What do you say to a Christian who no longer celebrates Christmas, but CHANUKAH?

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My dear long time best friend, does not celebrate Christmas anymore. She won’t even say Christ or Christmas, but instead celebrates Channukah, a nd calls Jesus Yeshua. She got into Zola Levitt’s Messianic Christian movement of “congregations.” She won’t say “church” instead “go to worship.” I am kind of stupefied as to what to say. I have yet to share with her much of my Catholic conversion story. She knows I am a faithful Christian still, and is probably AS if not more stupefied that I became a Catholic.

To me Christmas, if not the ANNUNCIATION, are the BIG HOLY DAYS! God became flesh and dwelt among us! What could be bigger than that??? Why wouldn’t you want to celebrate when the Creator came to dwell among us?

(Of course, Easter has always been the highlight of my liturgical year)

I think this friend and her husband are ripe to come into the Catholic Church, if it is just presented well with grace; so I have held off coming at her full force. 😃

Would love to hear your thoughts.
 
I would go to Paul for this one. Nowhere does Paul ever call refer to Christ as Yeshua. Paul repeatedly uses the terms Jesus and Christ and Christ Jesus. Paul writes to the churches, not to the ‘places of worship’. Point these out and ask if Paul is wrong in calling Jesus as Jesus or Christ. The answer may be enlightening.
 
Messianic Judaism is fascinating. That said, the people who practice this are Christians who choose to follow a lot of unnecessary ritual. They are not Jews and cannot ever be Jews nomatter what laws they follow, even if they follow those mitzvot more strictly than real Jews.

Believing in Christ, in and of itself, makes them non-Jewish. To Jews, they are worshipping other Gods and not only aren’t Jewish, they are performing an unpardonable sin by Jewish law. Following all the laws to include keeping Kosher, not working on the Sabbath and not wearing clothes with two types of thread become irrelevant if you break the law regarding worshipping what Judaism would consider a false God.

I think people who are drawn to Jewish customs, traditions and laws most likely have some form of OCD and a confusion regarding Christianity, but I also think they are sincere and that it is rather lovely that they strive so hard to please God, however mistaken. Many people love ritual which is not specifically sinful.

I think it’s highly probable these sincere people will go to Heaven if they believe in Christ and are doing their utmost best to love God and love their neighbors as themselves.
 
First of all, there is nothing wrong with the name Yeshua. The more familiar name “Jesus” is just the Latin form of Yeshua.

There is also nothing wrong with doing Hannukah, either. But if your friend is not Jewish, why would she do Hannukah and not Christmas? Isn’t our LORD the center of their faith life? If so, shouldn’t they celebrate HIM? If not, shouldn’t HE be?

ICXC NIKA
 
graceandglory said:
(Of course, Easter has always been the highlight of my liturgical year)
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Easter is also the highlight of the Roman Catholic liturgical year. 😉

I’d pray for her and invite her to Mass (be ready to attend her services too). Also I’d try to maintain a dialogue with her rather than trying to convert her to Catholicism. Learn more about Messianic Judaism so that you’ll be better able to have discussions with her.

Celebrate her holidays with her and invite her to celebrate Catholic holidays with you.
 
graceandglory said:
My dear long time best friend, does not celebrate Christmas anymore. She won’t even say Christ or Christmas, but instead celebrates Channukah, a nd calls Jesus Yeshua. She got into Zola Levitt’s Messianic Christian movement of “congregations.” She won’t say “church” instead “go to worship.” I am kind of stupefied as to what to say. I have yet to share with her much of my Catholic conversion story. She knows I am a faithful Christian still, and is probably AS if not more stupefied that I became a Catholic.

To me Christmas, if not the ANNUNCIATION, are the BIG HOLY DAYS! God became flesh and dwelt among us! What could be bigger than that??? Why wouldn’t you want to celebrate when the Creator came to dwell among us?

(Of course, Easter has always been the highlight of my liturgical year)

I think this friend and her husband are ripe to come into the Catholic Church, if it is just presented well with grace; so I have held off coming at her full force. 😃

Would love to hear your thoughts.
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So is your friend considering converting to Judaism?

It doesn’t seem like she really has much affinity for Christianity if she skips out on big Christian holy days in favor of Jewish ones. It’s not even that she’s celebrating both.

