What do you do when someone physically tries to take the blessed sacrament from you?

[maryjk]

If they are Catholic, why were they being Baptized in another church?

 

[tifischer]

Both priests have agreed that your son may be baptized in a Protestant community, attend Protestant services, be raised according to the Protestant faith, and yet continue to receive Catholic communion brought to a Protestant church?

That is not what I said or you said.

The children are 7 and 8 and their dad wanted them baptized in his church…that does not make the children no longer Catholic. The children did what their father told them they needed to do. I asked the children if they are already baptized and the Holy Spirit is already with them and they said yes. The best I knew to address this issue…and don’t judge because I don’t recall anyone offering help to any one including me in this situation (as if divorce has not been happening for a long time) …was to explain that even Catholics when confirmed make their own baptismal vows and they will too when they are ready. The children wanted me to be there when they make their baptismal vow at their dad’s church. The Catholic church does honor baptism at other churches so if there was anything inherently wrong to do no one told me or told me that I need to teach my children so and that would mean that we the church need to be better at catechism. Feel free to write the Bishop.

You know what would be great is if there were a lot more helpful suggestions and less accusations and pointing fingers and criticism of me doing the best I knew how in this situation…even the pastor of the non-denomination said “we are not anti-Catholic”. And if anyone believes it was not a good idea does not mean that I had any reason to believe it was a bad idea.

 

[tifischer]

Fred, ultimately a person has to square their behaviours with God in conscience examination, but earlier in the thread the OP revealed the real nature of their situation…

In such notoriously tense situations as custody disputes and new wives, there is little love lost. To attend a Protestant initiation ceremony in a Protestant Church for your Catholic children arranged by an ex and stepmother in this environment… is so obviously not one to be taking Catholic communion into the midst of. It is inherently antagonistic to do such a thing.

Thanks be to God I am a loving and forgiving Christian so the situation is not tense or antagonistic because the pastor said the church is not anti-Catholic. What are you referring to when you say “little love lost”?

 

[fred_conty]

Fred, ultimately a person has to square their behaviours with God in conscience examination, but earlier in the thread the OP revealed the real nature of their situation…

In such notoriously tense situations as custody disputes and new wives, there is little love lost. To attend a Protestant initiation ceremony in a Protestant Church for your Catholic children arranged by an ex and stepmother in this environment… is so obviously not one to be taking Catholic communion into the midst of. It is inherently antagonistic to do such a thing.

She discovered this after the fact, but before the fact didn’t know.

If I had done this, your opinion of me would have been right. But she didn’t understand what the proper thing to do was. She simply needs help in her understanding.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.

 

[twf]

That is not what I said or you said.

The children are 7 and 8 and their dad wanted them baptized in his church…that does not make the children no longer Catholic. The children did what their father told them they needed to do. I asked the children if they are already baptized and the Holy Spirit is already with them and they said yes. The best I knew to address this issue…and don’t judge because I don’t recall anyone offering help to any one including me in this situation (as if divorce has not been happening for a long time) …was to explain that even Catholics when confirmed make their own baptismal vows and they will too when they are ready. The children wanted me to be there when they make their baptismal vow at their dad’s church. The Catholic church does honor baptism at other churches so if there was anything inherently wrong to do no one told me or told me that I need to teach my children so and that would mean that we the church need to be better at catechism. Feel free to write the Bishop.

You know what would be great is if there were a lot more helpful suggestions and less accusations and pointing fingers and criticism of me doing the best I knew how in this situation…even the pastor of the non-denomination said “we are not anti-Catholic”. And if anyone believes it was not a good idea does not mean that I had any reason to believe it was a bad idea.

The Catholic Church honors Protestant baptisms (in most cases anyway) when the individual has not been previously baptized. A second attempt at baptism is an affront on the sanctity of the original Catholic baptism and could never be honored by the Church. This is not your son’s fault, but it is an unfortunate situation. I started my first post by stating that I was sure your intentions were good. You are responding to all of us (me and the other posters on this thread) as if we were attacking you. That is not the intent. My concerns are around whether it is right / prudent to bring holy communion to someone being baptized in a Protestant community, not your intentions. I’m sorry if you felt attacked.

