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rtconstant
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I have too agree with you cestusdei if were half the monster the terrorists say we are this war would already be over.
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pro_universal
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Talk about chest beating.
As an American, I can say based on a lifetime of experience that Americans greatly exaggerate the power of their own country.
Let’s see…nuking Iran and the middle east would wipe out about half the world’s oil supply, and turn most of the third world (where industrial production happens) radically against the US. That would mean that the source of all this neat military hardware, the economy, would be destroyed. And guess what happens then?
All those Muslims left alive remember who we are, and we don’t have the military to stop the ones that race to rebuild in Southeast Asia, South Asia, and Central Asia. (That’s assuming that Turkey is taken out too…otherwise we’ll have to deal with whatever they can muster as well.)
These fantasies of wiping out the Muslim world are mainly sick, twisted dreams of a Nietzschean America. But on top of the fact that they’re sick, they’re also just plain…well…hate to say it, but just plain dumb.
This is the kind of thinking that got us into Iraq and Afghanistan without a serious plan. That’s why we’re losing. This is also why the IDF was defeated by a bunch of villagers in Lebanon…arrogance is deadly.
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runandsew
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They want to remove the main impediments to the unobstructed spread of Islam through out the world.
Plus they see the evils of the western world, like pornography, abortion, ect. and our military might which dictates world politics.
In other words Nationalism, though they are not from only one country.
Plus they see the evils of the western world, like pornography, abortion, ect. and our military might which dictates world politics.
In other words Nationalism, though they are not from only one country.
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Rodrigo_Bivar
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I don’t think the Israelis were defeated by a bunch of villagers in Lebanon. It was the Hezbollah and their backers who pushed for a settlement. The Israelis got what they went for - a lull in the firing of rockets from Hezbollah, and a clear message for the Lebanese, Syrians and Iranians that Israel will not tolerate Hezbollah shenanigans any more.
Which side walked away largely intact? Israel.
Which side is still licking its wounds? Hezbollah.
The “disproportionate” response had its effect - Southern Lebanon was left in ruins and Hezbollah’s paymasters have been left to pick up the tab.
As for exaggeration of US military strength - may I remind the Muslim that the US took under 2 weeks to destroy the Iraqi military and only 48 days to destroy the Taliban who had fought the Soviets to exhaustion over a few years. Don’t try and push your luck.
Which side walked away largely intact? Israel.
Which side is still licking its wounds? Hezbollah.
The “disproportionate” response had its effect - Southern Lebanon was left in ruins and Hezbollah’s paymasters have been left to pick up the tab.
As for exaggeration of US military strength - may I remind the Muslim that the US took under 2 weeks to destroy the Iraqi military and only 48 days to destroy the Taliban who had fought the Soviets to exhaustion over a few years. Don’t try and push your luck.
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Rodrigo_Bivar
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World industrial production is largely in the US and China, and we know the Chinese are certainly not pro-Islam. The number of Muslims in China has actually declined since the last days of the Qing Dynasty. Islam has been in China for at least a thousand years and the Han Chinese seem largely allergic to it - in fact, they seem to prefer Christianity.
By some estimates there are about 4 times as many Christians as Muslims in China - when a matter to twenty years ago there were hardly any Christians there at all.
Islam has only ever been practised by several Turkic minorities in Western China. There have been many Mohammadan religions throughout Chinese history and every time the Chinese government has severely punished the Mohammadans for their disloyalty. China is not squeamish about squashing Islam or any other dissident groups.
By some estimates there are about 4 times as many Christians as Muslims in China - when a matter to twenty years ago there were hardly any Christians there at all.
Islam has only ever been practised by several Turkic minorities in Western China. There have been many Mohammadan religions throughout Chinese history and every time the Chinese government has severely punished the Mohammadans for their disloyalty. China is not squeamish about squashing Islam or any other dissident groups.
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pro_universal
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If the Israelis got what they wanted, why isn’t anyone else noticing?