I know you say that she’s been taking part in Messianic Jewish congregations, but since they are Christians, wouldn’t they be practicing traditional Christian holidays like Christmas?

Truthfully, I don’t even understand any kind of affinity for Messianic Judaism. If I’m a non-Jewish Christian, why would I want to immerse myself in a denomination that emphasizes Jewish culture? That’s well and fine for a person of ethnic Jewish descent, but otherwise…
 
graceandglory said:
My dear long time best friend, does not celebrate Christmas anymore. She won’t even say Christ or Christmas, but instead celebrates Channukah, a nd calls Jesus Yeshua. She got into Zola Levitt’s Messianic Christian movement of “congregations.” She won’t say “church” instead “go to worship.” I am kind of stupefied as to what to say. I have yet to share with her much of my Catholic conversion story. She knows I am a faithful Christian still, and is probably AS if not more stupefied that I became a Catholic.

To me Christmas, if not the ANNUNCIATION, are the BIG HOLY DAYS! God became flesh and dwelt among us! What could be bigger than that??? Why wouldn’t you want to celebrate when the Creator came to dwell among us?

(Of course, Easter has always been the highlight of my liturgical year)

I think this friend and her husband are ripe to come into the Catholic Church, if it is just presented well with grace; so I have held off coming at her full force. 😃

Would love to hear your thoughts./QUOTE
There are always fools who will profess belief in almost anything to call attention to themselves!
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FabiusMaximus said:
So is your friend considering converting to Judaism?

It doesn’t seem like she really has much affinity for Christianity if she skips out on big Christian holy days in favor of Jewish ones. It’s not even that she’s celebrating both.

I know you say that she’s been taking part in Messianic Jewish congregations, but since they are Christians, wouldn’t they be practicing traditional Christian holidays like Christmas?

Truthfully, I don’t even understand any kind of affinity for Messianic Judaism. If I’m a non-Jewish Christian, why would I want to immerse myself in a denomination that emphasizes Jewish culture? That’s well and fine for a person of ethnic Jewish descent, but otherwise…
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While It may be more attractive to ethnic Jews, some Protestants are drawn to it in a (IMNAAHO) misguided effort to “get closer to Biblical faith” by embracing the cultural aspects of Judaism. The problem with that is that neither our LORD, nor the apostles made Jewish culture or religion a prerequsite of faith. Greco-Romans, etc, who turned to HIM were not urged to embrace Judaism.

ICXC NIKA.
 
FabiusMaximus said:
I know you say that she’s been taking part in Messianic Jewish congregations, but since they are Christians, wouldn’t they be practicing traditional Christian holidays like Christmas?
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Apparently not, at least for some. The Messianic congregations I visited celebrated Pesach and Purim but not Easter.
FabiusMaximus said:
Truthfully, I don’t even understand any kind of affinity for Messianic Judaism. If I’m a non-Jewish Christian, why would I want to immerse myself in a denomination that emphasizes Jewish culture? That’s well and fine for a person of ethnic Jewish descent, but otherwise…
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I more or less agree. I’m reasonably familiar, at least for a non-Jew, with Jewish rituals, practices, and understanding, and they all tie nicely and very consistently with Judaism.

While the Messianics I encountered were generous and friendly, it also seemed they were trying to adopt something that didn’t quite fit them.

Messiasm exists in a world both Jews and Christians reject. It’s a movement that can serve some people’s spiritual voids–and believe me, it does–but I don’t see it surviving for long.
 
graceandglory said:
My dear long time best friend, does not celebrate Christmas anymore. She won’t even say Christ or Christmas, but instead celebrates Channukah, a nd calls Jesus Yeshua. She got into Zola Levitt’s Messianic Christian movement of “congregations.” She won’t say “church” instead “go to worship.” I am kind of stupefied as to what to say. I have yet to share with her much of my Catholic conversion story. She knows I am a faithful Christian still, and is probably AS if not more stupefied that I became a Catholic.

To me Christmas, if not the ANNUNCIATION, are the BIG HOLY DAYS! God became flesh and dwelt among us! What could be bigger than that??? Why wouldn’t you want to celebrate when the Creator came to dwell among us?
(Of course, Easter has always been the highlight of my liturgical year)
I think this friend and her husband are ripe to come into the Catholic Church, if it is just presented well with grace; so I have held off coming at her full force. 😃
Would love to hear your thoughts.
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I’d get a clear idea of her thoughts about Messianism, or waiting for her to initiate, before giving your opinion.

