What do you do when

[raindr0ps]

What do you do when all the reasoning in the world doesn’t make you want to attend mass, adoration, or pray.

When doing so anyways is nothing but an obligation and is spent wallowing in doubts.

When you haven’t sensed the presence of God in your remembered life and have no aesthetical reason to believe.

When knowing isn’t enough, faith doesn’t exist, and you’re not sure if you’ve ever wholly believed in anything.

And when you’ve spent from middle-school onward faking it, hoping someday to make it, but knowing that you’re nothing but an agnostic at best at heart.

I just don’t know how much longer I can carry on with this. It’s frustrating.

 

[jmcrae]

What do you do when all the reasoning in the world doesn’t make you want to attend mass, adoration, or pray.

When doing so anyways is nothing but an obligation and is spent wallowing in doubts.

When you haven’t sensed the presence of God in your remembered life and have no aesthetical reason to believe.

When knowing isn’t enough, faith doesn’t exist, and you’re not sure if you’ve ever wholly believed in anything.

And when you’ve spent from middle-school onward faking it, hoping someday to make it, but knowing that you’re nothing but an agnostic at best at heart.

Keep on going, anyway. For forty years, Blessed Teresa of Calcutta could not hear the voice of God in her heart, or sense His presence anywhere, not even in the Tabernacle, or at Mass. She did not give up on her faith, but kept on with her ministries and kept on going to Mass, even though she couldn’t feel anything.

Her faithful perseverance paid off.

Today, she is working miracles in Heaven, and will soon be considered a Saint.

I just don’t know how much longer I can carry on with this. It’s frustrating.

Don’t think about “how long.” Just think, one day at a time, or one hour at a time. Stay in the moment, and just be faithful to God in the moment, without worrying about the future.

 

[RSD]

Keep on going, anyway. For forty years, Blessed Teresa of Calcutta could not hear the voice of God in her heart, or sense His presence anywhere, not even in the Tabernacle, or at Mass. She did not give up on her faith, but kept on with her ministries and kept on going to Mass, even though she couldn’t feel anything.

Her faithful perseverance paid off.

Today, she is working miracles in Heaven, and will soon be considered a Saint.

Don’t think about “how long.” Just think, one day at a time, or one hour at a time. Stay in the moment, and just be faithful to God in the moment, without worrying about the future.

Yes, that.

 

[LilyM]

The same thing you do when you wake up in the morning and don’t want to go to work or school or to visit Great Aunt Ethel in the nursing home - you get off your butt and do it anyway.

Because following through on your commitments, even on occasions where it’s not the most enjoyable or pleasant thing in the world, is part of being a mature adult. It’s called fidelity.

 

[Edward_H]

Well, maybe you’re attached to your intellect and maybe to your feelings. Maybe those are in the way, so to speak.

We can’t let any attachment get in the way of our relationship with our Father God. Nothing, however treasured we are inclined or habituated toward them. Our whole heart, soul, mind, strength, our memory, our feelings, our imagination, our treasured little intellect.

From the Forge: point 485 (Saint Josemaria Escriva). It’s powerful and beautiful and quite true.

"At times, someone has told me: “Father, I feel tired and cold; when I pray or fulfil some other norm of piety, I seem to be acting out a farce…”

To that friend, and to you, if you are in the same boat, I answer: A farce? —What an excellent thing, my child! Act out that farce! The Lord is your audience — the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Blessed Trinity is contemplating us in those moments when we are “acting out a farce”.

Acting like that in front of God, out of love, in order to please him, when our whole life goes against the grain: how splendid, to be God’s juggler! How marvellous it is to play one’s part for Love, with sacrifice, without any personal satisfaction, just in order to please Our Lord!

—That indeed is to live for Love."

 

[the_phoenix]

What do you do when all the reasoning in the world doesn’t make you want to attend mass, adoration, or pray.

Since you’re asking this right now, I make myself go anyways to adoration, even though I happen to be really tired this particular evening and would like to stay home and relax. My scheduled hour is from 11:00 p.m. to midnight. I need to leave in fifteen minutes to be on time.

I’m an adult who made a commitment to God and my parish Eucharistic Adoration Team, so I’m going. And will even do my utmost best to stay awake the whole time.

At some point in the future I’m sure I’ll be very glad and thankful I went.

So I’m just simply doing it.

And that’s all I’ve got to say about that.

