What do third order members do?

[Michael_Neal]

I am wondering generally what third order lay people do, what the focus of meetings are, organizational events, daily life etc.

I know it probably depends on the organization but from your experience/knowledge what is it like?

 

[Marauder]

As you said it varies order to order, group to group.

If you are talking a group like a group like the Secular Franciscan Order, daily your average member would pray the Liturgy of the Hours, and work their normal job. If they can they may go to Mass, pray the Rosary, etc. It all depends on their personal spiritual life.

If you are talking a group like the Third Order Regular Franciscans, they may teach at a school, work at a hospital, etc. (Note: Franciscan Third Orders Regulars live in community, they aren’t for “normal” lay people, SFO is more for lay people.)

The average monthy meetings for SFO usually start with some type of prayer, whether it be evening prayer, a Mass, Eucharistic Adoration varies month to month fraternity by fraternity. After that there is a talk on some topic. The topics cover all areas of spirituality. The talks can be by other members, priests, the spritual director for the group, outside people, etc. At the end of the meeting is usually some social time to allow for people to talk to each other about what is going on in their normal life.

Other events usually involve special things on major feast days particular to the Order, SFO usually does special things for the Francsican special days. There may also be outside missions for the group.

The best thing would to be to contact the third/secular order you are interested in and attend a few meetings. Most secular orders require that to start the process.

P.S. If you want specifics about SFO feel free to ask, either in here or via PM.

 

[Michael_Neal]

yes I am definitely interested in hearing more about the SFO, right now I am torn between the SFO and the Secular Discalced Carmelites.

 

[Marauder]

yes I am definitely interested in hearing more about the SFO, right now I am torn between the SFO and the Secular Discalced Carmelites.

The first thing to do is to figure out which type of spirituality appeals to you more. Franciscan or Carmelite?

In general Franciscan spirituality involves living the gospel in your everyday life, where Carmelite spirituality usually involves contemplative prayer. You can use aspects of both in both Franciscan and Carmelite spiritualities but Caremelites stress contemplative prayer when Franciscans don’t.

The next thing you should do is to look at the Rules of each organization and determine if you think you can eventually live by the Rule.

Information, including the Rule for SFO can be found at:
nafra-sfo.org/

The next big step is to actually attend a few meetings. SFO requires that you have to at least attend 3 monthly meetings before you can start the process.

Above all, remember that joining a Third/Secular order is not like joining a club, it is a calling and a way of life. Pray and look into yourself to see if it is your true calling. Feel free to ask specifics about SFO.

 

[I_Believe]

Not to sway you Michael, but you may want to check out the Dominican Third Order as well.

3op.org/life.php

 

[puzzleannie]

check out Benedictine Oblates, search on this forum or vocations, or the other groups that interest you. I recently posted from publications about the Oblate way.

We pray the LOTH and practice lectio divina daily
we meet in local groups and in the general meetings at the monastery periodically
we assist and support the sisters in the building of the monastery and in their work–evangelization and pro-life witness
we study the rule of St. Benedict and how to apply it to our daily lives
we read and study together a different papal writing each year–last year Gospel of Life, not Deus Caritas Est–or other spiritual books.

 

[Michael_Neal]

Thanks for the information, these are all such wonderful groups and there are aspects of each one that I like.

I don’t think there are any Benedictines near me so that tends to rule them out, but I still love their order.

I remember reading about the Dominican Third Order, and my great uncle was a Dominican priest but from what I know they are a preaching order and I am certainly not that. I am more reserved and introverted and not a good speaker at all, actually I am terrible However, I do have a devotion to the rosary and love St. Louis Marie de Montfort.

I like the contemplative aspect of the Carmelites since I am more reserved and love contemplative prayer. I am devoted to the Brown Scapular as well.

But I also love the adventure and radiant love that the Franciscans bring to everyday life. My patron Saint is St. Anthony which also draws me to the Franciscans.

I am so conflicted.

 

[Andruschak]

Thanks for the information, these are all such wonderful groups and there are aspects of each one that I like.

I don’t think there are any Benedictines near me so that tends to rule them out, but I still love their order.

