What do they (Islamic terrorists) want?

[YinYangMom]

It’s not a splinter group of radicals - they have theological basis in the Quran surah 9.

This war was not our doing but it will take years, if not decades to fight.

Yes. To solve a problem you have to first acknowledge you have one.

All non-Muslim countries are under attack. The stated aims of many terrorist groups is the establishment of global caliphate and the imposition of Islam on the world. That is hardly a good thing.

So you’re in agreement that this is a defensive war we’re in…and that we do need to see it for what it is - not for what it isn’t - in order for us to suceed.

How, then, do we get the powers that be to get off the ‘war on terror’ bandwagon over to the ‘war against the west’ in order to get us on the right track?

 

[inJESUS]

Islam is not a personal religion between a Muslim and his Allah. Islam is a political-religious ideology based on domination. “fight them until the religion is for Allah”.

 

[YinYangMom]

Islam is not a personal religion between a Muslim and his Allah. Islam is a political-religious ideology based on domination. “fight them until the religion is for Allah”.

So then, how does the West best defend against those Islamists who have revived the political/religious domination ideology?

 

[inJESUS]

So then, how does the West best defend against those Islamists who have revived the political/religious domination ideology?

i’m not a Westener so i don’t know…but coming from a “once” Christian dominant country, i say you better do something…stop immigration and do not grant them their wish of applying Islamic law in your countries…because once they multiply in number, you’ll have to live “their” way. Check Egypt that was once a Christian country…Christians in there do not have an opinion anymore,they are being killed and kidnapped and deprived from good positions and harrased for wearing crosses ecc

 

[cestusdei]

Yin, Hitler hated Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular. I can provide quotes if you wish. Read his Table Talk where he says what he really thought.

How do we fight them? First we need to realize who our enemy is. Then hit him on all fronts. Militarily we can beat them anywhere. But also we must hit their ideology. This is what annoys me when I see attacks on Bush or us and when liberals do episodes of the Simpsons that attack us. Why aren’t they ridiculing the enemy and pointing out his problems? Why isn’t Hollywood making movies that seek to “convert” the enemy to freedom? We need to be more articulate about what we stand for and to communicate it to the Muslim masses. We also need to push them to really look at the faults of Islam, to confront them with it’s errors. Critical thinking would at the very least force reform within Islam. Basically it would force cognitive dissonance. And we need to push for religious freedom and then send missionaries that are trained to evangelize Muslims. Let’s go all the way and seek to bring them into Christianity.

 

[inJESUS]

Cest, what you are talking about needs years. I say better find ways within your country : just do not give them the chance to multiply and hence apply their rules in your countries. They already have their countries. Don’t know if this can be done anyway but that’s how i see it…instead of welcoming a potential threat that might end up in civil clashes ( which always happens wherever Muslims go ), just avoid it in the best non-violents means.

 

[inJESUS]

oh Hitler, he admired Muhammad btw.

 

[Valke2]

Yin, Hitler hated Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular. I can provide quotes if you wish. Read his Table Talk where he says what he really thought.

How do we fight them? First we need to realize who our enemy is. Then hit him on all fronts. Militarily we can beat them anywhere. But also we must hit their ideology. This is what annoys me when I see attacks on Bush or us and when liberals do episodes of the Simpsons that attack us. Why aren’t they ridiculing the enemy and pointing out his problems? Why isn’t Hollywood making movies that seek to “convert” the enemy to freedom? We need to be more articulate about what we stand for and to communicate it to the Muslim masses. We also need to push them to really look at the faults of Islam, to confront them with it’s errors. Critical thinking would at the very least force reform within Islam. Basically it would force cognitive dissonance. And we need to push for religious freedom and then send missionaries that are trained to evangelize Muslims. Let’s go all the way and seek to bring them into Christianity.

MIlitarily, we are in trouble. We have shown, I think, that we are not great at responding to a fluid, gurellia type of warfare with convential forces. Guerrila war seems to be the “new” leap forward in military evolution, as strange as that sounds. And we are behind the “technology curve” here. The advanatage is with our enemies.

Do you really think that the West, by using military coercion and propoganda/communication, is going to convince the muslim world of the need for reform? Isn’t this just pouring fire on gasoline? How do we convince them of the errors of Islam when we have supported such regimes as Saddam’s (in the past), and Saudi Arabia. The most corrupt aspects of Islam can be viewed as being a result of Western influence or, at least as being courted by the West/US. How concerned is the US in bringing democracy to Saudi Arabia?

I think that we, as a country, have made the decision that US intersts are best promoted by actions that have, unfortunately, the result of alienating much of the arab/muslim world. Perhaps if we were able to lessen our dependence on foriegn oil.