 

[PAboy57]

you are being tested or
the evil one is really messing with your mind or
you are in the biggest rut you can imagine or
like my dad he hated his job and went to work for 35 years and worked overtime

our life is just a blink of an eye when it comes to eternity. God is true and He is walking with you each step you take. you may not feel Him right now but he is there and picking you up each time you feel like giving it up.

whatever you do don’t give up. trust me because i gave up for 35 years and ignored Him and didn’t go to Church – i even had success but my life was empty and my heart was sad. there was a void and eventually He allowed me to open my heart and Jesus and Mary came into my heart. I was lost and then I was found.

Love isn’t all those funny crazy emotions. Love is doing what is right eventhough you just don’t feel like doing it. It is giving of yourself, just like the other poster mentioned, when you find it so hard to do. I’m tired and beat right now but just had to answer you so this would be there when you came back to read. Love is making sure you get your wife to heaven not calling her pumpkin and rubbing her feet although she likes that she wants you to get her to heaven.

jumpstart your life. throw yourself into a project to give of yourself to benefit others. see the joy you bring them. look at a cripple who sings praise to God. Do something but don’t give up.

That evil scumbag, not worth a name, wants you to burn in hell forever and you are way too smart for that. Look at the Stations of the Cross and remind yourself what Jesus did for you, and He knew you 2000 years before you took your first breath. That is love!!!

Sit down and talk with a holy person and get a fresh perspective on how God is in everything. How could all this complicated stuff exist without God – we can’t even scratch the surface of how our own body works after all this time. We learn something magnficant each day.

Pick yourself up – go visit God at His place and thank Him from the bottom of your heart for everthing you have that makes your life better. Start praying the Rosary each day and I promise that our Blessed Mother will fix your heart and mind.

That’s what I started doing 5 years ago and it opens up a new world for you. Just a prayer to get you going:

MEMORARE,
Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thy intercession, was left unaided. Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my Mother. To thee do I come; before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me. Amen

May Almighty God touch your heart and mind so you let Jesus and Mary in this very moment.

 

[Thyme]

I have been going through the same problems.

How I keep on going is by remembering the miracles- such as the incorruptible saints, the Eucharistic miracles, apparitions and their impossible to deny miracles (such as Our Lady of Fatima), answered prayers etc…

They help with my belief.

What is helping me to love God is to remember everything He has done for us; persisting with the Israelites even when they turned to idols, sacrificing His only Son for our sins, leaving us with the Church, allowing Saints to pray for us, answering our prayers even if we are doubtful, forgiving our sins no matter how often we commit them and constantly promoting unconditional love for one-an-other.

I have never met someone as perfect as God is, and this is what helps me when I am losing faith. I hope this might help you too.

Also, read some quotes from the Diary of St. Faustina: catholic-forum.com/churches/cathteach/divinemercy1.htm

Thanks to her diary, I am a practising Catholic again.

 

[NotReligous]

What do you do when all the reasoning in the world doesn’t make you want to attend mass, adoration, or pray.

When doing so anyways is nothing but an obligation and is spent wallowing in doubts.

When you haven’t sensed the presence of God in your remembered life and have no aesthetical reason to believe.

When knowing isn’t enough, faith doesn’t exist, and you’re not sure if you’ve ever wholly believed in anything.

And when you’ve spent from middle-school onward faking it, hoping someday to make it, but knowing that you’re nothing but an agnostic at best at heart.

I just don’t know how much longer I can carry on with this. It’s frustrating.

Well, I have experienced most of these…and I turned out to be an atheist. If you find the answer, share it with me.

EDIT; And to the guy above, ‘the Miracle of the sun’ was nothing but an optical illusion, and when you add religious people and press to that it turns to a miracle. How do I know this? Well, let me quote wikipedia;

“Nickell adds that at Conyers whilst pilgrims were witnessing a Sun Miracle [24] “the Georgia Skeptics group set up a telescope outfitted with a vision-protecting Mylar solar filter” and that “more than two hundred people had viewed the sun through one of the solar filters and not a single person saw anything unusual””

Funny, eh? There is more;

“Despite these assertions, not all witnesses reported seeing the sun “dance”. Some people only saw the radiant colors. Others, including some believers, saw nothing at all.[28][29] No scientific accounts exist of any unusual solar or astronomic activity during the time the sun was reported to have “danced”, and there are no witness reports of any unusual solar phenomenon further than 64 kilometres (40 mi) out from Cova da Iria.[30]”

Here is a most likely picture of what they saw;

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filearhelion_2005_close.jpg

And another thing, what does the sun have to do with the Catholic church? I mean, sun “miracles” have been witnessed by every religion since the beginning of mankind! They are simply optical illusions, and the fact that you could filter the miracle with some glass already proofs it. I am more than sure, that they would have made almost anything a miracle that day. A rainbow, or anything slightly off the ordinary.