I remember reading about the Dominican Third Order, and my great uncle was a Dominican priest but from what I know they are a preaching order and I am certainly not that. I am more reserved and introverted and not a good speaker at all, actually I am terrible However, I do have a devotion to the rosary and love St. Louis Marie de Montfort.

I like the contemplative aspect of the Carmelites since I am more reserved and love contemplative prayer. I am devoted to the Brown Scapular as well.

But I also love the adventure and radiant love that the Franciscans bring to everyday life. My patron Saint is St. Anthony which also draws me to the Franciscans.

I am so conflicted.

And there are also two groups of lay Catholics living the old Franciscan Rule of 1221 in our daily lives, the original Third Order Of The Continent.

penitents.org CFP

bspenance.org BSP

 

[Gabrielis]

Hi Michael,

You may want to check this thread out which follows a fellow-member’s journey from an initial interest in the lay Carmelites to anticipating her first OCDS meeting a month from today:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=217527

Ask Our Lady of Fatima, whose feast is today, to help with your discernment. Also ask Francisco, Jacinta and Lucia. Did you know that at Our Lady’s final apparition on October 13, 1917 she appeared as the Queen Mother of Carmel? Lucia herself became a Carmelite nun eventually. If you have a particular devotion to Mary you would definitely want to check the Carmelites out, since it is Mary’s Order. May she assist you in your discernment.

Gabrielis

You will not take from me, my God, what you once gave me in your only Son, Jesus Christ, in whom you gave me all I desire. Hence I rejoice that if I wait for you, you will not delay. With what procrastinations do you wait, since from this very moment you can love God in your heart?
Mine are the heavens and mine is the earth. Mine are the nations, the just are mine, and mine the sinners. The angels are mine, and the Mother of God, and all things are mine; and God himself is mine and for me, because Christ is mine and all for me. What do you ask, then, and seek, my soul? Yours is all of this, and all is for you. Do not engage yourself in something less or pay heed to the crumbs that fall from your Father's table. Go forth and exult in your Glory! Hide yourself in it and rejoice, and you will obtain the supplications of your heart. 

"Prayer of a Soul Taken with Love" by St John of the Cross, OCD, Mystical Doctor of the Church

 

[Marauder]

Thanks for the information, these are all such wonderful groups and there are aspects of each one that I like.

The key is to figure out which one you are called to. It sounds like you like aspects of all of them. Just because you eventually need to pick one, doesn’t mean you have to give up anything you like. You can still do contemplative prayer in SFO, you can still have a devotion to St. Anthony in the Carmelites. Most of the traditional secular/Third Orders do not in any way limit your spiritual life to certain devotions. You may even go down one path and find it isn’t for you. That is why it takes time until you make your vows/promises to the group. You can always stop at any time. Whether the reason be the local group doesn’t meet your taste or the charism of the Order doesn’t appeal to you. The key is to continue the process, if you really feel called attend meetings of both groups. None of them require a committment to attend the meetings. At least in SFO during the meetings you can do the same things everyone else can do, except hold an office or vote for the people running for office.

Online forums and research online can only tell you so much. It can give you the Rules, views of others in the organization, etc. but you really won’t get a true feel until you attend some meetings.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

For Secular Order Discalced Carmelites, first you have to find a group. This may sound easier than it is. Even if there is a group near you, some groups are not organized as they should be. But if you do find a group, and decide to visit, be sure they are following the Rule of Life for Secular Order Discalced Carmelites. Be sure there is an elected president and council.

If you find a group that is well organized, depending on the size, they will either let you sit in on the conference, which is given either by one of the senior members, or the spiritual assistant, a Carmelite Friar. Some groups have aspirants meet separately during this time, where they are informed about the order and what the responsibilities are. Afterward, you return to the main body and depending with the group, you will have Mass, followed by refreshments and fellowship. We would then end with praying the Liturgy of the Hours, Evening Prayer. It took all afternoon.

Here’s the process from the Rule of Life for Secular Order Carmelites, which is now refereed to as the Constitution, for Secular Order Carmelites. You can also read the entire Constitution, do see what the promises involve.

