What do you do when your spouse does not embrace the EF?

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maryjk said:
Okay, wow. So she hasn’t actually attended an entire Mass? Do you think maybe this is the reason that she isn’t happy about it.

Sorry, but I read what you wrote and thought Duh. I mean really. Your wife doesn’t like going to a Mass where she ends up leaving early EVERY SINGLE TIME. While you, on the other hand stay and receive Our Lord? And you don’t understand why she feels this way? Really???

May I suggest that you attend the EF, alone, until such time that you can make the “walk of shame” with the children? Until that time, go to the OF with your family. Then additionally, attend the EF.
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He never said he didn’t understand. Your response to him is over-the-top.
 
Lucky7 said:
He never said he didn’t understand. Your response to him is over-the-top.
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PietroPaolo said:
In my enthusiasm I didn’t really think about that aspect of her experience.
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Okay, he does understand, he just didn’t think about it.

I understand the enthusiasm that some people have for the EF. But to not realize that your spouse leaves EVERY SINGLE MASS and that they even call it “the walk of shame,” is to say the least really, really sad.
 
maryjk said:
Sorry, but I read what you wrote and thought Duh. I mean really. Your wife doesn’t like going to a Mass where she ends up leaving early EVERY SINGLE TIME. While you, on the other hand stay and receive Our Lord? And you don’t understand why she feels this way? Really???
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To clarify, she never called it the walk of shame until last night after I mentioned in passing that I posted a question here. Prior to that she had only mentioned that she didn’t like the EF and preferred the OF. We talked about the differences in the two forms and the differences between them and what she grew up with, but the whole walk of shame aspect of her dislike of the EF wasn’t stated until last night. Of course, I realized leaving before the Mass ends is frustrating, but with time the kids will adjust to the EF and learn to be able to sit through the entire Mass. Honestly, until last night, leaving early seemed like a temporary problem and hardly a reason to dislike the EF.
 
Lucky7 said:
I’m also a bit concerned with the many comments that it will be too hard to convert her with the EF. I am a convert and, although I found the OF easier to understand, who is to say that if the EF was the only mass available that I would not have converted anyway? God converts us…through whatever means He chooses. And many converts converted when there was no OF.
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Honestly, I thought the EF would help. One of the greatest, if not the greatest, benefits of converting is being able to receive the Eucharist. The EF emphasizes the Real Presence more so than the OF (at least IMHO). Therefore, the EF ought to help deepen the thirst for communion. Or so I reasoned.
 
Lucky7 said:
OK, really, I don’t get this. I am not arguing that it is not difficult, but didn’t mothers do this for centuries then? What about St Elizabeth Ann Seton?
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I’m not sure what you are getting at here. Are you saying that you don’t agree with the suggestion that a husband could give his wife the opportunity to go to another Mass (in addition to their weekly obligation as a family) without the kids, because Catholics in the past have not had that option? :confused:

Yes, it is difficult for Catholic mothers with children (especially very young children) at Mass to focus on the Mass, no matter what language it’s in, but especially when it’s in a language she doesn’t understand. Yes, it can be done. Yes, many women have done it before and many are doing it today. But, yes, it is difficult.

The poster was not saying that it’s impossible for moms to have their children at Mass and still make a spiritual connection with God, but rather that it could be helpful and a blessing for her husband to give her the opportunity to spend some time at Mass without the children. (Adoration could be another option.) No one is saying that he has to do this, but it would be a way to love his wife, and to help her on her spiritual journey.

Does that help clear things up at all? 🙂
 
Cat said:
I’m concerned about your use of the word “fan.”

The Mass is not a theatrical or athletic event…

Jesus is Truly Present, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity, in both the EF and the OF Mass.

Jesus should be your focus, not the form of the Mass. Your wife and children need JESUS, and it doesn’t matter which Mass they attend, because He will be there for them. Even though they will not be able to receive Him in Holy Communion until they are Catholic, Jesus’ Presence will strengthen them in the Mass. Don’t make any decision that may cause your wife to stay away from the Mass entirely.

