What do you define as a liberal and a conservative?

[Gift_from_God]

All I ever hear about is “oh he’s a typical liberal” and “oh, Palin’s a conservative hero”. Quite frankly, I’m sick of it. The reason why is because I don’t believe in such ideologies actually exist, we just label people as one of these ideologies. Let me put it to you this way; at the time, Abraham Lincoln would have been one of the most liberal people in America because of his anti-slavery views. Today, liberals and conservatives oppose slavery. The ideologies of the US Constitution were the most liberal, most leftist, most progressive ideologies in human history because it was the first time a nation said it would not be ruled by a king, emperor, or sultan. Rather, it would be run by the people. Today, what conservative would be against a democratic system? Well, maybe Pat Robertson, but I digress.

As a Canadian living in Canada, many people that identify themselves as “conservatives” are more “left-wing” than conservative Americans. What do I mean by this? We love out health care and we’re not as obsessed with guns as conservative Americans are.

So after that rant, do you think there is such a thing as a conservative and a liberal?

 

[R_Daneel]

All I ever hear about is “oh he’s a typical liberal” and “oh, Palin’s a conservative hero”. Quite frankly, I’m sick of it. The reason why is because I don’t believe in such ideologies actually exist, we just label people as one of these ideologies. Let me put it to you this way; at the time, Abraham Lincoln would have been one of the most liberal people in America because of his anti-slavery views. Today, liberals and conservatives oppose slavery. The ideologies of the US Constitution were the most liberal, most leftist, most progressive ideologies in human history because it was the first time a nation said it would not be ruled by a king, emperor, or sultan. Rather, it would be run by the people. Today, what conservative would be against a democratic system? Well, maybe Pat Robertson, but I digress.

As a Canadian living in Canada, many people that identify themselves as “conservatives” are more “left-wing” than conservative Americans. What do I mean by this? We love out health care and we’re not as obsessed with guns as conservative Americans are.

So after that rant, do you think there is such a thing as a conservative and a liberal?

Oh, that is easy to answer. A conservative is a liberal who just have been mugged. A liberal is a conservative who just has been accused of the above mugging.

 

[Lycorth]

Entry for “Conservatism” on Wikipedia.

Entry for “Liberalism” on Wikipedia.

I find these suitably accurate definitions.

 

[Lutheranteach]

Good question, because I am very liberal on some things and very conservative on others and refuse to be labeled either, I call myself a moderate realist.

 

[mjs1987]

All I ever hear about is “oh he’s a typical liberal” and “oh, Palin’s a conservative hero”. Quite frankly, I’m sick of it. The reason why is because I don’t believe in such ideologies actually exist, we just label people as one of these ideologies. Let me put it to you this way; at the time, Abraham Lincoln would have been one of the most liberal people in America because of his anti-slavery views. Today, liberals and conservatives oppose slavery. The ideologies of the US Constitution were the most liberal, most leftist, most progressive ideologies in human history because it was the first time a nation said it would not be ruled by a king, emperor, or sultan. Rather, it would be run by the people. Today, what conservative would be against a democratic system? Well, maybe Pat Robertson, but I digress.

As a Canadian living in Canada, many people that identify themselves as “conservatives” are more “left-wing” than conservative Americans. What do I mean by this? We love out health care and we’re not as obsessed with guns as conservative Americans are.

So after that rant, do you think there is such a thing as a conservative and a liberal?

The term left wing wasnt even used during the Founders time so its kid of irrelevant in discussing the two terms since the comparison is difficult to make. It was a French Revolution invention and didnt come into popular use in American and global politics until after the American Civil War in America and June Days in France. To say the US Constitution is leftist and progressive is the most idiotic thing I think I have heard on here. It is the opposite of Marxist ideals, the modern leftist standard since 1851 in Europe and influence, and it was far more conservative than the French version just over a few years after (where left wing first came to be used). In fact, many historians see the American revolution as being a conservative revolution since very little actually changed in society with the US Constitution. The French Revolution was way more radical than the American and has a lot more in common with modern Marxism than the US Constitution does. Liberal back then meant freedom but today it means equality. Then you say that Pat Robertson might be against democracy? absurd! He is a religious man and is in favor of religious values. He gets labeled a conservative because he is against abortion and is in favor of faith playing a role in the national culture. Christian right winger is a better way to describe Robertson than anti-Democracy.

To be honest, Abraham Lincoln would be like a modern pro-abortionist. His view on slavery was that he was against it but didnt want to make it illegal. His emancipation proclamation was written so it freed few slaves so as to appease slave owners in border states as well as abolitionists and European powers. He would be seen as like a modern John McCain or Joe Biden. He just got lucky the South had fewer men and decided not to fight a guerrilla war in the South. His own party was happy to get rid of him in 1865 because they felt he was too lenient with the Confederacy and slave owners.

Its a myth that Americans are more obsessed with guns than other places. Americans just dont like our rights being infringed upon. The Bill of Rights gives the right to bear arms. Many see restricting that as a slippery slope to restricting other things. If that right wasnt being infringed on then it wouldnt be a big issue to many people. People that believe strongly in other rights fight just as strongly in this country. Free speech activists fight hard as do the freedom of/from religion crowd.

Are there liberals and conservatives? Yes, there are. But it depends on the country! In Britain, there are the Tories (conservatives) and the Labour (socialists). In Canada, there are the liberal and conservative party. In America, the Democrats are sometimes the liberals and the Republicans are sometimes the conservatives. In France, there are the far-left, centre-left, centre-right, far right. In America, the term liberal and conservative is normally applied by the opposites but is also a self-applied label. I think many “liberals” like to be known as progressives while many “conservatives” will call themselves libertarians. There are also the middle-of-the-road/moderate people who sometimes call themselves conservative or liberal or are labeled that way. Conservatives and liberals will often times proudly proclaim this about themselves so yes it does exist. It exists because we say it does and proudly proclaim it.

 

[Betterave]

“I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.” - Abe Lincoln’s First Inaugural Address, a few years prior to his signing the Emancipation Proclamation

Here’s an interesting take on the issue from Scottish philosopher John Haldane:

thepublicdiscourse.com/2008/11/109

 

[AJTheMan]

“What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label ‘Liberal?’ If by ‘Liberal’ they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer’s dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of ‘Liberal.’ But if by a ‘Liberal’ they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people – their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties – someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a ‘Liberal,’ then I’m proud to say I’m a ‘Liberal.’” – John F. Kennedy

Something along those lines, probably.

 

[edwest2]

I don’t find these terms useful. When a political pundit on TV refers to someone as a left-of-center Reagan-style supply-sider, I’ve just learned nothing. I don’t think it would help if various people wore buttons that said “liberal” or “conservative.”

That said, a liberal is generally supportive of things that are opposed by Church teaching. A conservative may not even acknowledge Church teaching but his views will usually be a lot closer if not the same.

My .02 cents.

Ed