1.   The gradual introduction to the life of the Secular Order is structured in the following manner:

a) A sufficient period of contact with the community for no less than 6 months. The purpose of this stage is that the applicant might become more familiar with the community, the style of life and service to the Church proper to the Secular Order of the Teresian Carmel. This period also gives the community the opportunity to make an adequate discernment. The Provincial Statutes will specify this period.

b) After the initial period of contact, the council of the community may admit the applicant to a more serious period of formation that usually lasts for two years leading up to the first promises. At the beginning of this period of formation, the scapular is given to the applicant. This is an outward symbol of membership in the Order, and the sign that Mary is both Mother and Model on this journey.

c) At the end of this stage, with the approval of the Council of the Community, the applicant may be invited to make the first promises to follow the evangelical counsels and to live in the spirit of the beatitudes for a period of three years.

d) In the last three years of initial formation there is a deeper study of prayer, the Scriptures, the Documents of the Church, the Saints of the Order and formation in the apostolate of the Order. At the end of these three years the applicant may be invited by the Council to make the Definitive Promises to live the evangelical counsels and the spirit of the Beatitudes for life.
ocdswashprov.org/legislation/OCDSCONSTITUTIONSFinal.htm

Note, one year after Definitive Promises are made the person may ask to make vows of chastity and obedience.

As far as I know, the Secular Order Carmelites are the only third order, who are allowed to make vows.

In all, pray for guidence and follow the will of God. The doors will open to where He wants you, and this is where you should go.

God Bless
Jim

 

[Marauder]

As far as I know, the Secular Order Carmelites are the only third order, who are allowed to make vows.

SFO allows you to make vows if you want, but you are only required to make promises to become a professed member.

 

[Michael_Neal]

Thanks, I guess the only way to find out is to attend some meetings.

Are SFO members required to recite the Liturgy of Hours daily?

 

[Marauder]

Are SFO members required to recite the Liturgy of Hours daily?

In SFO you are obligated to pray the Liturgy of the Hours at least once a day. You can use either the 1 volume Christian Prayer version or the 4 volume set. This isn’t something you vow so it isn’t a mortal sin if you miss, but you need to take it seriously to at least pray the Liturgy once a day.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

SFO allows you to make vows if you want, but you are only required to make promises to become a professed member.

OK then they’re the same.

For OCDS, they are not allowed to even suggest that you make vows. It must be of your own initiative.

FYI, the difference between promises and vows are;

promises are between yourself, the Order and your community.

vows are between yourself and God.

Jim

 

[Michael_Neal]

generally what is required are the morning and evening prayers right?

 

[Marauder]

generally what is required are the morning and evening prayers right?

In SFO, technically you can pray any of the prayers to fulfill the “requirement”, but the church as a whole has said preference should be given to morning and evening prayer above the others in cases where you can only do one or two.

In SFO there is no set time you have to pray so if you can only pray in the morning, use morning prayer. If you can only pray in the evening, use evening prayer. Praying is the important part. As your spiritual journey continues you can add in the other prayers when you feel it is appropriate.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

generally what is required are the morning and evening prayers right?

For OCDS, morning and evening prayer is just part of the Rule of Life. Also included is one half hour of mental prayer everyday. You promise to life a life of chastity(according to one’s state) obedience, poverty and follow a devotion to the Blessed Mother.

Jim

 

[Michael_Neal]

what does the promise of a life of poverty entail?

 

[Marauder]

generally what is required are the morning and evening prayers right?

When I first saw this I thought you were referencing the LOH question specificially but based on Jim’s response if you are asking what is required in SFO, then there are more “requirements”.

Once a professed member you are required to:

1. to attend the monthly meetings (unless validly excused)
2. to provide financial assistance to the fraternity
3. to promise to live a life of poverty, chastity, and obediance.
4. to obey the minister in regards to requests at official functions

The rest of the “requirements” aren’t so specific but involve living a gospel life (i.e. frequent reception of the Eucharist and the sacrament of reconciliation, etc.) They are spoken of in the Rule and the Constitutions listed on the national web page nafra-sfo.org/