What do you know about sex offenses?

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I’m interested in knowing what people believe to be the causes of sex offenses. My interest stems in the fact that we have increasingly harsher laws for sex offenders, and I feel that, while we do need stiff laws for sex crimes, the laws made miss the point.

For example, consider the laws restricting a sex offender from living within 1000 feet of a school, park, or any place where children congregate. To me, this regulation does not make sense because a) a predatory sex offender could easily travel more than 1000 feet to find victims and b) most offenses are against family members, and the restriction really does nothing to address that.

Too many laws, I feel, gloss over the real problems, and as long as that continues, we’ll never fix the problem. So, I’ll state what I feel the important factors are, and then ask anyone who wishes to contribute to add their views on why sex crimes occur.

My particular view works with the following premises:
  1. You cannot harm someone if you are mindful of them as thinking, feeling human beings.
  2. Lustful thinking reduces a human to an object (thus violating the mindfulness in 1)
  3. Our society promotes free sex as good
  4. When people are uncomfortable, they seek ways to become comfortable again
  5. The spread of loose sexual morals has led people to consistently use sexual pleasure as a means of relieving tension, stress, etc.
  6. Using sexual pleasure to find comfort is addictive
  7. Sex crimes occur when a person has become used to using sexual pleasure as a means of seeking release from discomfort, has gained a sexual addiction, and has found the need for an increased variety of sexual activity to reach that sexual pleasure that he craves.
In other words, I feel that a person ultimately leads himself into a sex crime by starting with the premise that he needs sex. This comes from an addiction that forms through means that society is trying to claim are not wrong–pornography, masturbation, and lots of sex. Coupled with a persistent stress factor–things such as depression, low self-esteem, anger, etc–this sets a person up to seek gratification in more and more places. Eventually another human being becomes nothing more than a means to sexual release–though the mind, never really wanting to hurt another person, will come up with all manner of justifications as to how the sexual contact won’t hurt the other person–and then rape or molestation occurs.

In other words, with our increasingly promiscuous society, we are, in essence, setting ourselves up to be a nation of sex offenders.
 


Too many laws, I feel, gloss over the real problems, and as long as that continues, we’ll never fix the problem. …
We cannot fix the problem. Our mental state manifests in many ways to include these sex actions. Freud’s works are direct to this issue. Freud started with the premise sex changes mentality however it was proven wrong - mentality is displayed in sex actions.
 
We cannot fix the problem. Our mental state manifests in many ways to include these sex actions. Freud’s works are direct to this issue. Freud started with the premise sex changes mentality however it was proven wrong - mentality is displayed in sex actions.
See, I think we can fix the problem, and I really think the problem boils down to the usage of sex as another form of entertainment.

I don’t think most cases of child molestation are due to mental instabilities. The statistics, if anything, bear witness to that. Even only looking at child molesters, recidivism rates are well below that for almost any other crime. That means something can be tweaked in the offenders’ minds.

I really think most child molestation occurs for the same reason date rape drugs are used: ease of getting sex. A child typically isn’t well enough aware of what’s going on to fend off the offender.

Given that we have so many sex offenses occurring, and given that so few sex offenders commit another offense (maybe 1 in 3, probably only 1 in 4), that can only mean that the majority of offenses are committed by people previously without any convictions.

It seems to me, and I could be wrong, but that way to protect society from sex offenders is working to prevent them in the first place.
 
You cannot fix these particular kinds of mental illnesses, so the only thing that should be done is to lock them away forever to keep society safe.

That way there’d be no such thing as sex offender lists and the like.
 
I think sex abuse is a result of the offenders’ decision to place their lust, greed, selfishness and sadism ahead of all moral considerations. It’s a choice, but someone who makes such a choice often is selfish to the end and won’t respond to any treatment. The motivation is utterly evil; the methods they use prove it’s extremely premeditated; and they show no real remorse but rather make excuses and keep mementos to amuse themselves with later in many cases, even selling such on the black market. Talking about treatment plays into their hands.
 
So the general consensus is that sex offenders are untreatable, without remorse and nothing but a threat that should be locked away?