The Israelis opposed a settlement, claimed they would destroy hizbullah, and stop the rocket fire. They did not destroy Hizbullah, they didn’t stop the rocket fire, and their units on the ground (elite ones, including the Golani brigade) were overrun and forced to retreat repeatedly. Israel was incapable of holding any important real estate in Lebanon militarily.
Licking its wounds? Hizbullah is now in the process of taking over all of Lebanon. They are much stronger today than they were before the war.
Except that “The tab” is some cheap rockets, international aid is available for most other things. Hizbullah is happy to rebuild Lebanon: it now means that HIzbullah is the uncontested ruler of the country. Some “effect” that was.
And notice that there’s not even talk of forcing Hizbullah to give back the captured Israelis. Yeah, that really demonstrates that Hizbullah “learned its lesson.”
The spin people are putting on this war is every bit as absurd as the way Arabists spun the 1973 war. It’s almost pathetic.
Oh yes. They destroyed these forces so thoroughly that America is being defeated as we speak in the battled in Afghanistan, and slowly demoralized in Iraq.
You should remember the Soviet experience…they invaded and conquered Afghanistan in a matter of days too. They just never really controlled the territory, and the attacks day by day added up over time…just like they’re adding up for America.
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Rodrigo_Bivar
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Are you sure they have not stopped Hezbollah’s rockets? How many rockets were fired at Haifa yesterday?
Every Lebanese knows the Hezbollah lost - they only have to see the damage left behind. Whole suburbs reduced to rubble - bridges still uncrossable. Yeah, right, they won.
Yeah, we believe you. Not.
Not true. The Lebanese have realized Hezbollah is the enemy within. Sure some Lebanese in their hatred for Israel will continue to support Hezbollah but it is clear Hezbollah can only bring more misery to the Lebanese than to the Israelis.
That is, of course, untrue. The Taliban resurgence is nothing more than a local concern in the border area with Pakistan. If you are an American as you claim then you would know we have handed over Afghanistan to the locals - we only have about 20,000 troops there now, with 12,000 under NATO command (not US command).
The US is watching the situation - if the Afghan-NATO military strength is incapable of handling the situation, we will go back and squash the Taliban all over again.
Ooohh… I’m sooo scared…
Not.
The Soviets did not control the country - only the cities such as Kabul. In contrast, the Afghans control most of the country except for the mountainous region near Pakistan because the Pakistanis provide sanctuary to the Taliban.
Don’t listen to the doom-sayers who know nothing about Afghanistan. Listen to the Afghans themselves.
cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/War_Terror/2006/11/12/2327009-cp.html
The casualty rate in Afghanistan is very low - only 288 US soldiers have died since 2001 and we will bomb the Taliban back to the 7th century and help them meet with their 72 houris, with pleasure.
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pro_universal
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No, Israel did not stop them. Hizbullah chose to stop the rockets because it got a favorable UN resolution that put Shebaa farms back on the table, and allowed it time to rearm for another battle.
Israel claimed its military force would stop the rockets. 30 days of attacks led to zero reduction in rocket strikes. A deal with Hizbullah ended that part.
You are living in a fantasy world, pure and simple. Hassan Nasrallah is far and away the most popular figure in Lebanon today. About 75 percent of Christians support Michel Aoun’s decision to join Hizbullah in calling for the government to resign. Look at the numbers if you don’t believe me.
HAHAHA, yeah, I guess that’s why Bill Frist was recently talking about bringing the Taliban back into the government. “We cannot defeat them militarily,” said he. More fantasy.
Isn’t that exactly the picture you just described for American rule there?
Yeah, but per capita it’s as bad as the casualty rate in Iraq.
The Taliban already lived in the 7th century, and they actually seem to enjoy making war. That’s why they’re defeating the US and its allies in Afghanistan.
Here’s an article you might want to read on Lebanon…gives a good detailed account of how Israel failed:
atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HJ13Ak01.html
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inJESUS
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Hizbullah will take control over Lebanon over Christians’ dead bodies and in the Shias’ dream. Michel Aoun’s supporters declined drastically and he lately supports Samir Geagea’ ( Lebanese Forces) against Hassan Nasrallah’s “aims” of control.