So if you disagree, please reply to my points.

 

[fhansen]

What do you do when all the reasoning in the world doesn’t make you want to attend mass, adoration, or pray.

When doing so anyways is nothing but an obligation and is spent wallowing in doubts.

When you haven’t sensed the presence of God in your remembered life and have no aesthetical reason to believe.

When knowing isn’t enough, faith doesn’t exist, and you’re not sure if you’ve ever wholly believed in anything.

And when you’ve spent from middle-school onward faking it, hoping someday to make it, but knowing that you’re nothing but an agnostic at best at heart.

I just don’t know how much longer I can carry on with this. It’s frustrating.

It’s important to be honest with yourself. It doesn’t do any good to fake faith; God knows where we’re at so we certainly can’t fool Him. Step back from it and give it a rest. Then you can find out how important it is to you. To draw closer to God we must really want it, and He’ll draw close to us but it sounds like you’re still operating under the faith you’ve given at this point, rather than the one you’ll need to cultivate yourself in order for it to be real to you. I’d take a breather and give yourself some time. God’s patient and kind and knows you better than you know yourself and He’s not going anywhere.

 

[Edward_H]

Not Religious

Love is a miracle. That millions and billions of people go out of their way to give to complete strangers… atheists give too…is a miracle.

CS Lewis used to be an atheist, but as smart as he was, and as well read as he was, something just didn’t add up for him, and it was Love. Love not as some smarmy ever changing feeling, but love as a deed, as gift, as self-donation. There was too much of it to be ignored or to be cheaply or superficially explained away.

It’s intellectually easier and lazier to be an atheist, and God gives us - out of Love - free will to love or not love Him or others.

But in my own mind the easy and the superficial things in life tend not to have the heft of truth behind them. They always turnout to be only cheaply and temporarily satisfying to them.

It’s your choice. And if you say you believe in real substantial love, but not God, you’re either stopping a lap short in your thinking or you’re fooling yourself. Don’t stop short, don’t take short cuts. Continue to think about love, look for it, think about it. Think about it and about free will. Look at the family model our world has grown up with. Sure there are grotesque examples we - out of free will - have made of them. But look at the model set up for is. The model of love and care and mutual support. Where did this model come from. And think of the most perfect family, the most mutually giving, harmonious, single purposed family, and you’ll see the outline of the Trinity in it.

Choose Love, a personal Love, a love that comes from a Father God. If you have nothing in your heart but doubt…say “God all I have to give you is my miserable doubt, but it’s yours to have. I give you my doubt, all of it, give me your infinite Love, and never leave me alone. Give me the deep and real joy that you promised. Then, when I am ready, give me a hard job to do for you and others.”

 

[NotReligous]

Not Religious

Love is a miracle. That millions and billions of people go out of their way to give to complete strangers… atheists give too…is a miracle.

    So you are saying that love proofs the existence of god? Ok..?

CS Lewis used to be an atheist, but as smart as he was, and as well read as he was, something just didn’t add up for him, and it was Love. Love not as some smarmy ever changing feeling, but love as a deed, as gift, as self-donation.

So he became religious because of love…this may sound like a weird questions, but why? What on earth does the fact that human beings love each other have to do with god?

There was too much of it to be ignored or to be cheaply or superficially explained away.

…Unfortunately it can be explained easily. Love is a chemical reaction in our brain…there is nothing mysterious about it. If you mean, how did the feeling get there, then I’d have to use evolution. If you wish, I can explain how love evolved.

It’s intellectually easier and lazier to be an atheist, and God gives us - out of Love - free will to love or not love Him or others.

What makes you think so? I think it is far, far more intellectually easier to just say; ‘god did it’ rather than actually looking for reasons about something.

But in my own mind the easy and the superficial things in life tend not to have the heft of truth behind them. They always turnout to be only cheaply and temporarily satisfying to them.

Well, the catholic faith was for me at the most only ‘cheaply and temporarily satisfying’.

It’s your choice. And if you say you believe in real substantial love, but not God, you’re either stopping a lap short in your thinking or you’re fooling yourself. Don’t stop short, don’t take short cuts. Continue to think about love, look for it, think about it.