That certainly tells me that real information about sex offenders in general isn’t reaching most people.
I think sex abuse is a result of the offenders’ decision to place their lust, greed, selfishness and sadism ahead of all moral considerations.
This is true for the vast majority of sex crimes. A very small percentage are committed by people incapable of making a moral decision, and a small percentage are committed by people who cannot see other people as people (i.e. psychopaths). The rest are committed by people who, for a variety of reasons, chose to seek their own pleasure at the expense of others.
It’s a choice, but someone who makes such a choice often is selfish to the end and won’t respond to any treatment.
Studies fail to corroborate this. Even the studies that put recidivism rates as high as 50% agree that at least half of all sex offenders never commit another offense. Most therapists who work with (non-psychopathic) sex offenders will attest that a large percentage of those in treatment make an honest effort to turn their lives around. Those offenders are horrified by their actions and want nothing like it to ever happen again.

Consider also that most studies put recidivism rates around 25-30%, but that number drops significantly if you only look at reoffense rates (and yes, that takes into consideration arrests for reoffense that get plead down to something less). Consider that studies show a marked correlation between reduction of recidivism rates and therapy. (Some studies say a drop from 22% to 15%, others from 14% to 7%, and some even from 11% to 4%.)
The motivation is utterly evil; the methods they use prove it’s extremely premeditated;
A large number of cases that reach the public eye certainly would attest to this, but in actuality this isn’t the case. Now, I’m not claiming sex offenders accidentally fall into their sex crimes. Not in the slightest. But the vast majority of sex offenders take an opportunity that’s presented. There’s a long psychological description for what goes on in an offender’s mind, but here’s the short version:

A person is feeling stress of some sort. He thinks about how he wants to relieve that stress. Then he goes does what he was thinking about. That’s typical of anyone. But here’s where it gets tricky. When someone goes into deviant behavior, the thinking really starts churning. There’s a long dialogue between the emotions (the stress, the desire to relieve the stress) and the mind, the former asking for something, anything, to be done, the latter trying interject reason, especially if the action under consideration is immoral or indecent in some way. Eventually, for the sex crime to occur, the mind has to be talked into believing that a) he’s not doing anything wrong and b) that he’s not actually hurting the person involved.

So yes, you can say there’s premeditation involved, but this isn’t cold, calculated meditation; it’s usually an intense internal debate that ends with the wrong conclusion. Here’s the thing: quite often the crime has to occur rather quickly after the decision to commit the crime has been reached. Why? Because if enough time passes, that whole cognitive-emotive cycle will start up again and the offender could quite easily change his mind.

I won’t disagree that sex crimes are vile and terrible acts, but very people commit such crimes with evil intentions. They don’t want the other person hurt; they just want the stress they are feeling to go away. Now, granted, there are plenty of cases out there where people will deliberately hurt someone else to relieve their own pain, but that’s hardly limited to sex offenders.

On that note, you’ll find overlap all over the place: sex offenses committed because of anger, sex offenses committed because drugs lowered inhibitions, etc. But the vast majority of sex offenses are committed by people who don’t want to hurt someone else. They’re just very convincing in talking themselves into believing they’re not hurting someone else by using them as a sexual object. And there’s the main reason why sex offenders, by and large, can be (and often are) rehabilitated. They do feel remorse, often steaming heaps of remorse. But that guilt can manifest in two ways: it can either become a stressor that leads someone to commit another offense, or it can become motivation to stop. Usually, until an offender is caught, convicted, and sentenced, it ends up being the former. After they’re caught, and they have some stiff consequences staring them in the face the rest of their lives, then, with some help, they’ll make the painful journey towards a healthy life.

See, the thing that worries me is the general attitude that only a vile, depraved, and utterly evil person commits sex crimes. This is a problematic viewpoint, because it does play into the mental game that goes through some sex offenders’ heads. Here’s the mental thinking that I’m talking about:

A) I would like have sex with this 13-year-old

C) Isn’t that a sex crime?

A) But only completely evil psychopaths commit sex crimes.

C) Really? But you’re not an evil person.

