What do you consider liberal?

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The traditions and practices of the Church served our ancestors well for 1950 years. The “inclusive”, “less formal”, “more modern”, “progressive” ideas and practices that have entered into the celebration of Mass since have served to mostly mock and undermine the serenity and reverence of the ceremony initiated by our Lord. A true realization of His presence should serve to guide every part of the Mass.
 
Hm. liberal parishes:

*Holding hands at the Our Father.
*Rock music with drums and electric guitars.
*Denying the inerrancy of scripture, like saying that multiplication of loaves and fishes did not happen, but was a “miracle of sharing”
*changing words, especially at the consecration
*No kneelers
*inviting half the church to the surround the altar at consecration
*Hidden tabernacles
*No insistence on quiet prayerfulness before or after Mass.
*Inclusive language, especially substituting “God” for “him” no matter how awkward
*When the priest does not genuflect or bow deeply after the consecration of the bread and wine.
*Feel good sentimental songs from the St Louis Jesuits instead of the the great hymns, (new as well as old by the way) that work musically and have prayerful/poetic lyrics
 
I was reading the responses, and people are so pietistic they cannot see the big picture for their personal biases.

In my parish we have this new priest, and he brought his entourage with him. They say the Rosary in the pews right up until the start of mass, every Sunday. This is a very liberal position, as the church typically uses this time to gather together. I find it very rude and inconsiderate. How can people meet with each other and prepare for the celebration when folks are taking up that space with their own interests. Praying the Rosary is not the liberal part, but changing the gathering practices for the church is.

In my parish we do not have working comissions. Worship, education, etc. these commissions are ignored and the priest takes on control for these areas. This is a liberal position, as the Church rightfully owns these activities. The priest does not even acknowledge the parish council. We don’t have elections and the parish is suffering because of it. The liberal taking of what rightfully belongs to the Church is not proper.

Those people who want to claim that changing a few words is liberal, or who want to focus on the latin language haters are caught up in very small pietistic and personal issues. In the 3rd century, when the mass as we know it was created, latin was the language of the pagans. Mass was meant to be celebrated in the language of the people, and the words we use to translate the original documents makes no difference if they lead us to Christ.

If we allow those liberal priests, and those communities apathetic to the changes, to bring in their own brand of Catholicism we weaken our Church. If we allow those priests to claim conservative positions, and take away the power of the Church community we will lose for years to come.

Youth ministry and ecuminism are dead in my parish, but my children know how to say a prayer to Michael the Archangel. This is sad and we need to take our parish back.

That is how I define liberal.
 
Not only discouraging kneeling before and after Mass, but the priest engaging in loud conversation. Discouraging kneeling. Ignoring the message of the gospel to talk about so feel good thing or some social justice government project (instead of foster Christian charity). Neglecting eucharistic adoration. Criticizing saints. Saying mortal sins are not sin during confession. :mad:

Kendy
 
If you are looking at religious orders, it depends on the area. Some franciscans, and Jesuits for example are both. Look at Fr. Mitch Pacwa, he is very orthodox. The Jesuits at Marquette are liberal.
 
Simple: Anyone less observant than myself is a liberal. Anyone more observant is a fanatic.

That’s a joke, son. Laugh!
 
I am a middle aged man who returned to the faith in the last few years. What I find unacceptable and/or inappropriate in (before and after as well) the Mass are:

(1) Loud fast-beat music, or sentimental feel-good songs with no traditional religious meaning or depth,
(2) Noise, talking, commotion in the congregation at any time,
(3) Revealing and tight clothing,
(4) a lack of spoken prayer (too much singing)(I think some attend solely for the musical performance. I have even heard clapping at the end of a Mass and it was not for our Lord!),
(5) alteration of the true gospel language and thus the meaning (inclusive or “correct” language substitution),
(6) “modern” practices like holding hands at the Our Father or introducing ourselves to others before the Mass,
(7) a lack of reference to sin, Hell, and damnation for fear of offending parishioners (those of us who love the Truth want to hear the blunt reality),
(8) Common parishioners walking around or at the Holy Alter (they often do not even have the sense to bow or genuflect) ,
(9) Common parishioners handling the Eucharist,
(10) Alter girls,
(11) a lack of male involvement/participation. At times, the Mass seems more like a New Age festival than a traditional Catholic ceremony.

The lack of solemn reverence by the congregation in many Masses and lack of instruction or direction by most Priests in this regard is appalling and discouraging. Do so few understand in Whose Presence we gather and why? I will continue to search for the traditional (real) Mass and the more traditional, the better!
 
In a parish in our city (not my own but I have gone there on holidays etc) there are no kneeling benches, and so everyone keeps standing. Also, during the Our Father, every single person in the church reaches for the hands of those on either side, and the people at the ends of the main aisle, go out into the aisle so they can join hands with the corresponding pew. I consider this “liberal” and do not like it.
 
