What do you predict would happen if a traditional Catholic pope was elected?

[trad_catholic33]

Imagine for a moment a traditional Catholic pope is elected.

He annuls the Second Vatican Council (since the council was only pastoral) and restores the traditional practices, devotions, rubrics, and discipline as it was before the Council.

The Novus Ordo Missae is abolished and goes down in Church history as a footnote. He restores back the Mass that was codified in 1570 by Pope Saint Pius V to be said in perpetuity by any Catholic priest, the Traditional Latin Mass.

What effect would this have on the current Church hierarchy?

 

[WalkWithMe123]

I would imagine there would be somewhat of an uproar in the laity…to an extent. People who are “Holiday Catholics” (Christmas, Easter, etc.) would probably not take to that too kindly. Not sure with regard to the hierarchy. I think they would simply follow the declaration. Although, it would have a tremendous effect on the education in the seminaries (probably?) and today’s priests would also have to learn/relearn/recall the Latin Mass in its entirety again.

 

[mburn16]

Uproar among the laity, and probably another schism in which large numbers of people abandon Rome for an offshoot branch of Catholicism.

This isn’t to say we can’t get a traditionalist Pope, who would restore traditional practices and Ceremony, but moving back to ONLY being the TLM…most Priests can’t even say a TLM anymore. Liturgical reform, yes. But I think you’re more likely to see something like the AUO than the TLM.

 

[CMatt25]

Imagine for a moment a traditional Catholic pope is elected.

He annuls the Second Vatican Council (since the council was only pastoral) and restores the traditional practices, devotions, rubrics, and discipline as it was before the Council.

The Novus Ordo Missae is abolished and goes down in Church history as a footnote. He restores back the Mass that was codified in 1570 by Pope Saint Pius V to be said in perpetuity by any Catholic priest, the Traditional Latin Mass.

What effect would this have on the current Church hierarchy?

I’m not sure what choice the hierarchy would have but I guess to go along. You might see even fewer Baptized Catholics in the pews and practicing than you do now though. But maybe that’s what those Catholics want when they speak in terms of even if a smaller Church.

 

[malambo]

The Church cannot ignore an Ecumenical Council, be it only pastoral or only dogmatic - if you can make such divisions. A new pope will not do that. How can he ignore his predecessors, great popes like John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul II and Benedict XVI?
The desire to go back to pre-Vatican II times is wishful thinking and a dream. There is a Bemba proverb, here in Zambia, that says: Ulubwelela numa lulalya, meaning: Going back eats you. Even if a Pope tries to go back to old times, it will never be the same. Can you impose the mass in Latin in Africa? Is Latin God’s language?
In this year of faith, let us redouble our efforts to be faithful servants of the Lord, true witnesses of his death and resurrection and bold messengers of the Gospel - the love of God shown to us in Jesus Christ. And let us pray for a Pope that, inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit, may listen to the cries of the people,and may show the mercy and compassion of Jesus Christ.

 

[trad_catholic33]

The Church cannot ignore an Ecumenical Council, be it only pastoral or only dogmatic - if you can make such divisions. A new pope will not do that. How can he ignore his predecessors, great popes like John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul II and Benedict XVI?
The desire to go back to pre-Vatican II times is wishful thinking and a dream. There is a Bemba proverb, here in Zambia, that says: Ulubwelela numa lulalya, meaning: Going back eats you. Even if a Pope tries to go back to old times, it will never be the same. Can you impose the mass in Latin in Africa? Is Latin God’s language?
In this year of faith, let us redouble our efforts to be faithful servants of the Lord, true witnesses of his death and resurrection and bold messengers of the Gospel - the love of God shown to us in Jesus Christ. And let us pray for a Pope that, inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit, may listen to the cries of the people,and may show the mercy and compassion of Jesus Christ.

It is actually canonically possible for a future pope to annul the outcome of the council, as it was merely a pastoral council:

• The Council of Ephesus (449), which was regularly called and attended by all the East and by delegates from Pope St. Leo the great, was annulled by that pope’s subsequent opposition to it and was branded as the Latrocinium, or “Robbers’ Council”
• The Council of Hieria (754) was annulled by Pope Stephen II in 769. This council had introduced and blessed iconoclasm.
• The Council of Pistoia (1794), which was attended by the Holy Roman Emperor Joseph II, the bishops of France, and some bishops of Italy, was annulled by Pope Pius VI. It had adopted “reforms” and liturgical experiments that resemble to a significant extent the innovations of Vatican II (1962-1965), including the provisions that there be only one “table” in each church and that it should not be ornamented with flowers or relics. The council condemned processions in honor of the Blessed Virgin and the Saints, the Rosary, the Way of the Cross, and images. It demanded a “simplified” Mass said entirely out loud in the vulgar tongues. Pope Pius VI, in annulling the decrees of the council, called them “rash, offensive to pious ears, insulting to the Church, favorable to the charges of heretics against it.”