A) Exactly. Thus it wouldn’t be a sex crime it would be (love, giving, some great romantic notion that makes it seem like it is something other than the use of a child for sexual gratification).

C) Ah. I guess it’s all right then.

Now, I know you’ll want to object and say, “Just because he thinks he’s not an evil person doesn’t make it so.” But here’s the thing. No one person is define solely through a narrow set of actions. The sex crime is not the whole of the sex offender. It was a choice, not a whole lifestyle (though I’ll agree there are some depraved sick-o’s out there that do make it a lifestyle), and when it is not a whole lifestyle, there is the potential for rehabilitation.

But that’s besides the point. The main point is this. Most sex offenders never actually thought to themselves, “Let’s go out a commit a sex crime!” To a large extent, they do feel that they just fell into the crime. The truth is that there are all kinds of warning signs along the way that were ignored. And it is those warning signs in particular that I wanted to people to think about (brainstorm even) in this thread.

The truth is that most sex offenders are repentant and want to lead a normal, healthy life. And that tells me that we can work to prevent sex crimes from ever occurring by spreading information on what does contribute to sex crimes. Saying that sex crimes are committed only by cold-hearted, calculating, unrepentant psychopaths is both false and damaging. It masks the true underlying causes.
 
See, I think we can fix the problem, and I really think the problem boils down to the usage of sex as another form of entertainment.

I don’t think most cases of child molestation are due to mental instabilities. The statistics, if anything, bear witness to that. [SIGN]Even only looking at child molesters, recidivism rates are well below that for almost any other crime. That means something can be tweaked in the offenders’ minds.[/SIGN]
I really think most child molestation occurs for the same reason date rape drugs are used: ease of getting sex. A child typically isn’t well enough aware of what’s going on to fend off the offender.

Given that we have so many sex offenses occurring, and given that so few sex offenders commit another offense (maybe 1 in 3, probably only 1 in 4), that can only mean that the majority of offenses are committed by people previously without any convictions.

It seems to me, and I could be wrong, but that way to protect society from sex offenders is working to prevent them in the first place.
I may be misunderstanding you but this is not true. Recidivism amoung sex offenders is extremely high. Though if you catch someone at a young age your chances of effective treatment go up quite a bit.
 
I’m not an expert, but I do have some professional experience with this.

I’m not sure how much I believe in the recidivism statistics. I have seen a lot of “first time” sex offenders who, if you dig far enough and diligently enough, have actually been engaging in it a long time but have simply not been caught. Generally speaking, sexual predators are very good at avoidance of getting caught.

When one says “sex offender”, what does that include? I once had a client who was accused of being a sex offender because, when he himself was a (low mental level) 22 year old, he married a (higher mental level, but not much) 16 year old girl. The Division of Family Services “experts” absolutely swore and be d—ed that he was a pedophile based on that.

Some cultures tend to have more of it than others, if defined by age alone. It wasn’t so long ago in this part of the country that girls getting married at 15 or 16 was extremely common. Almost the rule. And it wasn’t uncommon for them to marry men who were in their twenties. I’m not naive enough to believe they were all virgins at the altar. Lots of those marriages were “shotgun weddings”. But people like that don’t belong in the same statistical base as a grown man who sexually molests a five year old or three year old girl. I’m not sure they are in the statistics you mention, but I’m not sure they aren’t, either.

I know a man who got himself on the registry as a 30 year old meth head for having noncoital sex with a 15 (going on 30) year old meth head girl. (he didn’t get her on it) Again, I don’t see that as the same thing as the baby molesters, and they ought not to be considered in the same data base.

I have had contact with real, true pedophiles, the ones who molest little kids, and they are from a different world than you and I. A different universe. They know exactly what they’re doing; do it repeatedly; are narcissists to the core and don’t belong in society, ever. They’re the ones who often kill their victims to avoid getting caught. Those guys are as cold as ice and have no remorse whatever. They can hold back indefinitely if the situation isn’t “right”. They often have astounding patience. They often have the skill to persuade others (vulnerable mothers particularly) to enable them. I have never seen any psychological information on the “causes” of sociopathy of that sort, or of narcissism itself for that matter. But those people aren’t “crazed” or “confused”. They’re just evil. They made a decision for it, and affirmatively keep that decision made. I genuinely believe they prefer children precisely because it’s so cruel.
 