Perhaps you used the word “fan” because it was the only word that came to your mind as you wrote. But I recommend that you stop using this word when it comes to the Holy Mass. Instead, say that “I have a preference for…” I think that sounds less like the Mass is a show. I really think that all Catholics need to stop thinking of the Mass as “performance” and start concentrating on Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, and on His Word. JMO, and I hope it’s helpful.
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I appreciate your passion, but I do not think the poster really is looking at this as a sporting event or show. He was just using a figure of speech that should not be interpreted as if it were anything else.
 
Mike30 said:
Interesting statement. Why would she be more comfortable at an Ordinary Form Mass?
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Because the novus ordo is much more similar to a mainline Protestant service than a traditional mass would be. And familiarity creates comfort.
 
Reborn2013 said:
Because the novus ordo is much more similar to a mainline Protestant service than a traditional mass would be. And familiarity creates comfort.
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I was unaware that there were such similarities as I have never been to a protestant service nor do I actually have any desire to do so. I do know that at times people make statements that indicate the Ordinary Form Mass is actually extremely similar to a protestant service, but they are quickly shut down by others who say there is no similarity at all between the two.

Just trying to figure things out. It cannot be both ways.
 
Mike30 said:
I was unaware that there were such similarities as I have never been to a protestant service nor do I actually have any desire to do so. I do know that at times people make statements that indicate the Ordinary Form Mass is actually extremely similar to a protestant service, but they are quickly shut down by others who say there is no similarity at all between the two.

Just trying to figure things out. It cannot be both ways.
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The Anglican Mass is very close to an EF Catholic Mass in fact, except for the language, in fact probably closer to the EF than the OF, again except for language. At least using the Book of Common Prayer. In the Book of Alternative Services, it’s a bit more fuzzy, but it still has most of the recognizable elements of a Catholic Mass.

That is likely the case for any liturgical Protestant Church, like the Lutherans.

I do occasionally go to Anglican services. My wife is Anglican. While we both regularly attend our own respective services, on special occasions we attend each others’ services. I have some very good friends in her church. I actually enjoy attending. It doesn’t replace Mass (in fact on days when I do go to her service I have to go to a different Mass to fulfill my obligation).

At the very least, someone coming from a Protestant background will be more at home with the language and the participatory aspects of a Catholic OF Mass. Many, if not most, from a Protestant background, won’t have any exposure to Latin at all, whereas many, if not most, Catholics will at least recognize words from some common prayers like the Gloria, Pater Noster, Credo, etc. Incidentally I go to an OF Mass where the entire propers and ordinary are chanted in Latin Gregorian chant (except for the Kyrie of course…)
 
It might help if we distinguish two different ways of viewing the Mass, the objective and the subjective.

On the objective level the Mass (OF or EF) has nothing in common with anything else. The Mass (assuming a valid Eucharist, which makes it the Mass) is the re-presentation of Calvary with all that entails. A protestant service is a bunch of prayers and singing lead by a lay person (in Catholic eyes as they do not have valid orders). Two such things could hardly be more different.

On the subjective level the OF looks and sounds much more similar to some Protestant services than the EF. The music is similar (even sometimes identical), the priest faces the people, less use of incense, more lay involvement (EMHC’s, lay readers, etc), less kneeling and genuflecting, use of the vernacular, etc. Also, OF parish churches tend to look closer to Protestant churches (not cruciform, glass doors, less statues, less visible crucifix, table as altar, etc) than do EF parish churches, although that is a gross oversimplification.
 
PietroPaolo said:
It might help if we distinguish two different ways of viewing the Mass, the objective and the subjective.

On the objective level the Mass (OF or EF) has nothing in common with anything else. The Mass (assuming a valid Eucharist, which makes it the Mass) is the re-presentation of Calvary with all that entails. A protestant service is a bunch of prayers and singing lead by a lay person (in Catholic eyes as they do not have valid orders). Two such things could hardly be more different.

