What do you do if you regret converting?

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On the other hand, I realize that, since the Church eventually came to the right decision, I shouldn’t be upset that she changed her teachings.

I know plenty of people who think that the Church should change a lot of her teachings, and I am very glad that the Church no longer teaches that marriage is incompatible with holiness.

I guess, at worst, the Catholic Church is no worse than a very slow moving Protestant church.
Plenty of Protestant churches change their doctrines, and they change them so fast that people notice the change.
The Catholic Church changes her doctrines, and she changes them slowly, so people don’t notice. I like that.

That being said, I still think it’s safer to marry a Protestant than a Catholic. Fewer hangups.
 
On the other hand, I realize that, since the Church eventually came to the right decision, I shouldn’t be upset that she changed her teachings.
I don’t think the church changed any doctrine here. Marriage has always been a sacrament, as has holy orders. You can be holy in either endeavor. Afterall, Mary was married.
I know plenty of people who think that the Church should change a lot of her teachings, and I am very glad that the Church no longer teaches that marriage is incompatible with holiness.
Lucy, the church never taught that marriage is incompatible with holiness. Mary, the most revered Saint of the Church, was married. Some individual church fathers may have implied that marriage was a less holy endeavor than the preisthood or religious life, but the Church has NEVER taught that marriage was incompatible with holiness. I for one agre that becoming a priest or a nun can be heroic, particularly today, but that doesn’t negate the fact that a person can be holy in the married state as well. Different people love in different ways… As for the Church, It has ZERO freedom to change its doctrines. It was taught the truths of the faith by Jesus himself and must faithfully hand those truths down.
I guess, at worst, the Catholic Church is no worse than a very slow moving Protestant church.
Plenty of Protestant churches change their doctrines, and they change them so fast that people notice the change.
The Catholic Church changes her doctrines, and she changes them slowly, so people don’t notice. I like that.
No, the church doesn’t change her doctrines. They are eternal truths. What does change is how people describe them. As there is contention, the truths are clarified. For instance, there was always a Trinity, but the nature of the Trinity was clarified at the Council of Nicea so that everyone could understand it in the correct way.
That being said, I still think it’s safer to marry a Protestant than a Catholic. Fewer hangups.
Lucy, marrying someone outside your faith is a great driver of strife. Those that share the same faith, are much happier and likely to stay together. There is a gallup poll that shows that 50% of marriages end up in divorce. EXCEPT only 1% of marriages end in divorce when the couple attend weekly mass together. And its less than 1 in 1152 for those couples who pray together. The reason is simple. Marriage is a sacrament of sharing. If you can’t share your faith, which plays a real role in defining who you are, then your marriage is already starting at a disadvantage. The real stress comes with the children. What do you teach them?

And by the way, what leads you to think that protestant men have less hangups than their Catholic counterparts?
 
I don’t think the church changed any doctrine here. Marriage has always been a sacrament, as has holy orders. You can be holy in either endeavor. Afterall, Mary was married.

Lucy, the church never taught that marriage is incompatible with holiness. Mary, the most revered Saint of the Church, was married. Some individual church fathers may have implied that marriage was a less holy endeavor than the preisthood or religious life, but the Church has NEVER taught that marriage was incompatible with holiness. I for one agre that becoming a priest or a nun can be heroic, particularly today, but that doesn’t negate the fact that a person can be holy in the married state as well. Different people love in different ways… As for the Church, It has ZERO freedom to change its doctrines. It was taught the truths of the faith by Jesus himself and must faithfully hand those truths down.

No, the church doesn’t change her doctrines. They are eternal truths. What does change is how people describe them. As there is contention, the truths are clarified. For instance, there was always a Trinity, but the nature of the Trinity was clarified at the Council of Nicea so that everyone could understand it in the correct way.
If that’s the case, then how do you explain people like St. Augustine, St. Jerome, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Alphonsus Ligouri, and St. Bridget of Sweden, and what they wrote about marriage?

Every time I bring this up, the answer is same. “That’s not what the Church teaches.” You know what it reminds me of? Muslim apologists. Every time a young man blows himself up as a suicide bomber, the Muslim apologists say, “Oh the Koran doesn’t really teach violence. It’s a religion of peace.” But they can’t seem to explain why so many young men seem to be under the impression that it does teach violence.