Chemical reactions…what is there to look at?

Think about it and about free will.

Free will…every living thing has it…(in a way) I don’t what I am supposed to get with that…

Note; The more conscious a being is, the more “free will” it has.

Look at the family model our world has grown up with. Sure there are grotesque examples we - out of free will - have made of them. But look at the model set up for is. The model of love and care and mutual support. Where did this model come from. And think of the most perfect family, the most mutually giving, harmonious, single purposed family, and you’ll see the outline of the Trinity in it.

…The world is a sick, chaotic place. I don’t see the model of a very amazing creator.

Note; Sick means, that we humans are pretty sick.
Chaotic means, that the universe is not ordered, but very chaotic, almost 100% uninhabitable for life.

…Care to be more precise?

If you have nothing in your heart but doubt…say “God all I have to give you is my miserable doubt, but it’s yours to have. I give you my doubt, all of it, give me your infinite Love, and never leave me alone. Give me the deep and real joy that you promised. Then, when I am ready, give me a hard job to do for you and others.”

…Ok…I did that…well, it didn’t get me anywhere.

 

[Edward_H]

So you are saying that love proofs the existence of god? Ok…?

So he became religious because of love…this may sound like a weird questions, but why? What on earth does the fact that human beings love each other have to do with god?

…Unfortunately it can be explained easily. Love is a chemical reaction in our brain…there is nothing mysterious about it. If you mean, how did the feeling get there, then I’d have to use evolution. If you wish, I can explain how love evolved.

What makes you think so? I think it is far, far more intellectually easier to just say; ‘god did it’ rather than actually looking for reasons about something.

Well, the catholic faith was for me at the most only ‘cheaply and temporarily satisfying’.

Chemical reactions…what is there to look at?

Free will…every living thing has it…(in a way) I don’t what I am supposed to get with that…

Note; The more conscious a being is, the more “free will” it has.

…The world is a sick, chaotic place. I don’t see the model of a very amazing creator.

Note; Sick means, that we humans are pretty sick.
Chaotic means, that the universe is not ordered, but very chaotic, almost 100% uninhabitable for life.

…Care to be more precise?

…Ok…I did that…well, it didn’t get me anywhere.

If you said that prayer with more sincerity than your cock-sure words indicate, you’ll never be the same. It may take years to work on your heart. Read deeply about St Augustine. I am quite sure you haven’t.

If you think the Catholic life (a life long pursuit of holiness) is easy and that love is a feeling, you’re more poorly read than I thought.

You make a half a lap around the track and you huff and puff and grope for reasons for not running a real pursuit.

You asked for recommendations…go spend 9 Saturdays in a row packing meals for the homeless, or cleaning up some shut-in’s filthy home, and say that prayer I gave you at the beginning and everyday day of service. Don’t make any more postings on this topic until you’ve done the work of love. Make the effort to find Christ passing by you daily instead of wailing in these forums.

Peace be with you.

 

[NotReligous]

If you said that prayer with more sincerity than your cock-sure words indicate, you’ll never be the same. It may take years to work on your heart. Read deeply about St Augustine. I am quite sure you haven’t.

First of all, I have read St. Augustine. And, I can’t pray sincerely, if I don’t believe in god…

If you think the Catholic life (a life long pursuit of holiness) is easy and that love is a feeling, you’re more poorly read than I thought.

If you had read my post, maybe you would have noticed, that I simply replied to your claim, that atheism is less intellectual than religion. Seeing that you did not actually reply to my point, I am sticking with that argument. I quote;

“What makes you think so? I think it is far, far more intellectually easier to just say; ‘god did it’ rather than actually looking for reasons about something.”

What does this have to do with Catholic living?

You make a half a lap around the track and you huff and puff and grope for reasons for not running a real pursuit.

…What are you referring to?

You asked for recommendations…go spend 9 Saturdays in a row packing meals for the homeless, or cleaning up some shut-in’s filthy home, and say that prayer I gave you at the beginning and everyday day of service.

There are pretty much no homeless people in my country, and I don’t think there is any way I would even get packing the meat for them. (we have loads of people doing that) Don’t know any filthy homes to clean either. And also, what does this have to do with anything? I could send the prayer to Allah or Krishna if I wanted to. How does this make your god any more real?