Hassan Nasralla admitted the once held “hope” of Islamizing Lebanon and admitted this “hope” was history because he knows perfectly well it’ll be over Christians’ bodies and may i add now Sunni and Druzes’ bodies as well.
Hassan Nasrallah DESTROYED Lebanon and he lost his authority in the South were UN exists now.
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pro_universal
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Of course supporters of the terrorist Gaeaga don’t like Hizbullah.
But it’s a fact, every poll from your country puts the Aoun/Nasrallah alliance as far and away the most popular. I can understand why you personally do not want to believe this, because you really do not like Muslims, but the fact of the matter is, most of the people in your country support Hassan Nasrallah, oppose Israel, and were proud to see Hizbullah defeat Israelis on the ground.
The Druze…used to operate torture prisons for Israel. Walid Jumblatt’s only power is that he is a warlord in charge of a small militia; he’s a nobody in the political realm.
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inJESUS
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Rodrigo_Bivar
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Heheh. I suppose that’s why Nazrallah says the Hezbollah provocation was a ‘mistake’.
We all know the Syrians and Iran were supply the missiles. What Israel wanted was to stop the rocket attacks. Which they did.
They call for the Lebanese government to resign because it has been proven to be ineffective. The next time Hezbollah attacks Israel again we shall see the response. I have no doubt Hezbollah will do just that - since they value death more than life. They don’t mind the deaths of the Lebanese so long as they can give the Israelis a ‘bloody nose’.
You people are all living in delusion, Muslim.
There are appeasers everywhere and we have learnt from history never to appease.
It’s a good thing Citizen Frist did not contest the 2006 elections because he knows his electoral will kick the dhimmi out.
No.
Huh? You are talking per capita now? How many Taliban were killed last month?
Keep on deluding yourself, bud. That’s why the Taliban are still hiding in caves like rats.
You want to face the facts or do you just expect us to believe dhimmi appeasers? That article is written by a London-based group dedicated to providing an opening to political Islam. Enough said.
Look at the facts, man. How many rockets were fired by Hezbollah before the war and how many were fired yesterday? How much damage was done to Israel vs how much was done to Lebanon?
I guess the paymasters in Damascus and Tehran can count the cost of Hezbollah’s folly, not to mention the Lebanese people who have to suffer because of the Hezbollah.
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pro_universal
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pro_universal
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Okay, but you are missing the point: Hizbullah is more powerful today than it was before the war. Maybe you don’t like their agenda, but that’s irrelevant.
LOL, classic…anyone who disagrees with you is a “dhimmi” and must be lying.
Okay, time for you to review math: Iraq has 140,000 soldiers. 3,000 are dead. That’s what percentage of 140,000?
Now, Afghanistan has 20,000 soldiers. Almost 300 are dead. That’s what percentage of 20,000?
That’s what “per capita” means.
They’re not.
Okay, what did Israel want from the war?
- Get its soldiers back
- Disarm Hizbullah
What did Hizbullah want?
- To bargain with Israel for the release of Kuntar (it’s happening right now)
- To resist Israeli occupation of Southern Lebanon (they did)
- To show Israel that its rocket attacks could not be stopped by military force (they did it.)
Does it look like Iran is running scared to you? Or trying to make a deal now?
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pumpqeen
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1 - Muslims are terrorists, because that’s what they are. Period.
Sahih Bukhary; and Hanbel.
Bukhary, Volume 1, Book 4, Number 234:
“A group of people from the Oreyneh and Oqayelh tribes came to the prophet to embrace Islam, the prophet advised them to drink the urine of the camels. Later on when they killed the prophet’s shepherd, the prophet seized them, gouged out their eyes, cut their hands and legs, and left them thirsty in the desert to die.”
Qur’an 5:51 “Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends.”
Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 61, Number 577:
I heard the Prophet saying, “In the last days (of the world) there will appear young people with foolish thoughts and ideas. They will give good talks, but they will go out of Islam as an arrow goes out of its game, their faith will not exceed their throats. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for there will be a reward for their killers on the Day of Resurrection.”
2 - How to stop them.