So the general consensus is that sex offenders are untreatable, without remorse and nothing but a threat that should be locked away?

That certainly tells me that real information about sex offenders in general isn’t reaching most people.

This is true for the vast majority of sex crimes. A very small percentage are committed by people incapable of making a moral decision, and a small percentage are committed by people who cannot see other people as people (i.e. psychopaths). The rest are committed by people who, for a variety of reasons, chose to seek their own pleasure at the expense of others.

Studies fail to corroborate this. Even the studies that put recidivism rates as high as 50% agree that at least half of all sex offenders never commit another offense. Most therapists who work with (non-psychopathic) sex offenders will attest that a large percentage of those in treatment make an honest effort to turn their lives around. Those offenders are horrified by their actions and want nothing like it to ever happen again.

Consider also that most studies put recidivism rates around 25-30%, but that number drops significantly if you only look at reoffense rates (and yes, that takes into consideration arrests for reoffense that get plead down to something less). Consider that studies show a marked correlation between reduction of recidivism rates and therapy. (Some studies say a drop from 22% to 15%, others from 14% to 7%, and some even from 11% to 4%.)

A large number of cases that reach the public eye certainly would attest to this, but in actuality this isn’t the case. Now, I’m not claiming sex offenders accidentally fall into their sex crimes. Not in the slightest. But the vast majority of sex offenders take an opportunity that’s presented. There’s a long psychological description for what goes on in an offender’s mind, but here’s the short version:

A person is feeling stress of some sort. He thinks about how he wants to relieve that stress. Then he goes does what he was thinking about. That’s typical of anyone. But here’s where it gets tricky. When someone goes into deviant behavior, the thinking really starts churning. There’s a long dialogue between the emotions (the stress, the desire to relieve the stress) and the mind, the former asking for something, anything, to be done, the latter trying interject reason, especially if the action under consideration is immoral or indecent in some way. Eventually, for the sex crime to occur, the mind has to be talked into believing that a) he’s not doing anything wrong and b) that he’s not actually hurting the person involved.

So yes, you can say there’s premeditation involved, but this isn’t cold, calculated meditation; it’s usually an intense internal debate that ends with the wrong conclusion. Here’s the thing: quite often the crime has to occur rather quickly after the decision to commit the crime has been reached. Why? Because if enough time passes, that whole cognitive-emotive cycle will start up again and the offender could quite easily change his mind.

I won’t disagree that sex crimes are vile and terrible acts, but very people commit such crimes with evil intentions. They don’t want the other person hurt; they just want the stress they are feeling to go away. Now, granted, there are plenty of cases out there where people will deliberately hurt someone else to relieve their own pain, but that’s hardly limited to sex offenders.

On that note, you’ll find overlap all over the place: sex offenses committed because of anger, sex offenses committed because drugs lowered inhibitions, etc. But the vast majority of sex offenses are committed by people who don’t want to hurt someone else. They’re just very convincing in talking themselves into believing they’re not hurting someone else by using them as a sexual object. And there’s the main reason why sex offenders, by and large, can be (and often are) rehabilitated. They do feel remorse, often steaming heaps of remorse. But that guilt can manifest in two ways: it can either become a stressor that leads someone to commit another offense, or it can become motivation to stop. Usually, until an offender is caught, convicted, and sentenced, it ends up being the former. After they’re caught, and they have some stiff consequences staring them in the face the rest of their lives, then, with some help, they’ll make the painful journey towards a healthy life.

See, the thing that worries me is the general attitude that only a vile, depraved, and utterly evil person commits sex crimes. This is a problematic viewpoint, because it does play into the mental game that goes through some sex offenders’ heads. Here’s the mental thinking that I’m talking about:

A) I would like have sex with this 13-year-old

C) Isn’t that a sex crime?

A) But only completely evil psychopaths commit sex crimes.

C) Really? But you’re not an evil person.