 

[TimothyH]

The Church cannot ignore an Ecumenical Council, be it only pastoral or only dogmatic - if you can make such divisions. A new pope will not do that. How can he ignore his predecessors, great popes like John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul II and Benedict XVI?
The desire to go back to pre-Vatican II times is wishful thinking and a dream. There is a Bemba proverb, here in Zambia, that says: Ulubwelela numa lulalya, meaning: Going back eats you. Even if a Pope tries to go back to old times, it will never be the same. Can you impose the mass in Latin in Africa? Is Latin God’s language?
In this year of faith, let us redouble our efforts to be faithful servants of the Lord, true witnesses of his death and resurrection and bold messengers of the Gospel - the love of God shown to us in Jesus Christ. And let us pray for a Pope that, inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit, may listen to the cries of the people,and may show the mercy and compassion of Jesus Christ.

It’s not wishful thinking, nor is it a dream. It is pure fantasy, like dragons and fairies wizards and Bilbo Baggins.

The Holy Spirit has guided the Church to this point for God’s purpose. We can’t see God’s purpose in the worldwide Church and would all do well to tend faithfully to the small things which God has placed in our daily lives; “Faithful servants of the Lord” as you have said.

90% of us can’t even maintain the Friday fast, and about 20% of us can barely sit still and pray for one hour straight, and here we are all worried about repealing Vatican II?

My view… repeal of Vatican II means that the Church was a lie and God doesn’t exist.

-Tim-

 

[otjm]

Imagine for a moment a traditional Catholic pope is elected.

He annuls the Second Vatican Council (since the council was only pastoral) and restores the traditional practices, devotions, rubrics, and discipline as it was before the Council.

The Novus Ordo Missae is abolished and goes down in Church history as a footnote. He restores back the Mass that was codified in 1570 by Pope Saint Pius V to be said in perpetuity by any Catholic priest, the Traditional Latin Mass.

What effect would this have on the current Church hierarchy?

None, since the Holy Spirit protects the Church in matters of faith and morals, and since the Council was a magisterial act, the only place your proposal will happen is in a fantasy or science fiction book.

 

[Polycarp1]

None, since the Holy Spirit protects the Church in matters of faith and morals, and since the Council was a magisterial act, the only place your proposal will happen is in a fantasy or science fiction book.

Yes silly question!

 

[aemcpa]

Can you impose the mass in Latin in Africa?

The Mass has been in Latin in Africa for 1600 years. St. Augustine was bishop in Africa.

 

[porthos11]

Imagine for a moment a traditional Catholic pope is elected.

He annuls the Second Vatican Council (since the council was only pastoral) and restores the traditional practices, devotions, rubrics, and discipline as it was before the Council.

The Novus Ordo Missae is abolished and goes down in Church history as a footnote. He restores back the Mass that was codified in 1570 by Pope Saint Pius V to be said in perpetuity by any Catholic priest, the Traditional Latin Mass.

What effect would this have on the current Church hierarchy?

Great. the “Only Pastoral” phrase again. Vatican II was an ecumenical council of the Church, fully ratfied by the Popes and is therefore an act of the Magisterium. No Catholic has the option to disobey or even disregard it even if it did not define any new dogma (also, without making any accusations against the OP, I usually find that Vatican II is described as “pastoral” by those seeking reasons to disobey, discredit or disregard it).

1570? And ignore 500 years of saints, and even the much improved rites and ceremonies since 1955?

 

[PaulfromIowa]

All of the recent Popes have been traditional Catholics. Your implication that they have been something other than that is simply incorrect.

 

[dshix]

Imagine for a moment a traditional Catholic pope is elected.

He annuls the Second Vatican Council (since the council was only pastoral) and restores the traditional practices, devotions, rubrics, and discipline as it was before the Council.

The Novus Ordo Missae is abolished and goes down in Church history as a footnote. He restores back the Mass that was codified in 1570 by Pope Saint Pius V to be said in perpetuity by any Catholic priest, the Traditional Latin Mass.