 

[oneofmany]

From someone who had been in a divorce situation myself. I married a divorced man. I think it is unwise to interact with the children when they are at their father’s home. Wait until they are with you, then you can do what you want with them and vice verse. That takes care of lots of problems.

As far as going to a lawyer for abuse for rubber band snapping, etc. I would not do it. The children are then put in the middle of he said she said and it gets messy. All that does is open the door for counselors to be called in to mediate and runs into money to pay all the so called experts. Nothing is accomplished really but getting tension raised for all and the children suffer.

I hope you can step back and think what is best for the kids. Having their parents and step-parents fighting is not good for them even if you have to bite your tongue a lot.

 

[djames99]

Just pray for him. It’s effect is not gained by the thief. The sin of stealing is. Whether or not he knows the seriousness of the act will determine the degree of sin. In the case where it can be recovered, it should be given the reverence due and disposed in the proper manner.

 

[tifischer]

She discovered this after the fact, but before the fact didn’t know.

If I had done this, your opinion of me would have been right. But she didn’t understand what the proper thing to do was. She simply needs help in her understanding.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.

Thank everyone who posted with the heartfelt intentions to help in this difficult situation. I spoke with a lady from our church about this situation and what she did was awesome and I wanted to share. First I should mention from a number of people unfortunately I did get a bit of criticism or suggested no help at all. Like Fred here this woman that I spoke with focused on the issue being the lack of understanding of the mass. She took this time to lift up the mass and every word she spoke regarding the beauty holiness and sanctity of the mass was awesome. In stead of making me doubt the importance of serving communion to those who are sick, or homeless, or somehow physically detained, she reminded me of my son and my love of the mass and the Eucharist. She spoke about the angles and saints being present at mass and the heavens opening when the priest asks the Holy Spirit to come upon the bread and how we kneel because in reverence with all of the heavenly angels and saints praying with us. Awesome also was this being the first day I had picked up the Blessed Mother Pilgrim statue and only an hour or two later I met in lengthy discussion this wonderful woman so devoted to the Blessed Mother.

God made this lesson more profound. The day after I spoke with the lady at the church I went to get a book at the Catholics book store for my daughter about St Catherine of Sienna. I could not find the children’s version so I purchased a children’s DVD called The Greatest Miracle, Angels Are All Around Us and by the grace of God it was about the Holiness of the mass. During the movie they read from the Bible the same story that we read right before the movie…because we had just revived a pilgrim statue of the Blessed mother of Fatima we wanted to pray at least a decade together as a family everyday and that day we started with the first mystery the story of the annunciation and read the chapter from the Bible. Although, I confess we did not get to pray a decade everyday sadly but prayed in some way. I pray we do better next week by God’s grace.

This was also so amazing because my daughter (7) the weekend before the DVD had a vision of what she thought looked like a white butterfly flying up from the alter towards Jesus above (I can’t remember when … either before or after when we were sitting)…I had to explain to her that there was not a white butterfly in the church and that it must have been an angel that she saw.

Then the next day after we watched the movie my oldest son woke and came into my room while I was working at my desk. My son and I were discussing the events God had revealed to us the day before and why it was important. Then God wanted me to turn on my radio to hear the homily at that very moment I turned on my radio to hear the mass and the priest was first speaking of concentration camps and then changed to say how important the communion is. It was the Holy Spirit in the priest that guided him to have the words that he wanted Dylan to hear about communion…So amazing.

No one should be denied the Eucharist because of the lack of control of their situation…whether sickness, homeless, in prison, or physically detained. My only real problem was the lack of training that people may really try to take or harm the Eucharist and how to handle that situation if it came up… Otherwise, I was invited, my son’s heart desires the Eucharist, my love and motive was sincere, I was among Christians, it should be illegal to knowingly forcefully take and desecrate someone else’s Holy possessions.