A) Exactly. Thus it wouldn’t be a sex crime it would be (love, giving, some great romantic notion that makes it seem like it is something other than the use of a child for sexual gratification).

C) Ah. I guess it’s all right then.

Now, I know you’ll want to object and say, “Just because he thinks he’s not an evil person doesn’t make it so.” But here’s the thing. No one person is define solely through a narrow set of actions. The sex crime is not the whole of the sex offender. It was a choice, not a whole lifestyle (though I’ll agree there are some depraved sick-o’s out there that do make it a lifestyle), and when it is not a whole lifestyle, there is the potential for rehabilitation.

But that’s besides the point. The main point is this. Most sex offenders never actually thought to themselves, “Let’s go out a commit a sex crime!” To a large extent, they do feel that they just fell into the crime. The truth is that there are all kinds of warning signs along the way that were ignored. And it is those warning signs in particular that I wanted to people to think about (brainstorm even) in this thread.

The truth is that most sex offenders are repentant and want to lead a normal, healthy life. And that tells me that we can work to prevent sex crimes from ever occurring by spreading information on what does contribute to sex crimes. Saying that sex crimes are committed only by cold-hearted, calculating, unrepentant psychopaths is both false and damaging. It masks the true underlying causes.
I don’t know where you are getting this information, but I have treated sex offenders and alot of your information is incomplete, out of context, and some is just outriught false.

I think the problem to start with is the term “sex offender” the catagory is too big. a Pedophile and a guy who gets drunk and slaps a waitress on the rear end may both be labled as sex offenders.

There are many different types of sexual behavior, especially in children, that may be lumped in with sex offenses which in fact are sexual expermentation. Their actions may be inappropriate but not at all the same in motive as that of true sex offender.

The goal of a sexual offender is primarily power and controll, sexual gratification is secondary and probably due to many of the reasons you have stated in your previous posts.

The recidivisom rate amoung actual adult sex offenders is actually quite high, much higher than the 50% you quoted.( I will try and find actual statistic, I could be wrong)

If you are interested in learning the latest information about the treatment of sex offenders you can contact Dr. Christensen. He stays up to date on all latest information and research. The Sex Offender Treatment Couse he offers is now sometimes given around the country, you may check to see if he will be in your area.

louisville.edu/kent/jsoccp/index.html
 
Recidivism is the chance of getting caught more than once. Getting caught once can teach them how not to get caught again. I don’t put much store in it.
I think there is a difference between sexually using a child under three, a three to seven year old, a seven to ten year old, a preteen, a young teen and a late adolescent (about 17-21). That’s five categories. I’d also put kinds of sex abuse in five categories by severity and then set penalties on a 5x5 grid with the worst cruelty to the youngest kids punished most harshly, and the least abusive acts upon kids who are really young men or women punished with a fine and some classes on socially acceptable behavior; making a proposal of marriage to a high schooler who is free to say no without repercussions of any kind isn’t sexual abuse but it does tend toward more divorce and marital prooblems. Abduction and rape of toddlers and infants is almost as harmful as murder, crueller in some ways, and never excusable to any degree. It should be punished so severely that the story is told around the world for centuries, so no one ever forgets. Offenses in the middle should get punished to an in-between degree, with imprisonment up to and including LWOP. In prison they should wear a distinctive uniform so new convicts know what they are in for.
 
