What do you consider a reverent novus ordo mass?

[opus101]

To me, a reverent Mass is one that uses things already afforded us by our gracious Mother the Church, and avoids anything that She has discouraged.

I happen to like simple Masses, mostly in English with the simple chant responses in English or sometimes in Latin,
already printed in the Missal/Missalettes. It’s great to have the propers chanted, but if this cannot be done for one reason or another, I really don’t mind the “4 Hymn sandwich” that many complain about, as long as they are standard hymns composed and rendered in a sacred style.

I’m not a big fan of complicated polyphonic settings except in Cathedrals or on special Feasts and Solemnities.

It would be great if we could all learn the “minimum” of Latin/Greek suggested by Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI. It’s not hard at all to learn the Kyrie/Sanctus/Agnus Dei in Latin. With a translation right under/next to it, one can easily understand it and eventually learn it.

 

[triumphguy]

I was going to post it, but then I thought a natural objection would be: “wow, wait a minute, that’s the Pope celebrating Mass in the Vatican…you sure don’t expect that level of perfection to be attained in my humble little Parish, do you?”

Of course, we can expect and in fact do expect it anyways

It looks much like the mass we celebrate in our humble parish every week - except we have less Italian and Latin, and we don’t self communicate

 

[triumphguy]

Thank you. Its the bad masses that get the attention. What’s going ot get more attention. A reverent OF mass, or an irreverent OF clown mass, or puppet mass or what have you

Here’s a good thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=763051

 

[pnewton]

I find that having the prayer of the Mass said like a prayer, deliberately, unrushed and with meaning, is important. We have a priest that is very deliberate in his words and I really notice when if a priest comes that tries to rush through the words. The other thing I help are pauses of silence.

 

[jwinch2]

I find that having the prayer of the Mass said like a prayer, deliberately, unrushed and with meaning, is important. We have a priest that is very deliberate in his words and I really notice when if a priest comes that tries to rush through the words. The other thing I help are pauses of silence.

Very well said. I could not agree with you more. Silence in the liturgy is so important, as has been noted by many. If I remember correctly Pope Benedict stated something along the lines of silence in the liturgy being the time when we listen to God speak to us as a parish community.

Thankfully, our priest is very much like that. He takes his time, is appropriately reverent, and allows some pause here and there for reflection and prayer. To his credit, he has also been very receptive to those of us who have approached him about having one of our three weekend Masses take on a more traditional flavor. The other two Masses are something to witness (electric guitar, electronic drum machine, etc.), but I am pleased that things seem to be moving in a positive direction for at least one of our Masses. I need to pray for him more than I do, as he is fighting an uphill battle with some of the laity in the parish.

 

[triumphguy]

Very well said. I could not agree with you more. Silence in the liturgy is so important, as has been noted by many. If I remember correctly Pope Benedict stated something along the lines of silence in the liturgy being the time when we listen to God speak to us as a parish community.

Thankfully, our priest is very much like that. He takes his time, is appropriately reverent, and allows some pause here and there for reflection and prayer. To his credit, he has also been very receptive to those of us who have approached him about having one of our three weekend Masses take on a more traditional flavor. The other two Masses are something to witness (electric guitar, electronic drum machine, etc.), but I am pleased that things seem to be moving in a positive direction for at least one of our Masses. I need to pray for him more than I do, as he is fighting an uphill battle with some of the laity in the parish.

Interestingly I did a number of retreats two weeks ago for grade 10 students. I did have quiet time for them in the chapel, but each groups’ evaluation said they wanted MORE quiet time in the Chapel. I’m doing some more retreats in a few weeks and will have a lot more quiet for them.

 

[thewanderer]

I find that having the prayer of the Mass said like a prayer, deliberately, unrushed and with meaning, is important. We have a priest that is very deliberate in his words and I really notice when if a priest comes that tries to rush through the words. The other thing I help are pauses of silence.

Best answer. Have the priest follow the rubrics, and then, whether in latin or the vernacular, ad populum or ad orientem, CITH/COTT, etc etc it doesn’t matter at all.

 

[severus68]

Where does anyone disparaged the OF in this thread or say that the NO Mass is not reverent in itself? People have said that if is often celebrated irreverently, which does not remotely imply that the OF itself is wrong or irreverent. The fact of the matter is that this is unfortunately true, as can be witnessed by our previous Holy Father Pope Benedict’s statements on the liturgical implementation of the reforms of Vatican II and by the fact that the Vatican felt the need to put out a document to help priests celebrate Mass correctly. Blessed Pope John Paul II himself noted this also in Vicesimus Quintus Annus.

Even the OP said that he hears that the OF is celebrated irreverently, which again is not the same thing as saying that the OF itself is irreverent.