And actually, the problem is worse for Catholics than for Muslim apologists, in a way. The Muslim young man may be a teenager, poorly educated and easily manipulated. But, with the possible exception of St. Bridget, the rest of the men listed were very well educated. Two of them were bishops. Furthermore, the Church honored the four men as Doctors of the Church, meaning that they were honored by the Church for what they wrote.

If their writings were contrary to Church teaching, then why were they honored for them, rather than condemned?
Lucy, marrying someone outside your faith is a great driver of strife. Those that share the same faith, are much happier and likely to stay together. There is a gallup poll that shows that 50% of marriages end up in divorce. EXCEPT only 1% of marriages end in divorce when the couple attend weekly mass together. And its less than 1 in 1152 for those couples who pray together. The reason is simple. Marriage is a sacrament of sharing. If you can’t share your faith, which plays a real role in defining who you are, then your marriage is already starting at a disadvantage. The real stress comes with the children. What do you teach them?
I am aware of the risks, and I should qualify my statement. I believe it is safer to marry a devout Protestant than a devout Catholic. If the Catholic is lukewarm, or non practicing, it would proably be ok.
And by the way, what leads you to think that protestant men have less hangups than their Catholic counterparts?
It’s quite simple. Protestant churches, at least the ones I was raised in, have such a positive view of marriage and family. They don’t argue amongst themselves about when a married couple should give up sex, or revere men who abandon their wives and children to live in a cave. Most of the holy people they look up to are from the Bible, and most of them were married and had families.

Catholics on the other hand…
 
And by the way, what leads you to think that protestant men have less hangups than their Catholic counterparts?
Let’s say, for the sake of the argument, that I was married and my marriage was going through a rough spot. I start sleeping in the guest room. If my husband was devout Catholic, he would say, “This is great! We’re weaning ourselves off of the marital act so that we can more fully love God!” If my husband was a devout Protestant, he’d say, “I think it’s time for marriage counseling.”
 
If that’s the case, then how do you explain people like St. Augustine, St. Jerome, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Alphonsus Ligouri, and St. Bridget of Sweden, and what they wrote about marriage?
What did they write about marriage that has made you so upset?
Every time I bring this up, the answer is same. “That’s not what the Church teaches.” You know what it reminds me of? Muslim apologists. Every time a young man blows himself up as a suicide bomber, the Muslim apologists say, “Oh the Koran doesn’t really teach violence. It’s a religion of peace.” But they can’t seem to explain why so many young men seem to be under the impression that it does teach violence.

And actually, the problem is worse for Catholics than for Muslim apologists, in a way. The Muslim young man may be a teenager, poorly educated and easily manipulated. But, with the possible exception of St. Bridget, the rest of the men listed were very well educated. Two of them were bishops. Furthermore, the Church honored the four men as Doctors of the Church, meaning that they were honored by the Church for what they wrote.

If their writings were contrary to Church teaching, then why were they honored for them, rather than condemned?
Have you read the catechism at all on this subject to see what the church actually teaches, rather than trying to interpret the Early church fathers yourself?"
scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c3a7.htm

Here are a couple of snippets to whet your interest:

1620 Both the sacrament of Matrimony and virginity for the Kingdom of God come from the Lord himself. It is he who gives them meaning and grants them the grace which is indispensable for living them out in conformity with his will. Esteem of virginity for the sake of the kingdom and the Christian understanding of marriage are inseparable, and they reinforce each other:
Whoever denigrates marriage also diminishes the glory of virginity. Whoever praises it makes virginity more admirable and resplendent. What appears good only in comparison with evil would not be truly good. The most excellent good is something even better than what is admitted to be good.

1641 “By reason of their state in life and of their order, [Christian spouses] have their own special gifts in the People of God.” This grace proper to the sacrament of Matrimony is intended to perfect the couple’s love and to strengthen their indissoluble unity. By this grace they “help one another to attain holiness in their married life and in welcoming and educating their children.”
I am aware of the risks, and I should qualify my statement. I believe it is safer to marry a devout Protestant than a devout Catholic. If the Catholic is lukewarm, or non practicing, it would proably be ok.

It’s quite simple. Protestant churches, at least the ones I was raised in, have such a positive view of marriage and family. They don’t argue amongst themselves about when a married couple should give up sex, or revere men who abandon their wives and children to live in a cave. Most of the holy people they look up to are from the Bible, and most of them were married and had families.

