What do YOU find confusing about Catholicism?

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Hi, It’s ME the “OP” again:smile:

May I respectfully suggest you invest a few minutes and read the first 3 chapters of the book of Genesis. Here is a site you can use to do that easily http://drbo.org/

What becomes very clear is that God planned Earth to be a place of a literal PERFECT existence. Where every need & every REAL want was taken care of; no death & no suffering. But because God created humanity so that HE could, would and SHOULD be Glorified; He made man in “His own Image” Gen 1:26-27; which makes humanity the only RATIONAL living thing in the Universe.

Man, similar to GOD, has a mind, intellect and FREEWILL attached to our humans Souls at the instant of our conception, so that we CAN freely choose to Love God or HATE God [no middle ground]. It is because Adam and Even freely choose to HATE God despite all that He had given them, as Satan convinced THEM that they too could “be gods”.

What you rightly detest are the consequences of that first Original Sin, and our now natural propensity to sin, which is the ROOT of all that you don’t like about planet earth.

So please do not blame GOD for what We, humanity brought upon ourselves. So now we can be part of the solution or an ongoing part of the problem.

Pray very much my friend
Patrick [PJM]
 
PJM said:
REPLY

Certainly “faith” has an important role in the right practice of Catholicism; but not an exclusive one.

We can for example know OF GOD though nature, the Natural and Moral Laws and the Universe. We can know that Jesus is God through secular history and the now 2,000 year old Catholic Bible. We can know that Jesus desired and founded just One True Church and Faith [set of religious beliefs.]

So my friend, as the “OP” of this STRING, if you’d care to be more specific than I too can at least attempt to address your concerns.

I’m looking forward to hearing back from you,

God Bless,

Patrick [PJM]
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What is the point of faith except that it puts you in state of doubt if you are a skeptical person?
 
My dear friend in Christ [I’m the “OP” of this STRING]

I AM a very conservative-Catholic who would never claim, even when “pushed” that “nearly all are damned.” THAT is way to vague; yet we can know, from the Narrow Gate teaching that far more will choose FOR THEMSELVES, eternal hell, than those who are willing to pay the asking price for admission to Heaven.

we HAVE the 10 Commandments, which by the way are categories of possible sins; not “thee 10 possible sins”

We have the Bible

& we HAVE Christ One True Faith and Church to make it more concrete, IF we’re inclined to avail ourselves of all of the above. In the entire UNIVERSE with its BILLIONS of created things, GOD choose to gift only one; ONLY HUMANITY with a mind, intellect and FREEWIll, making us similar to GOd and the Angels; RATIONAL “creatures”, so that we can, with effort KNOW Good from evil.

"Before man is life and death, good and evil, that which he shall choose shall be given him:"[Ecclesiasticus 15:18]

Your negativity is ungrounded; the many Saints and saints prove your wrong. we CAN know; or God is NOT GOOD. That is the implication of your position. Is THAT what you actually mean to imply?

And do you suppose that If it were all in Black & While; more souls would choose salvation and be willing to subject themselves to God’s commands and teachings?

PRAY very much, make frequent and GOOD use of the sacraments that Jesus OFFERS US, so that we need NOT be “afraid”; but hold our Good, fair and Just God in AWE.

we are to FIRST save our OWN souls and then share the “Good News” of salvation with others. Amen

God Bless you,
Patrick [PJM]
 
Lara said:
I don’t quite get why Christ had to die for our sins, or be the sacrificial lamb. Why did he need to atone for our sins when we keep sinning anyhow
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WOW! Great Question, let’s see if i can cram in a reply in the space allotted?

Original sin came through Adam & Even; In Divine Justice [God’s thoughts are not limited like ours Isa 55: 8-9] he ONLY sufficient repayment , was for GOD to become a mortal man [& still remain GOD as well], and make atonement for humanity.