Liturgical dancing
Recorded sound effects
Priest shaking hands with front row at Sign of Peace
Asking parishoners to come out of the pew for holding hands, placing hands on shoulders, etc…
 
In my opinion, a liberal
  • Dissents from moral teachings
  • Dislikes any traditional liturgy or spirituality
  • Does not adhere to the GIRM and promotes liturgical abuse
  • Is extremely politically correct, and hates anyone who admonishes a sinner
 
shrug

Liberal implies a continuum of viewpoints, with liberal on one end, moderate in the middle and conservative on the right.

With the Church you have a binary system

either you are being true to the Church or you are not

But yes, all inclusive language should be condemned, it is disobedient at best, heretical at worst.

Priests need to submit to the church norms and the bishops, so if a priest is not wearing appropriate vestments thats a big problem. I mean, if he can’t choke on his pride and where a chassible and an alb, then what about how he will be on the big things. like aknologing his own sinfulness and whatnot.

I’m less concerned with newer music, as long as it is catholic sounding; it might not be my preference but many young catholics like it; so as long as it grabs their attention and isn’t contradicting the faith, I’m willing to let it slide; assuming it hasn’t been condemned by the bishops and the priest hasn’t been warned/reprimanded. That being said, if I were a priest and my Bishop said “stop that new music now” then the only choice is to obey. Swallow your pride, you are a sinner, and under the authority of your superiors, deal with it. (directed to the hypothetical priest, not the poster!)
 
Little_Flower said:
Hm. liberal parishes:

*Holding hands at the Our Father.
*Rock music with drums and electric guitars.
*Hidden tabernacles
*Feel good sentimental songs … instead of the the great hymns…
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Agreed! If I hear that Jesus is Awesome song ever again (once was enough) I’ll lose my mind!
 
There is nothing liberal going on at my TLM parish. Have you considered the FSSP, or Institute of Christ the King?
 
DiscerningDave said:
I am in a discerning process of priesthood and would like to gain some insight so I may us this information in the future process.

What do you, as a Catholic parishioner, consider liberal actions by your church (meaning parish, priest, parishioners, etc…)? This is not to be meant a thread for debate, just OPINIONS. Specific examples would be great. I know what I consider liberal, I would just like to hear other thoughts.

Thanks
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Giving examples would be helpful to forming an opinion.
 
A liberal wants to be a catholic, but is ignorant of Catholicism. Catholicism is not fun, and it comes with many heavy crosses, none of which compare to the Sufferings of Christ and the Sorrows of Mary.

A liberal accepts or rejects a priest based on whether or not he likes the priest.

A liberal expects something for what he puts in the collection basket.

A liberal will ignore anyone near them who are kneeling in prayer after the mass has ended. They see it as their right to hold conversation with others, totally oblivious to the fact they are standing in a catholic church.

A liberal will say the Church is too strict on this or that issue.

A liberal takes for granted that he will go to Heaven.

I could go on…
 
Pug said:
I will answer hypothetically, and not about my actual parish.

I dislike having persons in the employ of the parish or in major volunteer positions (like a DRE) who espouse dissent, or vociferously want women priests, etc.

I dislike it when only elite members of the parish can get involved, and those out of the loop are not allowed to volunteer in many capacities.

I dislike being made to go to meetings or classes that are a total waste of my time.

I dislike watching one pastor carefully renovate something and then have the next pastor “renovate” the same thing, and the next…

I dislike it when unreasonable burdens are placed upon people before they are allowed to receive the sacraments.

Stuff like this.
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Welcome to your average Catholic parish. 😉
 
Like some have mentioned, there is the gender changing in the Creed and the readings. Other liberal practices are not having kneelers, abstract stained-glass which doesn’t depict anything, no statues of saints and a very plain wooden statue of Our Lady which isn’t very inspiring. Another thing is the changing of seating into a semi-circle, so we are all facing each other, but not the Tabernacle which is now at the side of us. Would we do this if we saw Jesus in Person enthroned where the Tabernacle is? It is quite laughable when you think of it.

Another thing which really gets to me is the giving of Communion to remarried divorcees and to those who don’t go to Mass every week. It is funny how there seems to be two types of Catholic: orthodox and liberal. I don’t really see a half-way point.
 
Nick9 said:
Another thing which really gets to me is the giving of Communion to remarried divorcees and to those who don’t go to Mass every week. It is funny how there seems to be two types of Catholic: orthodox and liberal. I don’t really see a half-way point.
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I don’t know how the priest or EMHC in your average parish in the US can know who goes to mass each week with precision. Nor can they easily know who missed last week with just excuse. Also, the person could have gone to confession since last Sunday. It just doesn’t seem workable.
 
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