Catholics on the other hand…
I wonder how your view of Catholic Married life got so distorted. That’s not the way I see it at all. Catholic families are traditionallly large and close-knit and loving. I’ve never heard anyone denigrate Catholic family values like you are doing here. No Maybe the problem is that you’ve never actually lived in a Catholic family.

The Catholic Church is all about love and the more devout you truly are, the more loving you are. You would not be dissapointed with the family values of a truly devout Catholic man.
 
What did they write about marriage that has made you so upset?

Have you read the catechism at all on this subject to see what the church actually teaches, rather than trying to interpret the Early church fathers yourself?"
scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c3a7.htm

Here are a couple of snippets to whet your interest:

1620 Both the sacrament of Matrimony and virginity for the Kingdom of God come from the Lord himself. It is he who gives them meaning and grants them the grace which is indispensable for living them out in conformity with his will. Esteem of virginity for the sake of the kingdom and the Christian understanding of marriage are inseparable, and they reinforce each other:
Whoever denigrates marriage also diminishes the glory of virginity. Whoever praises it makes virginity more admirable and resplendent. What appears good only in comparison with evil would not be truly good. The most excellent good is something even better than what is admitted to be good.

1641 “By reason of their state in life and of their order, [Christian spouses] have their own special gifts in the People of God.” This grace proper to the sacrament of Matrimony is intended to perfect the couple’s love and to strengthen their indissoluble unity. By this grace they “help one another to attain holiness in their married life and in welcoming and educating their children.”
They wrote about how God simply permitted marriage for the sake of human weakness, the toleration of a lesser evil (marriage) in order to prevent greater evils (fornication and cohabitation.)

Basically, marriage sounded no different than a needle exchange program for drug addicts. “Ideally, none of you should be shooting up, but if you insist on shooting up, we’ll set up a needle exchange to keep you from getting AIDS.” And they emphasized how marriage impedes a person’s growth in holiness; St. Alphonsus seems to suggest that it is almost impossible for married couples to be saved.

If the Holy Father came out tomorrow and said, “The writings of any saint that suggest that marriage is simply a lesser form of evil and impede a person’s growth in holiness are anathema,” I would feel a lot better. I would stop worrying. But for all I know, these kinds of writings and teachings could come back tomorrow. 😦
 
I wonder how your view of Catholic Married life got so distorted. That’s not the way I see it at all. Catholic families are traditionallly large and close-knit and loving. I’ve never heard anyone denigrate Catholic family values like you are doing here. No Maybe the problem is that you’ve never actually lived in a Catholic family.

The Catholic Church is all about love and the more devout you truly are, the more loving you are. You would not be dissapointed with the family values of a truly devout Catholic man.
You know very little about Catholic men, that’s all I can say… No Catholic man that I know would react the way you suggest.
I hope you’re right.
 
…The Catholic Church changes her doctrines, and she changes them slowly, so people don’t notice. I like that.

That being said, I still think it’s safer to marry a Protestant than a Catholic. Fewer hangups.
Umm…I’m going to disagree with you that the Church changed her doctrine on marriage. Could you cite the problematic passages?
If that’s the case, then how do you explain people like St. Augustine, St. Jerome, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Alphonsus Ligouri, and St. Bridget of Sweden, and what they wrote about marriage?.. Furthermore, the Church honored the four men as Doctors of the Church, meaning that they were honored by the Church for what they wrote.…I am aware of the risks, and I should qualify my statement. I believe it is safer to marry a devout Protestant than a devout Catholic. If the Catholic is lukewarm, or non practicing, it would proably be ok.

It’s quite simple. Protestant churches, at least the ones I was raised in, have such a positive view of marriage and family. They don’t argue amongst themselves about when a married couple should give up sex, or revere men who abandon their wives and children to live in a cave. Most of the holy people they look up to are from the Bible, and most of them were married and had families.

Catholics on the other hand…
The people the Church has honored…doesn’t mean everything they literally did and say was infallible.

The question of what the Church taught can only be figured out through what was declared at councils. If you can’t find anything on marriage from the early councils, then that means the Church never definitely set into stone what marriage was. Not everything was declared in the beginning. What would be huge to your argument would be to find a council where they reached the conclusions of the said people. Until the Church officially declares it…theologians can speculate. All the doctors and saints you cited contributed magnificent things to the church…however the church is not these people literally.