1 Cor 15:21-23 “For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ
Christ becoming man has other fruits besides sin atonement; one consequence to Original sin was a LOCKOUT of heaven Gen 3:23-24, and Christ as redeemer of ALL humanity reopened heaven’s gate.
Another KEY reason Jesus became man, was so that we COULD actually get to KNOW God on a personal level. A third reason was to Establish His One TRUE Faith & Church [today’s RCC], and through Her, GIFT us with the Seven Sacraments; including the Eucharist: Jesus Himself, and Sacramental Confession for sin-forgiveness GOD”S WAY. 1 Jn 1:8-9, 1 Jn 5:16-17, Jn 20:19-23
Christ atonement does not, nor was it intended to be the “end-all” needs for one’s salvation. That theology is a recent post reformation, 16th century invention.
A highly signifient reason Jesus became man was to introduce GRACE, some of it Sacramental /Actual grace; but other types as well, as a medicine for man’s propensity to sin.
Because in all of the Universe only humanity is Created in GOD’S Image Gen 1:26-27. This is accomplished by God Gifting each human soul with a mind, intellect and FREEWILL, similar to God & the Angels, so that we could & SHOULD choose to Love God or to Hate Him. Isaiah 43: 7& 21, it’s OUR choice. God affirms what we choose.

God Bless you
Patrick [PJM]
 
I SUSPECT it is all of these

1.Because similar to GOD and the Angels in the ENTIRE UNiverse, humanity alone is Created in the very “Image of our God” as RATIONAL beings
  1. This THEN makes humanity accountable for our life’s choices Isa 43: 7 & 21, Duet 30:19, Ecc 15:18
  2. This for some uninformed, seems to maker God out to be a villain, rather than the Loving Merciful God that He actually is
  3. the FACT that Freewill feeds our propensity to sin, with actions having just consequences
  4. But this belies the fact, that it is being Rational [having a mind, intellect & freewill that enable us to freely Love God rather than HATE him; and to choose heaven over hell.
God Bless,
PJM
 
Because contraception feeds Pride and MEISM

ONAN
Gen.38: 6-10 And Judah took a wife for Er his first-born, and her name was Tamar. But Er, Judah’s first-born, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. Then Judah [the Father of both sons] said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.” But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife he spilled the semen on the ground, lest he should give offspring to his brother.[And what he did was displeasing in the sight of the LORD, and he slew him also” MEANING GOD KILLED HIM BOTH PHYSICALLY AND SPIRITUALLY [condemned to ETERNAL Hell!]

And because NFP is GOD’S Natural way

It all boils down to: WHO IS ACTUALLY IN CHARGE OF OUR LIVES?

God Bless and guide you

PJM
 
There’s a huge difference between something that’s confusing and something that mysterious. I don’t find anything confusing about Catholicism. On the contrary, the Catholic Faith is clear and beautiful and true. The Mysteries of the Catholic Faith, however, are very mysterious, especially the Mystery of the Most holy and undivided Trinity.
 
At some point, I think even NFP can become a way of closing a couple from accepting children. Say a couple got married, had no health reasons or financial reasons which would indicate that spacing children would be necessary. And for all their fertile years, they practiced NFP and managed to avoid having children. This, in a sense, would go against being open to life.

But even then, it would still be healthier for a woman. Birth control does lead to blood clots- which anyone will tell you is scary- depression, weight gain and other consequences. Watch some youtubers explain what happened to them after taking it. The IUD is scary due to risk of infection etc… And NFP always comes out ahead when it comes to enhancing communication in a couple and improving respect for each other’s gift of fertility.

NFP is in one way only worse for a woman and that is that she will rarely be able to have relations when she’s primed to want to by her biology. But there are other days besides the fertile days.
 
PJM, Thank you for your well thought out, articulate and kind response. I will certainly take your advice here.

God Bless
 
Thank you for the reply. I’ll need to read it many times though to understand it.
 
PJM said:
What becomes very clear is that God planned Earth to be a place of a literal PERFECT existence. Where every need & every REAL want was taken care of; no death & no suffering. But because God created humanity so that HE could, would and SHOULD be Glorified; He made man in “His own Image” Gen 1:26-27; which makes humanity the only RATIONAL living thing in the Universe.

Man, similar to GOD, has a mind, intellect and FREEWILL attached to our humans Souls at the instant of our conception, so that we CAN freely choose to Love God or HATE God [no middle ground].
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PJM,
For reasons that are likely obvious to you, I would like to draw attention to your position that sinful and fallible men can radically impact what God planned.

Here you claim God, “planned Earth to be a place of a literal PERFECT existence. Where every need & every REAL want was taken care of; no death & no suffering.” In response to the “problem of evil” you explain that men have free will and this has resulted in Earth that is not “a literal PERFECT existence” and where “every need & every REAL want was taken care of, no death & no suffering.”

I personally might alter some aspects of what you highlight here, but I applaud your recognition that what scripture clearly teaches you is God’s plan clearly did not happen because men have agency and rebel.

