What do you consider liturgical abuses?

[Godfollower]

I agree, but the Church herself noted what the grave abuses are, and it is not only offenses against the validity of the Sacrament, but also against the dignity of the Sacrament.

A great example is the use of ceraminc or glass vessels, or of the pouring of the species of wine from one vessel to another after it has been Consecrated.

The Church specifically denotes these as being grave abuses against the diginity of the Sacrament. If the Church feels that such are grave abuses, no one has the authority to claim otherwise.

Incidentally, here’s a related question. Let’s say you are tasked with bringing Holy Communion to a sick person, and s/he becomes unable to accept solid food of any sort (a common problem in the person’s last days). The Church says we can bring the Precious Blood to such a person. But, what’s the proper form of vessel? It must be securely fastened, obviously; are there proper “flasks” for this purpose?

I own a pyx for His Body; I would have no idea how to transport His Blood.

 

[Newbie2]

I agree with you. The issue I have at my parish is the giant mural of Mary at the center of the sanctuary and Jesus is off to the side. If I am correct, the mural of Mary needs to be concealed and Jesus must be at the center? I could be incorrect?

There’s nothing wrong with centering one’s faith around the blessed mother. If you grow closer to her, the only thing that’s going to happen is that she’s going to bring you closer to her Son. Afterall, she is his first and most faithful disciple. There’s a lot we can learn from our mother. =)

As for our protestant brethren, we just have to educate them.

I’d be REAL careful about how we say we “center” our faith around Mary, lest we be misunderstood. Taken literally…yeah, there’s a problem with saying one is centering one’s faith around Mary. I’d put it slightly differently, that we use Mary’s help to help us center our faith around her Son.

The point I was trying to make is that there are varying levels of failure to follow the rubrics. Yes, rules are rules; but Jesus’ entire ministry dealt with the pharisaic problem of well-meaning church-goers getting exercised about form over substance, and we should be careful not to fall into the same trap.

Let’s say an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion cleans the chalice after Communion. That’s prohibited (because it’s reserved to the priest, and the indult that had allowed extraordinary ministers to purify the vessels has expired). Do we really need to burn down the church as a result? No; life’s too short. Someone involved (the pastor; a sacristan; an extraordinary minister who just finished the training) should correct the practice, by all means; but it is most emphatically not the same thing as having the deacon conduct the consecration.

And, if members of the congregation – or the entire congregation, as the case may be – are reciting parts of the Mass reserved to the priest, then, yes: that should be corrected. But it is by no means the same thing as using beer and pretzels for Communion instead of bread and wine.

Basically what I’m saying is that, sometimes on CAF, people who cry “Abuse!” are acting like child-protective service people demanding that parents be imprisoned for swatting a child who ran into traffic. There are lots of violations of the rubrics. Maybe we could concentrate on the ones that matter, and leave the others to the people who actually hold jobs requiring them to deal with the others.

Vita parum brevis est.

What if a priest accidentally makes an honest mistake, which may or may not cause the congrigation to question the validity of the Eucharist? Wouldn’t that just be a mistake, and not an abuse? What is to be done, if anything, in that situation?

1. It’s not about what we like, it’s about what the church has asked us to do.
2. No one is running around screaming (at least not I). All that is required is a (few) letter(s) or phone call(s) to the parish or the bishop’s office.

Which begs the question, “Is every Catholic who does not do this a ‘bad’ Catholic?” and “What if they don’t? 99.95 will not do so.”

Okay,but the issue here has to do with a mural of her at the center of the sanctuary,not our lives.

Reminds me of a Ukranian rite church we went to recently, with the extended family for a first Communion. Above the sanctuary, VERY Prominantly in the front of the church is the Blessed Mother with an infant Jesus. “Hmmmm, I thought”, I know some Protestants who would have a hissy fit over this…then I looked up, into the Cupula (sp?) above the sanctuary, 40 feet up. It is filled with the image of Christ.

Somebody was thinking when they decided on the art for that Parish.

 

[marietherese4]

Hi,

I saw this thread and I was wondering if something at my church was an abuse. Weekday masses in my parish are celebrated in a small chapel and there are usually only 10-15 people there on a given day. We all stand in a circle around the altar while the priest does the consecration. The thing I was unsure about is that when we receive communion, everyone passes the plate of hosts to each other, saying, “The Body of Christ,” before handing it to the next person, who takes a host from the plate, turns to the next person, and does the same thing. Is it an abuse that we take our own hosts from the plate? I’ve been unsure about this and I don’t want to participate in doing anything wrong. Any replies would be appreciated.

 

[MarkThompson]

Hi,

I saw this thread and I was wondering if something at my church was an abuse. Weekday masses in my parish are celebrated in a small chapel and there are usually only 10-15 people there on a given day. We all stand in a circle around the altar while the priest does the consecration. The thing I was unsure about is that when we receive communion, everyone passes the plate of hosts to each other, saying, “The Body of Christ,” before handing it to the next person, who takes a host from the plate, turns to the next person, and does the same thing. Is it an abuse that we take our own hosts from the plate? I’ve been unsure about this and I don’t want to participate in doing anything wrong. Any replies would be appreciated.

Yes, having the communicants pass around the sacred vessels and take the consecrated host themselves is an abuse. The 2004 instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum from the Vatican explains the rules for most topics concerning Holy Communion, and one thing it makes clear is:
94. It is not licit for the faithful “to take . . . by themselves . . . and, still less, to hand . . . from one to another” the sacred host or the sacred chalice.[fn. 181: http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/current/chapter4.shtml#sect1”]GIRM no. 160] Moreover, in this regard, the abuse is to be set aside whereby spouses administer Holy Communion to each other at a Nuptial Mass.

 

[TrueLight]

Hi,

I saw this thread and I was wondering if something at my church was an abuse. Weekday masses in my parish are celebrated in a small chapel and there are usually only 10-15 people there on a given day. We all stand in a circle around the altar while the priest does the consecration. The thing I was unsure about is that when we receive communion, everyone passes the plate of hosts to each other, saying, “The Body of Christ,” before handing it to the next person, who takes a host from the plate, turns to the next person, and does the same thing. Is it an abuse that we take our own hosts from the plate? I’ve been unsure about this and I don’t want to participate in doing anything wrong. Any replies would be appreciated.

Wow.

I’ve seen that happen in my liberal protestant church, but how does that happen in a Catholic church?

 

[Singapore_Nick]

hmmm…I recalled seeing a picture of a statute of Buddha being placed over the tebernacle in a church in Assisi during World Day of Prayer initiated by John Paul II.