I have personally noted my preference for a well done OF Mass over the EF of the Mass hundreds of times here on CAF. I find it to be far more edifying when it is done well. I am happy to hear of so many people on this thread who are fortunate enough to attend a parish where this is a regularity. Unfortunately, that is not the case for me, and many others, though I dearly wish it were.

You are playing with semantics here.

 

[jwinch2]

You are playing with semantics here.

No, I am most certainly not.

I personally prefer the OF compared to the EF of the Mass, providing it is celebrated with reverence and according to the preferences of the Church. I am not personally attached to or edified by the EF of the Mass and when I have attended it I did not particularly enjoy it. Yet, I can also recognize that I have seen very few parishes which celebrate the OF Mass in the manner in which the Church prefers. What this shows is that it is not an inherent lack of reverence to the OF of the Mass, rather any problems which exist are in the decisions which are made regarding how it is often celebrated.

So, please tell me how I am disparaging the OF of the Mass.

 

[jwinch2]

Interestingly I did a number of retreats two weeks ago for grade 10 students. I did have quiet time for them in the chapel, but each groups’ evaluation said they wanted MORE quiet time in the Chapel. I’m doing some more retreats in a few weeks and will have a lot more quiet for them.

Its cool to hear that. It would be interesting to hear why they asked for more. I am curious as to their thoughts on the matter.

 

[latingirl]

I have seen the Novus Ordo done beautifully and reverently. Reverence is usually adhering to the norms of the “Instruction of the Roman Missal” and to the outline of Sacrosanctum Concilium a Vatican II document about liturgy. And yes of course, heart and soul must be put into it.

Usually when people depart from these instructions and outlines and start making the Mass personal, about them or about entertaining people, it becomes irreverent such is the sad case at my former parish where the priest shirked the rubrics, added words to prayers and made us sing “Happy Birthday” during Mass (now if this was after Mass, it wouldn’t have been so bad). A guess the best Mass is kept simple, yet beautiful. Beauty shouldn’t be sacrificed for simplicity and simplicity shouldn’t take a sideline to flashy entertainment.

I usually use how the pope celebrates Mass and the Masses on EWTN as a guideline for what reverent NO looks like.

 

[jwinch2]

Thank you. Its the bad masses that get the attention. What’s going ot get more attention. A reverent OF mass, or an irreverent OF clown mass, or puppet mass or what have you

That’s a fair point.

When I am fortunate enough to attend Mass at a place that really does a good job with liturgy, I always try to make a point to mention how much I enjoyed it to the priest or the deacon on the way out. Two weeks ago our parish choir chanted the Agnus Dei in Latin for what may have been the first time ever according to people I spoke to. I made an effort to tell the choir director how nice of a job they did after Mass was over.

A few simple things like that can go a long way. I am one of the people who does lament bad liturgy, and I am not going to apologize for it. However, in an effort to be fair, I do try to also acknowledge when someone really does a good job.

 

[severus68]

No, I am most certainly not.

I personally prefer the OF compared to the EF of the Mass, providing it is celebrated with reverence and according to the preferences of the Churchorian chant. I am not personally attached to or edified by the EF of the Mass and when I have attended it I did not particularly enjoy it. Yet, I can also recognize that I have seen very few parishes which celebrate the OF Mass in the manner in which the Church prefers. What this shows is that it is not an inherent lack of reverence to the OF of the Mass, rather any problems which exist are in the decisions which are made regarding how it is often celebrated.

So, please tell me how I am disparaging the OF of the Mass.

I never said you were disparaging the OF. You have obviously misunderstood my response to the OP. I see this often referring to the irreverence of OF masses as knocking the OF and comparing it negatively to the EF.

Actually, I like the EF. . I love Gregorian chant for example, but I see it as a personal liking. I like a simple mass too. The mass is the mass. I have never attended an irreverent mass. I do not understand all these complaints about masses. Much of this is about personal preferences i my opinion.

 

[ProVobis]

It would be great if we could all learn the “minimum” of Latin/Greek suggested by Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI. It’s not hard at all to learn the Kyrie/Sanctus/Agnus Dei in Latin. With a translation right under/next to it, one can easily understand it and eventually learn it.

I think you’re referring to Jubilate Deo, which was actually prescribed by Paul VI. (The use is free of charge.) Yes it would be nice to go to a Spanish Mass, a Polish Mass, or whatever and hear this Latin minimum. A little unity wouldn’t hurt.

 

[triumphguy]

Its cool to hear that. It would be interesting to hear why they asked for more. I am curious as to their thoughts on the matter.

It made them feel relaxed and safe.

Kids always have sound in their lives - they’ve often got headphones or earphones pumping out music. They very rarely have silence.