What do you consider liberal?

  • Thread starter Thread starter DiscerningDave
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

DiscerningDave

Guest
I am in a discerning process of priesthood and would like to gain some insight so I may us this information in the future process.

What do you, as a Catholic parishioner, consider liberal actions by your church (meaning parish, priest, parishioners, etc…)? This is not to be meant a thread for debate, just OPINIONS. Specific examples would be great. I know what I consider liberal, I would just like to hear other thoughts.

Thanks
 
Disregarding Traditions and just doing whatever the members of the parish request.

Changing the words of Mass

Supporting any movements like Renew 2000, that has a prayer to all the directions(North South East West) :confused:

Not displaying the Eucharist during Adoration

Worrying more about societies thoughts than on Church teachings
Code: 
I'm sure there are more but thats just what came to my mind right now(and that I've heard/seen being done)
 
Anything not orthodox. Anything during the Mass that is not in conformance to the rubrics I consider liberal. Preaching that is always soft and gushy. Homilies that never acknowledge sin, and do not preach against sin. Preaching that only includes social justice issues I consider liberal. Irreverrant Masses. Intentional disrespect for the Eucharist. Intentionally picking secular or not so Catholic hymns.

Cathechists teaching a watered down feel good faith.
 
I think that is a complicated question, I mean do you mean politically liberal or theologically liberal? Certain orthodox church positions, like for example our obligation to the poor or opposition to the death penalty in most cases would be seen as liberals in modern society. Currently, I think my parish was and remains relatively conservative theologically. If the priest doesn’t necessarily agree with a particular teaching, he certainly doesn’t bring up his opposition in Church.

–
Bill
 
mchale said:
I think that is a complicated question, I mean do you mean politically liberal or theologically liberal? Certain orthodox church positions, like for example our obligation to the poor or opposition to the death penalty in most cases would be seen as liberals in modern society. Currently, I think my parish was and remains relatively conservative theologically. If the priest doesn’t necessarily agree with a particular teaching, he certainly doesn’t bring up his opposition in Church.

–
Bill
Click to expand...
I am specifically referring to something you have seen in your parish during mass, ministires, evening classes, etc… So, basically, in your own close community.

Peace
 
I’m not real comfortable with the terms liberal and conservative. Application of both these terms, in today’s highly charged and polarized society, leads to the demonization and exclusion of real, breathing people.
 
  1. Deliberately ignoring the GIRM.
  2. Changes to the words of the Ordinary of the Mass (eg substitue hymns for the Sanctus, Agnus Dei)
  3. Not wearing Chasuble when celebrating Mass.
  4. Priest comes out from the Sanctuary during Sign of Peace
  5. Statements like “You only make the Sign of the Cross once at the start of the Mass, and once at the end of the Mass”
  6. Statements like “The normal way of receiving Holy Communion is on the hand”
  7. Hostility towards the use of Latin and the Gregorian Chant.
  8. Ignorance of Marian Doctrine
  9. Ignorance of the Dogmas of the Church
  10. The incorrect seperation of being ‘pastoral’ and being ‘doctrinal’
 
This week we were treated to the green binder and inclusive language.

In the creed the word “flesh” was substituted for man.

In the Gospel instead of a baby him the him became an it.

We hear during consecration “friends” instead of disciples, like we don’t know the difference between disciples and friends.

We heard “when you do this, remember me”.

The priest leaving the sanctuary. EMofHC pouring the wine.

:eek: I am so discouraged.
 
DiscerningDave said:
I am in a discerning process of priesthood and would like to gain some insight so I may us this information in the future process.

What do you, as a Catholic parishioner, consider liberal actions by your church (meaning parish, priest, parishioners, etc…)? This is not to be meant a thread for debate, just OPINIONS. Specific examples would be great. I know what I consider liberal, I would just like to hear other thoughts.

Thanks
Click to expand...
I am against liberal and conservative labelling within the Church. It is either following Christ’s Church or not.

On maters of difference that are not rules so to say, those are personal opinions and have nothing to do with liberal or conservative terms.

I think those who want to use these terms are simply trying to pin the other person down as less-good or a lesser Catholic.
 
Why, anything to the “left” of me, of course! 😉

Debbie

(comment thrown in for a bit of levity (with a grain of truth!))
 
DiscerningDave said:
I am specifically referring to something you have seen in your parish during mass, ministires, evening classes, etc… So, basically, in your own close community.

Peace
Click to expand...
One example that comes to my mind happened at a neighboring parish to mine: Public dissent of the pastor from the bishop’s directive on the matter of withholding communion from “pro-choice Catholic” politicians. This pastor held meetings to further discuss his position.
 
I think it depends on how you want me to use the word liberal. I rarely call anything I see “liberal”.

Possibilities:
  1. generous, liberal giving of money to a cause
  2. tendency to only like the music to change and constantly reform, with a corresponding dislike of any music over a certain age
  3. a support of people doing whatever they like, with maximum freedom, individualistic expression, say in the postures and places to stand during mass
stuff like this. But as I said, I don’t use the term when talking to others about what happens at mass. However, in my head, I probably am likely to at least be tempted to categorized certain behaviors as “dissent”. But dissent can go many ways, not just in the liberal direction.
 
buffalo said:
Anything not orthodox. Anything during the Mass that is not in conformance to the rubrics I consider liberal. Preaching that is always soft and gushy. Homilies that never acknowledge sin, and do not preach against sin. Preaching that only includes social justice issues I consider liberal. Irreverrant Masses. Intentional disrespect for the Eucharist. Intentionally picking secular or not so Catholic hymns.

Cathechists teaching a watered down feel good faith.
Click to expand...
:amen:
 
I am not defining the word liberal. I am just curious as to what some people consider liberal in regards to the church. There have been a few responses stating they do not like the word liberal. Ok, then think of it in these contexts, please.

What actions of your parish church do you not like?
 
DiscerningDave said:
What actions of your parish church do you not like?
Click to expand...
I will answer hypothetically, and not about my actual parish.

I dislike having persons in the employ of the parish or in major volunteer positions (like a DRE) who espouse dissent, or vociferously want women priests, etc.

I dislike it when only elite members of the parish can get involved, and those out of the loop are not allowed to volunteer in many capacities.

I dislike being made to go to meetings or classes that are a total waste of my time.

I dislike watching one pastor carefully renovate something and then have the next pastor “renovate” the same thing, and the next…

I dislike it when unreasonable burdens are placed upon people before they are allowed to receive the sacraments.

Stuff like this.
 
using gender neutral terms in the Gloria, Niocene Creed, and in other various responses in the liturgy. Example:

“May the Lord accept the sacrifice at our hands, for the praise and Glory of God’s name, for our good and the good of all God’s Church.” It’s HIS Church!

Also in the creed when we say “and became man” is convuluted into “and became flesh.”

Non-traditional liberalist infiltration at its finest.

Its quite annoying. :eek:
 
If you are referencing adherence to Church teaching, then I consider “liberal” to be non-traditional, and “conservative” to be traditional" Catholics. 👍
 
One more thing…not having kneelers, not kneeling during the consecration of the host, having gutted out churches with no stained-glass and statues…also congregationalist type seating arrangements with Churches that don’t even have a large Crucifix in the front. I gues that was more than one. 🙂
 
DiscerningDave said:
What do you, as a Catholic parishioner, consider liberal actions by your church (meaning parish, priest, parishioners, etc…)?
Click to expand...
Hm, I’d have to say my parishes default of having six Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion - regardless of the number of parishioners at the Mass.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top