Your appeal to human agency and how it impacts God’s intentions that are “very clear” when you read the Bible IMO does not create an adequate theodicy, but it absolutely applies well to other things you claim “make no sense” from what you claim is “very clear” in the Bible.
Charity, TOm
 
PJM said:
What becomes very clear is that God planned Earth to be a place of a literal PERFECT existence.
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Did He succeed in His plan? If He is omnipotent should His plans be successful ?
 
AINg – Unlike the plans of someone who keeps his projects to himself, or those of a Bridezilla or control freak (and we all know someone like that!) – God’s plans have always been plans allowing for the participation of other beings.

In other words, He set the stage, and He plays an active role in the play. But everybody else - the angels, the demons, us humans - are allowed to come up with their own speeches and actions, and to interact with each other in pursuit of their own goals.

For justice’ sake, He set the stage to be a perfect world. But by allowing participation, He purposefully allowed us to cause damage to the stage, to rip up the curtains, and to wreak havoc. If that’s what we want to do… fine.

However, God doesn’t exist only in the world. He exists in eternity. He is in every point of space and time, and He is beyond it. So He knows and knew everything that people would freely choose to do. His part is tailored to that, and so is the happy ending. (Which from His point of view is always happening now.)

So yes, of course His almighty plan is already successful. Wait and see, when we catch up to that part of the play.
 
YES God did succeed [after all He’s GOD!🤔

So much so that GOD posted a GUARD to prevent re-entry unmerited and unapproved by GOD.

Genesis 3: 21-24
[21] And the Lord God made for Adam and his wife, garments of skins, and clothed them. [22] And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us, knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever. [23] And the Lord God sent him out of the paradise of pleasure, to till the earth from which he was taken**. [24] And he cast out Adam; and placed before the paradise of pleasure Cherubims, and a flaming sword, turning every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.**

God Bless you,

Patrick
 
FYI,

Hi Tom, its been a while:smile:

Man can change what GOD had planned BUT NOT what God Knew would happen

OMNISCIENCE. God’s knowledge of all things. Revelation discloses that the wisdom of God is without measure (Psalm 146:5). And the Church teaches that his knowledge is infinite.

The primary object of divine cognition is God himself, whom he knows immediately, that is, without any medium by which he apprehends his nature. He knows himself through himself.

The secondary objects of divine knowledge are everything else, namely the purely possible, the real, and the conditionally future. He knows all that is merely possible by what is called the knowledge of simple intelligence. This means that, in comprehending his infinite imitability and his omnipotence, God knows therein the whole sphere of the possible.

He knows all real things in the past, present, and the future by his knowledge of vision. When God, in his self-consciousness, beholds his infinite operative power, he knows therein all that he, as the main effective cause, actually comprehends, i.e., all reality. The difference between past, present, and future does not exist for the divine knowledge, since for God all is simultaneously present.

By the same knowledge of vision, God also foresees the future free acts of the rational creatures with infallible certainty. As taught by the Church, “All things are naked and open to His eyes, even those things that will happen through the free actions of creatures” (Denzinger 3003). The future free actions foreseen by God follow infallibly not because God substitutes his will for the free wills of his creatures but because he does not interfere with the freedom that he foresees creatures will exercise. (Etym. Latin omnis, all + scire, to know.) END QUOTES Fatter Hardon’s Catholic Dictionary

Blessings,

Pat
 
PJM said:
The future free actions foreseen by God follow infallibly not because God substitutes his will for the free wills of his creatures but because he does not interfere with the freedom that he foresees creatures will exercise.
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How can you have freedom if even before you were born, God knew (so it was written down in the mind of God) what you would do in that situation. When you get to that situation in question, you have no alternative except to do what - thousands of years ago - God knew you would do. Can you do something different, do you have any alternative, or are you now locked in to perform what was written down in the mind of God long ago?
 
PJM said:
Man can change what GOD had planned BUT NOT what God Knew would happen
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I think this was a good response to the context and the sub-context of my comment. Darn you!

I suppose your message is that God made a plan for a perfect wonderful world, inserted free humans into the plan and we got the world as it is. God’s plan was really to create a plan so that after we messed it up (which He knew infallibly we would) the remnants of the plan would be defined and or detectable so that God could explain and/or we could see that the plan was for a perfect and wonderful world.

AINg is pushing on something that I think is important, but I am quite convinced it was less important to Aquinas and even less important to Augustine. I will let that AINg continue pushing.
Charity, TOm
 
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