Don’t make any more postings on this topic until you’ve done the work of love. Make the effort to find Christ passing by you daily instead of wailing in these forums.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but who are you to demand these things…? I could ask you to read Richard Dawkins 'God Delusion*, and every day at work read an atheist argument, and try to debunk it. You are free to present me your arguments(etc.), and not free to demand me something outside of relative ease, that you have not given me good reasons to do. For example, you can’t say; Go to church every day, because god wants you to.

You can guide me to these things, but you must also respect if I reply and tell you, ‘no I wont.’ For example to church I would say; I am an atheist, church serves no purpose for me.

Peace be with you.

And also with you.

 

[TheQuestioner]

It’s important to be honest with yourself. It doesn’t do any good to fake faith; God knows where we’re at so we certainly can’t fool Him. Step back from it and give it a rest. Then you can find out how important it is to you. To draw closer to God we must really want it, and He’ll draw close to us but it sounds like you’re still operating under the faith you’ve given at this point, rather than the one you’ll need to cultivate yourself in order for it to be real to you. I’d take a breather and give yourself some time. God’s patient and kind and knows you better than you know yourself and He’s not going anywhere.

I know you meant well but this is bad advice. She (or he) should go to Mass anyway and keep on going with their faith. As little as it may be God will fill in the rest. Her (or his) good will is all God needs to work with.

At Mass a person receives countless graces, so it is better to bask in them, even if only one or two hit.

 

[Edward_H]

In a nutshell, I see the problem.

You say “church serves no purpose for me”

It’s all about you, I guess. And in your country there’s no one…no one…to help. You’ve actively looked daily and can’t find anyone. Cool. So there…you don’t need love in yuor country…love of the sweaty, tiring, self-donating kind.

But, “Church” [your word…I’d use God or Love (uppercased deliberately] is about getting out of our selves. It’s about adoring something other than ourselves, it’s about asking for help to help others, it’s about asking for forgiveness for our weaknesses. It’s about Thankfulness for not being shot at every day or having our women raped in front of us.

So in your case, in your country, at least as far as your scope of concern extends…there’s nothing larger for you to adore, there are no people in need of love, there are no weaknesses requiring forgiveness, there are no shortages to ask for relief from.

But still something seems missing in your missives. A joy, a familial spirit, an heroic “givingness”. You’ve got me. You have one upped me. I give up on what that could be.

I gave it my best shot.

Peace again.

 

[jmcrae]

…Ok…I did that…well, it didn’t get me anywhere.

What do you think you were supposed to be “getting”? Loving God isn’t about “getting” something. It’s about giving. When you’re giving and giving without receiving any consolations or any gifts in return, guess what - you’re doing it right.

As Edward pointed out above on the previous page, love isn’t a smarmy feeling, or a rush of hormones, or a sense of consolation - it’s the work of doing what is right for the other person, even when they have nothing to give you in return.

 

[puzzleannie]

What do you do when all the reasoning in the world doesn’t make you want to attend mass, adoration, or pray.

When doing so anyways is nothing but an obligation and is spent wallowing in doubts.

.

well what I would do and have done is give up on the reasoning and tryin to induce a feeling, emotion or sentiment of “wanting to pray and go to Mass” but simply do it out of love. Jesus asked me to do this, the last thing he asked for before dying for my sake, so I do it out of love. Just as I changed diapers, cooked, cleaned and so forth for my children without always (or ever) feeling a desire to do so, but simply did it for love.

 

[DexUK]

Raindr0ps, here is a little prayer that you can try saying:

Lord, help me in my unbelief.

Talk to your priest about how you feel. If your priest isn’t that sympathetic (he is human after all, and it is possible to find that your parish priest isn’t especially approachable or you have a personality clash)… find another priest. Keep going until you find a good priest who can act as a form of spiritual director to help you meditate better on God, to understand Him a little better and to put into a better context the place of the Church, the Mass, etc. Because it sounds to me like you’ve not really been introduced to God properly. It’s very difficult to feel close to someone you don’t know very well after all…

 

[NotReligous]

What do you think you were supposed to be “getting”? Loving God isn’t about “getting” something. It’s about giving. When you’re giving and giving without receiving any consolations or any gifts in return, guess what - you’re doing it right.

Yeah, but I didn’t literally mean “getting something”, I meant, that something at all would change. And once again, how could I love someone I don’t believe in?

As Edward pointed out above on the previous page, love isn’t a smarmy feeling, or a rush of hormones, or a sense of consolation - it’s the work of doing what is right for the other person, even when they have nothing to give you in return.

Ok…so how does this love in any way proof gods existence? And if this was never intended to be proof for god, then…what does this information have to do with anything?