The Muslim apologist does not have church councils to appeal to. The Muslim apologist is just the same as the Protestant where they can only appeal to Scripture or their book. They do not benefit from having a distinct Magesterium.

Protestant churches benefit from having a moving base. They have less to argue about because they are their own authority. They don’t like a pastor’s opinion, they can move elsewhere and the argument is resolved. What men are revered for abandoning their family??

I’m sorry you have such a negative view of Catholic men. Unfortunately today, the lack of Catechesis in the church has resulted in many ignorant Catholic men and women. However, there are some of us devout guys who are growing up with a correct understanding of what is expected of us. I heavily disagree that a devout Protestant is better than a devout Catholic…one is following Christ, and the other thinks he is following Christ but is not really.
 
Valient Lucy, this is not a snide question but a probing one. Are your faith issues with the Catholic Church in particular, or with God on a more general level? The reason why I ask is because the problem may not be the apologetics arguments for the Church at all. The issue may actually be something else entirely: The dark night of the senses.

In the three stages of the spiritual life, after the initial euphoria and entry into the purgative way, God gradually weans you from the pleasures and “certainty” of belief. Prayer does not give you the same pleasure, faith is essentially a chore. This is the first “dark night,” and is a period of spiritual dryness and doubt. If this is the case, the issue is not the dogmas of the Church, but rather your own spiritual journey. In this case, I would suggest speaking with a spiritual director/priest and devote yourself in particular to your prayer life, especially when you have doubts. This lack of certainty may not be true regret, but rather God working in your soul to draw out greater faith as part of His molding of your person.
 
Valient Lucy, this is not a snide question but a probing one. Are your faith issues with the Catholic Church in particular, or with God on a more general level? The reason why I ask is because the problem may not be the apologetics arguments for the Church at all. The issue may actually be something else entirely: The dark night of the senses.

In the three stages of the spiritual life, after the initial euphoria and entry into the purgative way, God gradually weans you from the pleasures and “certainty” of belief. Prayer does not give you the same pleasure, faith is essentially a chore. This is the first “dark night,” and is a period of spiritual dryness and doubt. If this is the case, the issue is not the dogmas of the Church, but rather your own spiritual journey. In this case, I would suggest speaking with a spiritual director/priest and devote yourself in particular to your prayer life, especially when you have doubts. This lack of certainty may not be true regret, but rather God working in your soul to draw out greater faith as part of His molding of your person.
Amen! Sage advice!
 
Umm…I’m going to disagree with you that the Church changed her doctrine on marriage. Could you cite the problematic passages?

The people the Church has honored…doesn’t mean everything they literally did and say was infallible.

The question of what the Church taught can only be figured out through what was declared at councils. If you can’t find anything on marriage from the early councils, then that means the Church never definitely set into stone what marriage was. Not everything was declared in the beginning. What would be huge to your argument would be to find a council where they reached the conclusions of the said people. Until the Church officially declares it…theologians can speculate. All the doctors and saints you cited contributed magnificent things to the church…however the church is not these people literally.

The Muslim apologist does not have church councils to appeal to. The Muslim apologist is just the same as the Protestant where they can only appeal to Scripture or their book. They do not benefit from having a distinct Magesterium.

Protestant churches benefit from having a moving base. They have less to argue about because they are their own authority. They don’t like a pastor’s opinion, they can move elsewhere and the argument is resolved.
Point taken. And helpful, actually.
What men are revered for abandoning their family??
St. Nicholas of Flue
saints.sqpn.com/saint-nicholas-of-flue/

According to Secular Saints, by Joan Carrol Cruz, his tenth child had just been born when he went to live in a cave.
I’m sorry you have such a negative view of Catholic men. Unfortunately today, the lack of Catechesis in the church has resulted in many ignorant Catholic men and women. However, there are some of us devout guys who are growing up with a correct understanding of what is expected of us. I heavily disagree that a devout Protestant is better than a devout Catholic…one is following Christ, and the other thinks he is following Christ but is not really.
I don’t have a negative view of Catholic men per say. I just worry that, if a man becomes a devout Catholic, he may also become a worse husband, because his faith might get in the way.
 
Valient Lucy, this is not a snide question but a probing one. Are your faith issues with the Catholic Church in particular, or with God on a more general level? The reason why I ask is because the problem may not be the apologetics arguments for the Church at all. The issue may actually be something else entirely: The dark night of the senses.

