in the war on terror” and we are “bringing democracy to that country”
How do you justify your constant shift in motives with which you started you dirty and criminal war with? These are the signs of a liar.
How do you justify your killing directly or indirectly hundred of thousands of people with a war you started on shameful lies? You say “I am protecting America and the American people”
How do you explain that the “terrorists” of today were you close allies yesterday? Sorry I can’t explain that. It is geopolitics, you dumb people cannot understand.
How do you attract more youth into enrolling into your army when the recruitment rates dropped drastically? By turning your war into a crusade.
When will you declare that you have won your war on terror, knowing that terror is not a man you bring to the table to sign a letter of rendition? I will never declare it. That’s the trick which allowed me to go out with my army with the intent to never come back, but occupy the strategic parts of the whole were the Oil is.
How do you justify…How do you explain…?I don’t have to justify to anyone nor explain to anyone. The congress gave me the power of Caesar.

You do all the above by creating an enemy: the “Islamic Terrorists”? The “Islamic terrorists” who cannot even overthrow their own secular governments in their own countries where they can have all the support they need from their own people!.

” laws by which the real intent is to control immigration? What did these abhorrent crimes achieve but throw the freaking people in those countries into the arms of elite power which did not hesitate to touch the sacred civil liberties of the people?

Note: Don’t consider the above. It is from someone who believes in conspiracy theories.

Salaam.
This is Joseph, who is a Muslim and who strongly condemns the killing of innocent people, whoever is the killer.

 

[cestusdei]

If the USA was as evil as they say we would have already leveled Iran and any other place that annoyed us. However, if they do take out an American city and a million of our people what do you think will happen? I think we all know. It is in the Muslims best interest to turn against the terrorists. They need to stop blaming us for everything that goes wrong and look in the mirror. I am open to other options. But the terrorists are gloating over the election and now believe they are going to win. Thank you democrats. You won the election, but possible at the cost of losing the war.

 

[cestusdei]

Joseph, Muslims blame us for everything. When we are attacked and fight back you say it creates terrorists. What are we supposed to do? Just ignore 911? Ain’t gonna happen.

Who creates terrorists? You do. By refusing to face up to the problems in Islam and your own culture. By refusing to protest them and turn them in. By not making their lives miserable by pursuing them wherever they go. By making us the enemy when the real enemy is sipping tea next to you.