I don’t know where you are getting this information, but I have treated sex offenders and alot of your information is incomplete, out of context, and some is just outriught false.
I’m taking it from a number of studies I found solely through Google Scholar, dating from the early 80’s through 2004, I think. Unfortunately, I don’t have them archived, so I can’t quote specifically which ones I’m talking about. Going to Google Scholar and using the key words “sex offender recidivism rates” brings up a lot of titles that are familiar, but I’ll have to get back to you one which ones I actually looked at.
If you are interested in learning the latest information about the treatment of sex offenders you can contact Dr. Christensen. He stays up to date on all latest information and research. The Sex Offender Treatment Couse he offers is now sometimes given around the country, you may check to see if he will be in your area.
I’m also pulling a lot of information from a therapist who treats sex offenders, a man by the name of Chuck Denison. I know I shouldn’t attribute anything to him specifically, but he’s also certain that reoffense and recidivism rates remain very low for sex offenders. The numbers he cited ranged from 17% to 30%, depending on the study.
I’m not sure how much I believe in the recidivism statistics. I have seen a lot of “first time” sex offenders who, if you dig far enough and diligently enough, have actually been engaging in it a long time but have simply not been caught. Generally speaking, sexual predators are very good at avoidance of getting caught.
I think there is a difference between sexually using a child under three, a three to seven year old, a seven to ten year old, a preteen, a young teen and a late adolescent (about 17-21). That’s five categories.
I should specify that I believe the worst offenders, the ones that we naturally think of when we use the term “sex offender” (i.e. the psychopathic pedophiles), are untreatable. Their psychopathy makes it impossible for them to feel or find remorse (they can play the game, true, but they don’t have any empathy for other human beings). The offenders I am most worried about are the ones that are in the middle. In other words, I’m not worried about the 18-year-olds caught giving oral sex to their 16.73-year-old girl-friends, and I’m not worried about the psychopaths.

In between, though, is a whole range of abuse that still does include child molestation and rape. The people who commit these crimes can learn to have empathy for their victims and others, and the symptoms these people usually exhibit (at least in my experience) is a deep, chronic tension, coupled with low self-esteem or all-out self-loathing and a tendency to seek relief through sexual pleasure.
I’d also put kinds of sex abuse in five categories by severity and then set penalties on a 5x5 grid with the worst cruelty to the youngest kids punished most harshly, and the least abusive acts upon kids who are really young men or women punished with a fine and some classes on socially acceptable behavior;
I like this idea.

I suppose that I should clarify.
 
Here are some papers I looked at:

Actuarial Assessment of Sex Offender Recidivism Risk:
A Cross-Validation of the RRASOR and the Static-99
in Sweden

Recidivism Rates Among Child Molesters and
Rapists: A Methodological Analysis

Sex Offender
Recidivism:
A Simple Question

Each of these are found pretty quickly at Google Scholar (meaning that most links are to peer-reviewed material), and there are many others. Each give pretty low recidivism rates, well below the 50% I mentioned before.

Some links to consider, though the last two are news articles rather than scientific reports:

sexual-offender-treatment.org/55.98.html
csom.org/pubs/recidsexof.html
livescience.com/strangenews/060516_predator_panic.html
vnews.com/sexcrimes/recidivism.htm

This list is far from comprehensive of material I’ve looked at, but it is a place to start.
 
Sex offender recidivism is far and away less than gang-related activity, extremely violent felonies, and organized crime. Far, Far less.

People don’t seem to understand that convicts of extremely violent crime nearly always commit another violent felony. The questions are:
  1. does the crime ever get reported?
  2. was the offender caught?
Almost no gang-related assaults, threats, rapes ect get reported. They rely on “blood justice”, and exact appropriate revenge on the offending gang. Organized crime is the same way, and the general violent offender commits 4-10 violent felonies before coming under suspicion again.

People worry about sex offenders roaming the streets, preying on children. Really?

Yet, they don’t seem to concerned about the guy that just did 15-20 for multiple armed robbery, attempted murder, torturing a rival gang member, or Lord knows what other vicious crime.

There are people getting out of prison who literally have assaulted dozens of people, robbed countless businesses, beaten rivals to bloody messes, and have hair triggers that will kill anyone they want to. They even tell prison guards what they are going to do when they get out. That’s not counting all the crimes they commit while in prison, 85% of which are not filed as additional charges!! They just lose their “earned time”, and end up doing their whole sentence.

And we let them live as close as possible to a school, liquor store, gun store, or anywhere else that they so desire. They can hangout at a church or school playground anytime they want, so long as they aren’t registered as a sex offender.

So we put a leash on the 18 year old who has sex with a 17 year old, but we let MS-13, Surrenos, Hell’s Angels, D-Boyz and any other sociopaths and murderers hang around anywhere they want to at all.

Isn’t the US great?
 
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