Learn from General Pershing. “Just before World War I, there were a number of terrorists attacks on the United States forces in the Phillpines by Muslim extremists. So General Pershing captured 50 terrorists and had them tied to posts for execution. He then had his men bring in two pigs and slaughter them in front of the now horrified terrorists. Muslims detest pork because they believe pigs to be filthy animals. Some of them simply refuse to eat it, while others won’t even touch pigs at all, nor any of their by-products. To them, eating or touching a pig, its meat, its blood etc. is to be instantly barred from paradise (and those virgins)and doomed to hell. The soldiers then soaked their bullets in the pigs blood, and proceeded to execute 49 of the terrorists by firing squad. The soldiers then dug a big hole, dumped in the terrorist’s bodies and covered them in the pig’s blood, entrails, etc. They let the 50th man go. And for the next forty-two years, there was not a single Muslim extremist attack. Maybe it is time for this segment of history to repeat itself! The question is, where do we find another Black Jack Pershing?”
freerepublic.com/focus/f-news…
Sounds terrible. Sounds extreme. Yes. But to deal with extremists, you have to be extreme. Anything less and you lose.
Sahih Bukhary; and Hanbel.
Bukhary, Volume 1, Book 4, Number 234:
“A group of people from the Oreyneh and Oqayelh tribes came to the prophet to embrace Islam, the prophet advised them to drink the urine of the camels. Later on when they killed the prophet’s shepherd, the prophet seized them, gouged out their eyes, cut their hands and legs, and left them thirsty in the desert to die.”
Qur’an 5:51 “Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends.”
Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 61, Number 577:
I heard the Prophet saying, “In the last days (of the world) there will appear young people with foolish thoughts and ideas. They will give good talks, but they will go out of Islam as an arrow goes out of its game, their faith will not exceed their throats. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for there will be a reward for their killers on the Day of Resurrection.”
2 - How to stop them.
Learn from General Pershing. “Just before World War I, there were a number of terrorists attacks on the United States forces in the Phillpines by Muslim extremists. So General Pershing captured 50 terrorists and had them tied to posts for execution. He then had his men bring in two pigs and slaughter them in front of the now horrified terrorists. Muslims detest pork because they believe pigs to be filthy animals. Some of them simply refuse to eat it, while others won’t even touch pigs at all, nor any of their by-products. To them, eating or touching a pig, its meat, its blood etc. is to be instantly barred from paradise (and those virgins)and doomed to hell. The soldiers then soaked their bullets in the pigs blood, and proceeded to execute 49 of the terrorists by firing squad. The soldiers then dug a big hole, dumped in the terrorist’s bodies and covered them in the pig’s blood, entrails, etc. They let the 50th man go. And for the next forty-two years, there was not a single Muslim extremist attack. Maybe it is time for this segment of history to repeat itself! The question is, where do we find another Black Jack Pershing?”
freerepublic.com/focus/f-news…
- Muslims kill non-muslims because they want to enter Islamic heaven and have sex with 72 sexy virgins. You can stop them at the door by desecrating their bodies before they can even enter. If I am a muslim, what is the point of me commiting suicide bombing, only to have pieces of my bodies dipped and mixed with pig’s blood and poured with the faeces and urine of unclean dogs? Allah would never welcome me into his cave even if I had killed a 10,000 souls for allah.
Sounds terrible. Sounds extreme. Yes. But to deal with extremists, you have to be extreme. Anything less and you lose.
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inJESUS
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Rodrigo_Bivar
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More powerful by stopping their unprovoked attacks on Israel? Yeah. If they want to strut and proclaim victory, who cares? We know come what may, they will do that in any case.
No, Bill Frist is not lying - he’s just a dhimmi. We in the West allow freedom of speech - giving that right even to dhimmis.
My response has been - so what? The 288 soldiers pale into significance the number of Talibs killed every month. And that is over a period of 6 years. Let’s see - that’s 48 US soldiers getting killed per year. You want to try again?
Hell they’re not. That’s why they hide in Pakistan and make forays into Afghanistan. Yup.
The Israelis know the Hizbollah would never disarm - that’s what is known as ambit claims.