On the subjective level the OF looks and sounds much more similar to some Protestant services than the EF. The music is similar (even sometimes identical), the priest faces the people, less use of incense, more lay involvement (EMHC’s, lay readers, etc), less kneeling and genuflecting, use of the vernacular, etc. Also, OF parish churches tend to look closer to Protestant churches (not cruciform, glass doors, less statues, less visible crucifix, table as altar, etc) than do EF parish churches, although that is a gross oversimplification.
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Interesting. After years of reading on these forums that there are no similarities and seeing postersalmost immediately set upon when they claim there were, I have learned today that there are in fact many similarities.

As I said, very interesting indeed.
 
PietroPaolo said:
To clarify, she never called it the walk of shame until last night after I mentioned in passing that I posted a question here. Prior to that she had only mentioned that she didn’t like the EF and preferred the OF. We talked about the differences in the two forms and the differences between them and what she grew up with, but the whole walk of shame aspect of her dislike of the EF wasn’t stated until last night. Of course, I realized leaving before the Mass ends is frustrating, but with time the kids will adjust to the EF and learn to be able to sit through the entire Mass. Honestly, until last night, leaving early seemed like a temporary problem and hardly a reason to dislike the EF.
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I’m confused. I’ve been to both masses. They are equal in length. Why does she end up leaving the EF sooner?
 
PietroPaolo said:
Honestly, I thought the EF would help. One of the greatest, if not the greatest, benefits of converting is being able to receive the Eucharist. The EF emphasizes the Real Presence more so than the OF (at least IMHO). Therefore, the EF ought to help deepen the thirst for communion. Or so I reasoned.
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I can see that. The last time I attended the EF the experience when I received communion was something I don’t think I’ve experienced since first converting. HOWEVER, it took me about 4 EF’s before I felt more comfortable,e tc.

Like I said, see if she’ll be willing to go once per month. I think you guys can work out a compromise (ie. win-win).
 
PietroPaolo said:
Hi Everyone,

I’ve recently taken the wife and kids down to a local EF Mass for the last 3 weeks as a way of exploring the liturgy more fully. I have become a big fan of the EF and would like to continue to go to this parish, however the wife is not such a big fan and would like to return to our old OF parish or find a new parish altogether. I’m not sure if I should push the EF or not. Any suggestions? On a side note, I’m a recent convert (confirmed last Easter) and the wife is not a Catholic (although she is well on her way). Thanks in advance.
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Dude, given your scenario, OF! Don’t make it hard on your wife. Trust me, I am going through this myself and I made bad decisions when it came to this very thing. Take my word for it.
 
codefro said:
Dude, given your scenario, OF! Don’t make it hard on your wife. Trust me, I am going through this myself and I made bad decisions when it came to this very thing. Take my word for it.
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See, I’m a wife and I would want my husband to be happy too.
 
Lucky7 said:
I can see that. The last time I attended the EF the experience when I received communion was something I don’t think I’ve experienced since first converting. HOWEVER, it took me about 4 EF’s before I felt more comfortable,e tc.

Like I said, see if she’ll be willing to go once per month. I think you guys can work out a compromise (ie. win-win).
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That would make sense if the wife actually was able to be there for that. But by that time, she is already in the car with two kids, nursing one of them, waiting for her husband to come out.
 
I would totally just stick with the OF, until such time as she is Catholic and comfortable with trying the EF (and I would imagine that comfort will only come with increased understanding of Catholic stuff).

OF, OF, OF. Forget the EF for now.
 
Lucky7 said:
I’m confused. I’ve been to both masses. They are equal in length. Why does she end up leaving the EF sooner?
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Our EF (Missa Cantata) runs about 90 minutes (pastor gives long sermons), our OF about 50 minutes. Plus we have a converted choir loft which now is a cry room, so if the kids fuss up we head upstairs rather than to the car.
 
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