What do YOU find confusing about Catholicism?

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you must be in my parish…we use the “catholic school” classrooms (which were built with parish funds) and we cannot even WRITE on the white boards…Makes me crazy.
 
AlNg said:
How can you have freedom if even before you were born, God knew (so it was written down in the mind of God) what you would do in that situation. When you get to that situation in question, you have no alternative except to do what - thousands of years ago - God knew you would do. Can you do something different, do you have any alternative, or are you now locked in to perform what was written down in the mind of God long ago?
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BECAUSE foreknowledge in NO WAY affects the outcome, and hence does not override one’s freewill.

God Bless you

Patrick
 
PJM said:
BECAUSE foreknowledge in NO WAY affects the outcome, and hence does not override one’s freewill.
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Do you have any alternative choice except to do what was written down in the mind of God before you were born?
 
HELP ME out here🤔

How can have freedom before we are born?

God in order to BE GOD knows of every contingency and that is just part of Hs Foreknowledge

Consider this you’re rooftop of a ten story building that is located at 5th and Vine, both of which are one way streets.

You peek over the edge and see a car coming too fast on Vine and about to turn the WRONG way onto 5th… where another vehicle is motoring. THERE is a huge crash and one person dies,

DID YOU commit murder? You knew it was going to happen before hand?

OF COURSE NOT! And it is the same way with God’'s foreknowledge, And NO! God COULD NOT have done something about it and STILL be GOD.

God in order to BE GOD cannot give humanity all that is needed to be the ONLY Rational creatures [ MIND, INTELLECT & FREEWILL] in the entire Universe; and then deny him the use of those attributes. God CAN and does OFFER grace; but grace is an OFFER, not a command.

Does that clarify it for you?

Pray much

Partick
 
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If at the moment of action an agent cannot do A or Not A because God’s eternal knowledge is that they did A, then they lack Libertarian Free Will. This is simply true. The argument is not that God forced A, merely that the agent couldn’t act in a wau that makes God’s eternal knowledge wrong.
Charity, TOm
 
There are a number of things I don’t understand. The Eucharist is one of them. I don’t get how a wafer can become the flesh of Christ.
 
What???
If at moment t-time God eternal knew that agent TOm would scream and not jump off the roof. Agent TOm could not jump of the roof and not scream. If agent TOm had the power to do other than what God eternally knew agent TOm would do, then agent TOm would have the power to make God’s eternal knowledge wrong.
This seems quite clear.
Charity, TOm
 
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I imagine it’s sorta like us knowing when America would be founded because it’s already happened.
To TOm, he makes a choice or has yet to make the choice.

But to God, it has already happened, and TOm has already made his choice.
 
Kei said:
I imagine it’s sorta like us knowing when America would be founded because it’s already happened.
To TOm, he makes a choice or has yet to make the choice.

But to God, it has already happened, and TOm has already made his choice.
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According to Aquinas God cannot act in time today and make it such that America was not founded. Just like He cannot respond to my prayer and not merely forgive me, but make me eternally sinless.
That being said, the fact that “America was founded” is not as essential to God’s character as the fact that His knowledge is true. Thus, if you demand that God’s knowledge contains all future acts, then those future acts can only occur in alignment with how God knows they will. Aquinas confuses me a little with his take, but I do not believe he explains away anything I have said. Luis de Molina is quite clear that the “middle knowledge” that God possesses enables His infallible foreknowledge. God’s middle knowledge means that He knows what agent TOm will do in every situation those when agent TOm chooses to do A in situation S, God knew that would happen because He perfectly knew TOm. This absolutely means that agent TOm could not do other than what agent TOm would/will/did do. There is no freedom to do other than what agent TOm will do in any given situation. No ability to do other than what God knew agent TOm would do. This means there is no Libertarian Free Will.
You are welcome to not like it, but I do not see how you can argue that God has infallible foreknowledge of all events and agents can do other than God has eternally known they would in fact do. The rational connections are simple and clear.

Charity, TOm
 
Kei said:
Isn’t the Almighty power of God amazing?!
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I do not deny God is amazing. I believe God can be amazing without infallible foreknowledge of EVERY choice made by free human agents. God must know sufficient to guarantee His plans are realized, but this does not require IMO infallible foreknowledge of EVERY act. In many ways God is more amazing because His plans account for not only what every agent does, but what every agent might have done also.
I in alignment with most Catholic philosophers, believe that God created man with the ability to reason and that it is inappropriate to assert irrational/unreasonable things about God. God cannot make a square circle or a married bachelor. God cannot simultaneously make it so A and not A occur. Some philosophers believe if God is the subject of a proposition the predicate can be anything rational or irrational. I reject this. The law of non-contradiction is one of the most basic laws of logic and IMO God gave that to us so that we can use our reasoning ability.
So, it is my position that you can abandon the law of non-contradiction if you like. Or you can assert that God infallibly knows all future actions of all agents and those agents lack the ability to do other than what God knows they will do. Or you can assert that God does not know infallibility ALL future actions because agents have the ability to do other than they do. But you must choose one of the three. Molina is clear in his choice of God’s knowledge and rationality. As I understand Aquinas he is really in the same camp, but I would need to revisit a lot of his words to be more sure. Descartes, who was Catholic, is in the camp that God can violate the law of non-contradiction. His books were banned by the Catholic Church, but I am not sure what precisely was problematic. I lean towards the third view, that the ability to do other than what we do must be present for men to have freedom to accept or reject God’s love.
Charity, TOm
 
That it appears easier for non-Catholics to get to Heaven than Catholics especially Protestants and Muslims.

Shouldn’t it be easier for Catholics?
 
No, I contend you do not need to choose one of the three.

Imagine that we have free will. Just imagine it.
Now, imagine that George decides to build a house.

Say it has been 5 years since George built this house. You now know that George built this house.

So, I believe it should be easy to believe that free will does not forbid your actions from being known in the future.

Now, to a being who is timeless, we have already made all our choices. I do not see how this is at all contrary to free will.

Making us eternally sinless would be to change who we are and ignore our free will.
 
Yes you are right. It would seem it would be easer for Catholics to get to heaven.

Because they say they have the fullness of the doctrines. And the belief system.

And everyone else does not!

And outside of this system is “uncertainty”
 
Oh trust me it is that the Church is the road to Heaven!
But, do not forget that to those given much much will be expected!
 
An example would be me being told that when protestants divorce and remarry it is not adultery because they don’t follow the Catholic teaching even though Jesus himself said it was adultery but a Catholic cannot divorce and remarry or they would go to Hell.
 
I don’t know about that.

But protestant marriage isn’t sacramental, and in that sense, it is not profaning a sacrament when they do such.

Edit: this post is incorrect.
 
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I thought two protestants getting married in a protestant church was?

So why do protestants get to do as they please in that sense and Catholics have to follow a strict rule?
 
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