You think Hezbollah stopped its rocket attacks out the goodness of their black hearts? No. They stopped because they realize that they were losing regardless of their propaganda.
You know, you Muslims think that by ‘resisting’ the Israelis you win. That is just false bravado. You lost. Your country is left in ruins - your people clamor for ‘peace’.
Any more of those kinds of pyrrhic victories you’ll end up all dead.
Hmmm… I guess it’s why Iran and Syria pressure Nazrallah into making the deal.
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pro_universal
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The myths run deep. Let’s see,
Afghanistan:
article.nationalreview.com/?q=YTU5NjViZGE1YjBlYTNmNDZlNzg5ZDc2OWMyNWU2NzE=
Sorry, but your “analysis” is more storybook than fact. Iran is happily pursuing nuclear weapons and has only ignored the EU, US, and Israel more since the Lebanon war. Nasrallah is on his way to controlling Lebanon in full. Syria is comfortably laughing at the US, and training Hamas forces to be more like Hizbullah as we speak.
If this is a “victory” for people who hate Muslims and for Israel, then I’m sure that Nasrallah will be rooting alongside you for more “Israeli victories” like these
Afghanistan:
article.nationalreview.com/?q=YTU5NjViZGE1YjBlYTNmNDZlNzg5ZDc2OWMyNWU2NzE=
The Taliban is growing in strength, not hiding in caves.
Uh, no, they stopped because it was to their advantage to do so. They got everything they wanted from the UN resolution and the power to deal with Israel on prisoners. What interest would they have in keeping the rockets going? Israel gave them everything they wanted, that’s why they stopped.
Okay, so on the one hand, Nasrallah had no choice and was beaten, but on the other, Iran and Syria had to force him to accept it?
Sorry, but your “analysis” is more storybook than fact. Iran is happily pursuing nuclear weapons and has only ignored the EU, US, and Israel more since the Lebanon war. Nasrallah is on his way to controlling Lebanon in full. Syria is comfortably laughing at the US, and training Hamas forces to be more like Hizbullah as we speak.
If this is a “victory” for people who hate Muslims and for Israel, then I’m sure that Nasrallah will be rooting alongside you for more “Israeli victories” like these
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Rodrigo_Bivar
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I’m only using a figure of speech, bud. Don’t hold me to a literal interpretation of my words.
The US has effectively handed over control of Afghanistan to the Afghans. The Taliban have admitted resumed its dirty tricks, and the time will come when a couple of B-52s will be needed to neutralize them once again. We’re just waiting for them to present a large enough target to warrant the fuel cost.
Hahaha. They got everything they wanted? The Israelis wanted the Hezbollah to stop rocket attacks which they did. They asked for but knew the return of those soldiers would not be granted because the Hezbollah are scum.
You think Israel cares two dimes for the UN? Those idiots can’t keep the peace even in Rwanda. Even today, the UN peacekeepers only work between 9 to 5, and leave the terrorist to do their evil deeds in darkness.
Sure, why not? Did you not even read Nazrallah’s admission that if he knew the kind of response Israel showed, he would not have ordered the provocations.
Of course, Iran and Syria pressured Nazrallah to accept the deal - after all, it is they who have to ultimately bear the monetary cost of rebuilding the part of Lebanon left in ruins by the ‘defeated’ Israelis.
I kind of like the way Muslims ‘win’ nowadays - seems very much like heavy defeats to me. Then again, after three heavy defeats against Israel, all they can do is shoot a few rockets at Haifa and delude themselves into thinking they are ‘winning’.
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pro_universal
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Oh yeah, you just keep telling yourself that.
So in other words, the UN resolution did nothing to help Israel, and Israel knew this beforehand, yet agreed to the UN plan anyway? Because Israel…was winning? That sure makes sense, err, something.
Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe, Nasrallah might be a politician who says things to make people feel better, even if he doesn’t mean it?
He also said a few days later that he thought Israel was going to do it anyway, and was happy he got to fight them.
Again, under your theory, this makes no sense. Why would they have to pressure him if he was losing anyway?
They defeated IDF troops on the ground in combat. That is most definitely a victory.
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