 

[YinYangMom]

How do we fight them? First we need to realize who our enemy is. Then hit him on all fronts. Militarily we can beat them anywhere.

No we can’t beat them anywhere militarily because we do not have access to their locations. They are in the caves of Afghanistan/Pakistan…they are being shielded by the Syrians, the Iranians and more…and the cells are in countries outside our own…we can’t just go into another country to root out the jihadists on that turf. This is why the cells are multiplying in weaker countries (though I have no doubt they are growing well here in the states as well - homegrown cells)…we can’t touch the cells abroad and the local military forces don’t have the resources or technology they need to do it themselves.

But also we must hit their ideology. This is what annoys me when I see attacks on Bush or us and when liberals do episodes of the Simpsons that attack us. Why aren’t they ridiculing the enemy and pointing out his problems? Why isn’t Hollywood making movies that seek to “convert” the enemy to freedom?

Because it’s Hollywood, not government propaganda.

We need to be more articulate about what we stand for and to communicate it to the Muslim masses. We also need to push them to really look at the faults of Islam, to confront them with it’s errors. Critical thinking would at the very least force reform within Islam. Basically it would force cognitive dissonance.

You’d think that would do the trick, but again, the jihadists aren’t critical thinkers as much as they are brainwashed puppets of the real masterminds behind the push to conquer…and I still suspect those guys are being manipulated by the greater minds of Syria, Iran, and the like. I could be wrong.

And we need to push for religious freedom and then send missionaries that are trained to evangelize Muslims. Let’s go all the way and seek to bring them into Christianity.

We, as in the United States, could never back an approach which seeks to convert anyone into Christianity because we are all about the right to worship whichever faith freely.

 

[YinYangMom]

How concerned is the US in bringing democracy to Saudi Arabia?

Whoa. Isn’t that part of what fueled the jihadists in the first place?

I understand their #1 reason to conquer is to rid the planet of infidels.

But part of what fueled that desire to go out and conquer is the encroaching presence of democracy in their home regions in the first place, isn’t it? It doesn’t matter that the Saudis and Egyptians themselves brought western influences themselves…what matters is the jihadists recognize what these leaders have brought comes from the outside and since they can’t topple their own governments they’ve gone out to attack the source.

What bugs me is they are financially supported and politically fueled to hate the west from those same people who brought the western influence home. This is why diplomatically these governments appear to be our allies and thus, we can’t touch them, militarily or economically.

 

[Valke2]

Whoa. Isn’t that part of what fueled the jihadists in the first place?

I understand their #1 reason to conquer is to rid the planet of infidels.

But part of what fueled that desire to go out and conquer is the encroaching presence of democracy in their home regions in the first place, isn’t it? It doesn’t matter that the Saudis and Egyptians themselves brought western influences themselves…what matters is the jihadists recognize what these leaders have brought comes from the outside and since they can’t topple their own governments they’ve gone out to attack the source.

What bugs me is they are financially supported and politically fueled to hate the west from those same people who brought the western influence home. This is why diplomatically these governments appear to be our allies and thus, we can’t touch them, militarily or economically.

With Saudi Arabia, it was our support of teh current regime that fueled Bin Laden’s anti-western attitude. Especially the keeping of troops there.

 

[inJESUS]

Lebanese Pierre Gemael is another victime to Syrian terrorsism supported by Hizbullah.

He was shot and killed today. Please pray for his soul.

 

[pro_universal]

Lebanese Pierre Gemael is another victime to Syrian terrorsism supported by Hizbullah.

He was shot and killed today. Please pray for his soul.

I’m sorry to hear that he was killed, but let’s not pretend he was innocent in all the killing in Lebanon.

The Gemayel warlords were some of the most ruthless criminals of the civil war. Phalangists have a bad name around the world for a reason: they’re known as murderers and criminals.

 

[cestusdei]

I didn’t say any of this would be easy. It will demand all out effort on our part. The alternative is to lose. In which case there will be a new dark ages. A real dark age. We need to stop thinking that we should just do what they want so they will like us. It never works. We should tell Pakistan we are sending guys in to search those caves and we won’t take no for an answer. We should inundate Iraq with troops and shut down the enemy. If we need to increase the size of the army then we should do it. Iran and Syria should be next on the list if they don’t shape up and stop supporting terrorism.

The problem is that if we wait until Iran has the bomb and the Muslims think they are winning then we will end up in a total war. We would have to go in and kill massive numbers in order to finally convince them to stop. A small war now is better then a huge one later. We can beat them, now or later. Let’s win now. It’s going to take awhile. But we can do it. We must. I don’t plan on being a dhimmi, ever.