In the three stages of the spiritual life, after the initial euphoria and entry into the purgative way, God gradually weans you from the pleasures and “certainty” of belief. Prayer does not give you the same pleasure, faith is essentially a chore. This is the first “dark night,” and is a period of spiritual dryness and doubt. If this is the case, the issue is not the dogmas of the Church, but rather your own spiritual journey. In this case, I would suggest speaking with a spiritual director/priest and devote yourself in particular to your prayer life, especially when you have doubts. This lack of certainty may not be true regret, but rather God working in your soul to draw out greater faith as part of His molding of your person.
Amen! Sage advice!
Maybe. I’ll have to give this some thought.
 
But for all I know, these kinds of writings and teachings could come back tomorrow. 😦
It’s in the works. Evangelical Catholicism is on the rise, which means more Catholics will return to traditional teachings that reinforce Catholic identity. This means a return to Vatican I and its teachings on marriage.

Stay away from Croatians!
 
I don’t have a negative view of Catholic men per say. I just worry that, if a man becomes a devout Catholic, he may also become a worse husband, because his faith might get in the way.
Why would you ever think that love of God is inconsistent with love of family? In fact, its just the opposite. When love grows, it covers all bases.

Lucy, a good marriage consists of both partners working for the other’s happiness. And if love of God isn’t part of that, then the happiness will be limited. True happiness comes from fulfilling the will of God for you
 
Point taken. And helpful, actually.
I don’t have a negative view of Catholic men per say. I just worry that, if a man becomes a devout Catholic, he may also become a worse husband, because his faith might get in the way
I think you are looking at this the wrong way. A devout Catholic man, who has a great love for God will actually show it to you, in the way he treats you, in the way he loves you, in the way he will raise both your children, in the way he leads his life-it will be Christ centered and and so your life together will be too.
 
It’s in the works. Evangelical Catholicism is on the rise, which means more Catholics will return to traditional teachings that reinforce Catholic identity. This means a return to Vatican I and its teachings on marriage.

Stay away from Croatians!
:confused:
 
Point taken. And helpful, actually.

St. Nicholas of Flue
saints.sqpn.com/saint-nicholas-of-flue/

According to Secular Saints, by Joan Carrol Cruz, his tenth child had just been born when he went to live in a cave.

I don’t have a negative view of Catholic men per say. I just worry that, if a man becomes a devout Catholic, he may also become a worse husband, because his faith might get in the way.
Regarding St. Nicholas of Flue…

After living about twenty-five years in wedlock he listened to an inspiration of God and with the consent of his wife left his family on 16 October, 1467, to live as a hermit. At first he intended to go to a foreign country, but when he came into the neighborhood of Basle, a divine inspiration ordered him to take up his abode in the Ranft, a valley along the Melcha, about an hour’s walk from Sachseln. Here, known as “Brother Klaus”, he abode over twenty years, without taking any bodily food or drink, as was established through a careful investigation, made by the civil as well as the ecclesiastical authorities of his times. He wore neither shoes nor cap, and even in winter was clad merely in a hermit’s gown. In 1468 he saved the town of Sarnen from a conflagration by his prayers and the sign of the cross. God also favored him with numerous visions and the gift of prophecy. Distinguished persons from nearly every country of Europe came to him for counsel in matters of the utmost importance.

This man, with permission from his wife and family, had a powerful calling to serve God, unlike the majority of men. Resultingly, he saved a town and its inhabitants from fire and was consulted for matters of great importance. I think given the context, it wasn’t a bad thing.
 
St. Nicholas of Flue
saints.sqpn.com/saint-nicholas-of-flue/

According to Secular Saints, by Joan Carrol Cruz, his tenth child had just been born when he went to live in a cave.
.
Is he actually a canonized saint (i.e., officially recognized by the Church? I ask because there are hundreds of people who are called “St.” and recognized in popular piety but are not on the Church’s official canon. St. Philomena would be an example, I believe.
 
Is he actually a canonized saint (i.e., officially recognized by the Church? I ask because there are hundreds of people who are called “St.” and recognized in popular piety but are not on the Church’s official canon. St. Philomena would be an example, I believe.
He was canonized in 1947 and is the patron saint of Switzerland.
 
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