 

[oneofmany]

Now that you know how the Eucharist might be handled by these people I hope you never take a chance with it again that it may be treated the same way. One time is enough.

 

[LongingSoul]

My only real problem was the lack of training that people may really try to take or harm the Eucharist and how to handle that situation if it came up…

Why do you think the stepmother did that?

 

[PaulinVA]

This is a mess.

From the Nicene Creed:

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come.

How as a Catholic can one participate in the baptism in a protestant church of one’s children without seeing that as a repudiation of their Catholic baptism?

And then to administer Holy Communion in a protestant church?

I’m scratching my head here. Was the approval obtained from a Catholic parish in communion with the Diocesan Bishop?

 

[Mary_Ellen]

I’m scratching my head here. Was the approval obtained from a Catholic parish in communion with the Diocesan Bishop?

Well, even a diocesan priests can make mistakes, especially in the name of “being pastoral”. It doesn’t make what they say correct and they can lead others into error. We have priests in our diocese who support women’s ordination and gay “marriage”, too.

 

[tifischer]

This is a mess.

From the Nicene Creed:

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come.

How as a Catholic can one participate in the baptism in a protestant church of one’s children without seeing that as a repudiation of their Catholic baptism?

And then to administer Holy Communion in a protestant church?

I’m scratching my head here. Was the approval obtained from a Catholic parish in communion with the Diocesan Bishop?

All good questions. Keep in mind these children are 7 and 8 and to not create too much discord with their dad I did my best to tip toe around the issue. Perhaps with help for us in our situation I could have come up with a better way to handle the situation…but I did the best I knew and was guided (If you have a better way of handling please share incase someone else has this problem). I have only been Catholic for 4 years and before then I had no religious upbringing. So, one baptism I understand and I was sure to talk to my children about there being only one Baptism and that the Holy Spirit never abandons them. They understood that. However, their dad converted from atheist (raised Catholic) to non-denomination when he met his new wife. I talked to the kids about when they get older they will make their own baptismal vows at confirmation. I thought that this would basically be them making their baptismal vow at this non-denominational church and that is all it could be because they are already baptized. However, upon further talking to the children I realized that they did not know what baptism signifies or the stories of Baptism. So I spent a lot of time teaching them about it. I was disappointed when I went to the ceremony that it was not at all like our church. Although the Jacuzzi tub looked fun the vows were not quite so reverent and the entire community did not share in the renewing of their baptismal vows as our church does.

As stated previously yes I did have permission from a Catholic church within the Diocese and that is where I received the pyx and host from this one time for a special occasion. As stated before my son wants to go to mass every day and since he is with his dad every other weekend he cannot. Knowing how much my son loves to receive communion I wanted to bring him communion because I thought it would mean so much to him. This was the only time that I had been in their church because I was invited last minute by the dad because the kids were upset when they found out I was not coming because I was not invited …although I had spoken with the paster over the phone who spoke very respectfully of Catholics, which I appreciated so I had not worries about attending after mass. The pastor was also very apologetic regarding what had transpired.

Prayers for us please in this difficult situation.

 

[tifischer]

Someone gave me a great suggestions as to what to do. A friend encouraged me to life up the mass. I have been doing just that. I bought this great movie for children about the mass called the Greatest Miracle and the kids love it. I talk more often about the importance of the mass when we attend mass. I hope to be better to lift other up about the mass too…I have it in mind to speak with a certain non-denomination minister even about it : ) I tried to ofter the movie to the children’s dad but they did not want it. Come to find out the step-mom is very anti-Catholic. Since this even there have been a number of conversations that the dad has sent being disrespectful of our faith…it is so bad that my 7 year old daughter did not think she was allowed to wear crosses and falsely accused us of worshiping Mary. After a letter informing him of his mistake in falsely accusing us, the dad has since gotten a Catechism of the Catholic church.

After much discernment, I also made a police report.

If anyone else has any suggestions, please let me know.

Blessings!