What effect would this have on the current Church hierarchy?

This is ludicrous. Annuls Vatican II?

Rather, ENFORCES Vatican II. The Novus Ordo as we have it has many abuses and DOES NOT follow the instructions of Vatican II, Mediator Dei, or many other documents which are intended for the giving of instructions for the mass.

I do not think a traditional pope would shock the Church by suddenly changing everything at one blow. That would be very foolish.

Rather, he would carefully and slowly change bits and pieces of the liturgy, begin making comprehensive pushes to inform the laity of the teaching of the Church, and gradually pave the way to a more orthodox Church.

 

[Megan7]

Imagine for a moment a traditional Catholic pope is elected.

He annuls the Second Vatican Council (since the council was only pastoral) and restores the traditional practices, devotions, rubrics, and discipline as it was before the Council.

The Novus Ordo Missae is abolished and goes down in Church history as a footnote. He restores back the Mass that was codified in 1570 by Pope Saint Pius V to be said in perpetuity by any Catholic priest, the Traditional Latin Mass.

What effect would this have on the current Church hierarchy?

It would be amazing Thank you!

 

[R_C]

Imagine for a moment a traditional Catholic pope is elected.

Imagine?!? I’m praying hard for that!

He annuls the Second Vatican Council (since the council was only pastoral) and restores the traditional practices, devotions, rubrics, and discipline as it was before the Council.

The Novus Ordo Missae is abolished and goes down in Church history as a footnote. He restores back the Mass that was codified in 1570 by Pope Saint Pius V to be said in perpetuity by any Catholic priest, the Traditional Latin Mass.

You want me to cry? :crying: This kind of event does not happen in real life. Summorum Pontificum is already a miracle.

What effect would this have on the current Church hierarchy?

Well, it would be a bit too drastic of a change, so it would probably be reason of scandal and confusion. Which is also why I can’t see this happening. I may be wrong, but I believe that many - if not most - priests did not receive the same kind of teaching in Latin, etc. therefore they would not be able to simply pick up the traditional liturgical books and use them…or even understand them. As for the Mass, it is not easy to go from today’s ordinary Mass to Missa Solemnis without extensive practice, and the faithful who probably lack the necessary understanding for the usage of the Latin language and for facing ad orientem would also probably find themselves very confused.

What do I hope when a traditional bishop becomes the next Holy Father - with regards to the liturgy, of course? That he will reinforce the teaching of the traditional liturgy in seminaries, along with the study of Latin, and that he may pave the road so that in a not too far future every Parrish may offer both the Ordinary and the Extraordinary Form. That would be a very small step and yet it would be of major significance. Oh, and he cracks down on the liturgical abuses regarding musical instruments and EMHCs, and that he establishes more strict rules for RCIA so that only clergy members who have undergone a specific formation or extremely qualified members of the laity (say, theologians or the like) can teach these courses.

 

[Lormar]

None, since the Holy Spirit protects the Church in matters of faith and morals, and since the Council was a magisterial act, the only place your proposal will happen is in a fantasy or science fiction book.

 

[porthos11]

It would be amazing Thank you!

And what? Also roll back the Liturgy of the Hours, and thereby take away from the Church just about the greatest gift the Council has given to all the Church’s members? Annull Gaudium et Spes, and the truths it speaks on the Church’s role in the modern world?

It’s not 1570 anymore.

 

[aemcpa]

And what? Also roll back the Liturgy of the Hours, and thereby take away from the Church just about the greatest gift the Council has given to all the Church’s members? Annull Gaudium et Spes, and the truths it speaks on the Church’s role in the modern world?

It’s not 1570 anymore.

The Second Vatican Council invented the breviary? Who knew? Also, Gaudium et Spes is so dated that it was practically meaningless in ten years. Dei Verbum, on the other hand, is a document that will bear fruit for centuries.

 

[porthos11]

The Second Vatican Council invented the breviary? Who knew?

Sarcasm?

The Liturgy of the Hours is the specific name for the post-conciliar Breviary. It wasn’t called that prior to the reforms.

The Liturgy of the Hours is a great spiritual benefit to me. The 1961 Roman Breviary is not. Roll back the Liturgy of the Hours and you deprive me and many others of full participation in the Church’s official prayer.

Good thing you mention Dei Verbum too. But it looks like some people would still roll that back anyway, just because it’s Vatican II.

 

[georget]

I see heads popping all over MSNBC.