 

[cestusdei]

pro. murderers and criminals? They are called “Hezbullah.”

 

[inJESUS]

I’m sorry to hear that he was killed, but let’s not pretend he was innocent in all the killing in Lebanon.

do you even know who the guy was before you start ranting?

The Gemayel warlords were some of the most ruthless criminals of the civil war. Phalangists have a bad name around the world for a reason: they’re known as murderers and criminals.

 

[inJESUS]

pro. murderers and criminals? They are called “Hezbullah.”

oh no…Syrians have been killing Lebanese who oppose them, and when people ask for a trial to punish the Syrian regime, Hizbullah try their best not to grant us our wishes…it doesn’t matter if people are being killed everyday for wanting a free country…what matters is Syria and Palestine and Iran, and then comes Lebanon. These are our Hizbullah heroes and anyone who opposes them is a traitor, zionists and terrorist.
How dare we retaliate to Palestinian and Syrian terrorists? if they want our country, let them have it…saying otherwise means you are a terrorist and a murderer. Palestinian armed men shooting at our churches? so what? if we retaliate, we are murderes. Palestinian armed men parading on our streets and provoking our freedom and integrity. So what? attacking them means we are murderers. If Muslims retaliate to opressors, they are the victims. But if Christians do the same, they are murderes in Pro’s agenda.

 

[pumpqeen]

Cestusdei is correct. We shouldn’t be wasting time waiting for the muslims to turn because they WON”T…EVER. As long as they remain muslims, their solidarity lies with always lie with Muhammad the terrorist.

It is sickening to hear people defending islam after all that it has done and all that these ardent muslim followers have committed in the name of their sex rewarding allah.

Anyone who has dealt with muslims know what the muslims are planning. I can’t say from my extensive experience with them that all of them are extremists, but I can tell you with certainty that those who are zealous enough WILL BECOME TERRORISTS if they aren’t one now. All that is needed is a trigger.

It’s a sticky issue.

If you press down too hard to prevent their spread, the moderates may think that you’re proving yourselves to be minions of their devil and take the chance to plunge into terror. This includes waging wars against the majority of muslim countries. If you don’t press down hard, the extremists will continue to spread the Islamic message of annihilating infidels and infect more followers and syariah will continue to prevent religious escape.

USA has failed specifically in Iraq because the media still does not have freedom of speech. Secular knowledge is not distributed and the government inhibits religious freedom. At every country fought, once the upper hand is achieved, we must start injecting the truth and removing systems that prohibit religious freedom (removing madrasahs and establishing secular schools, removing syariah & establishing secular courts etc).

Only absolute truth will kill Islam. War will only invoke greater hatred and terrorism. Do not join them in their suicide bids, they WANT to die. Cos by dying from this life of poverty and pain, they hope to gain many wives and jewels. A diabolical offer by an evil being.

 

[YinYangMom]

Cestusdei is correct. We shouldn’t be wasting time waiting for the muslims to turn because they WON”T…EVER. As long as they remain muslims, their solidarity lies with always lie with Muhammad the terrorist.

It is sickening to hear people defending islam after all that it has done and all that these ardent muslim followers have committed in the name of their sex rewarding allah.

Islam is not the problem.
Radical Islamists are.
It is critical that the U.S. and the West be able to distinguish between the two.
If we lump all Islamists together then we risk attacking an innocent group which will then draw the whole of Islam against us.
We have to keep our focus on the minority radical cells and target them.
We outnumber the radical cells.
We do not outnumber the Muslims around the world so going after the majority of innocent Muslims will be suicidal.

Think about the IRA conflict in Ireland. Catholics and Protestants were terrorizing each other for years. Did those Catholic rebels represent all of Catholicism? No. If other Catholic countries came under attack in the name of vengence for the Irish Protestants killed at the hands of the Catholic militants would that have been just? No.

This is a very targeted war we’re in. The Jihadists waged it. Not the entire Muslim community. We must tread carefully but efficiently.

 

[cestusdei]

The majority are NOT innocent. They stand by and applaud or at least secretly smile when the terrorists attack us. Islam is the problem because it undergirds their terror. The IRA had no religious dimension, they were actually marxists. And they were minimal compared to the Muslims. In fact the Church had no problem condemning the IRA. I do myself and I am half Irish. You might also note the IRA gave up and is now moribund. The Brits didn’t give up.

The fact is that most Muslims wouldn’t turn in a terrorist if they knew who he was. Why? Because we are kaffir and the terrorist is muslim. Until you see hundreds of thousands of Muslims protesting against terrorism then nothing will change and they will remain the enemy.