She may indeed be considering conversion to Judaism, but moving to a Messianic congregation is a tentative step in that direction, IMO. The communities I visited were basically charismatic (dancing, flags, glitter) and evangelical, except that their sermons and songs were laced with Hebrew. I thought they would seem more Jewish, but the congregants seemed more Protestant than I ever was.

I think it wiser that you hold off bringing them toward Catholicism, until they show steps that they’re willing and ready.
 
graceandglory said:
My dear long time best friend, does not celebrate Christmas anymore. She won’t even say Christ or Christmas, but instead celebrates Channukah, a nd calls Jesus Yeshua. She got into Zola Levitt’s Messianic Christian movement of “congregations.” She won’t say “church” instead “go to worship.” I am kind of stupefied as to what to say. I have yet to share with her much of my Catholic conversion story. She knows I am a faithful Christian still, and is probably AS if not more stupefied that I became a Catholic.

To me Christmas, if not the ANNUNCIATION, are the BIG HOLY DAYS! God became flesh and dwelt among us! What could be bigger than that??? Why wouldn’t you want to celebrate when the Creator came to dwell among us?

(Of course, Easter has always been the highlight of my liturgical year)

I think this friend and her husband are ripe to come into the Catholic Church, if it is just presented well with grace; so I have held off coming at her full force. 😃

Would love to hear your thoughts.
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This is a fascinating group. What we have here is Jewish/Protestants of a sort. I suggest a good study of the book of Romans, Romans 7, the Old Covenant and works of the law, all the old ceremonial laws are gone. In my opinion although I am not so sure that I would say they are equivalent to the Judaizing Chrisitians as Paul writes about, however they are a type of Judaizing Christian. They tend to spend lots of time in the Old Testament. This in and of itself is not bad.

My experience with these people is to listen to thier Old Testament quotes as they believe that they have some revelation about God and interject what you know and say…but the Old Covenant is dead and the Old Covenant prefigured the New Covenant…and Jesus is Lord…etc…I do not recall any New Testament writings telling us to celebrate Christmas or Easter and for sure not Channuka.

This then allows a transition to the history of the Church…passover as Supper of the Lamb…

One messianic wanted me to go to his church and I asked for the website and statement of faith. I discovered that it was backed by AOG. You may want to look into these pieces of information. This made for an interesting conversation. AOG/Messianic?

They drive me nuts and I find them annoying…👍
 
graceandglory said:
My dear long time best friend, does not celebrate Christmas anymore. She won’t even say Christ or Christmas, but instead celebrates Channukah, a nd calls Jesus Yeshua. She got into Zola Levitt’s Messianic Christian movement of “congregations.” She won’t say “church” instead “go to worship.” I am kind of stupefied as to what to say. I have yet to share with her much of my Catholic conversion story. She knows I am a faithful Christian still, and is probably AS if not more stupefied that I became a Catholic.

To me Christmas, if not the ANNUNCIATION, are the BIG HOLY DAYS! God became flesh and dwelt among us! What could be bigger than that??? Why wouldn’t you want to celebrate when the Creator came to dwell among us?

(Of course, Easter has always been the highlight of my liturgical year)

I think this friend and her husband are ripe to come into the Catholic Church, if it is just presented well with grace; so I have held off coming at her full force. 😃

Would love to hear your thoughts.
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I use to get Zola Levitt’s newsletters, watched his tv show etc. Levitt’s ministry, per his website is aimed at converting Jews first. Then Gentiles. The more I read his newsletters, listened to him and watched his shows, the more my thoughts went too…he is using catch protestant evangelical phrases to draw protestants in. Another was, he is showing how protestantism has thrown out the baby with the bath water, so to speak, in regards to tradition, worship etc. The last thought, which caused me to stop reading, listening and watching…Judaizers. Zola placed too much emphasis on the things the Judaizers in Acts and other Epistles were called on by the Apostles and were the cause of the first Church Council recorded in Acts of the Apostles.

Zola was a Jew who converted and did not want to leave his Jewishness in worship behind. He tried to remake what he thought a First Century Church would have been like with unexpected results of keeping Jewish traditions that do not fit with Christian theology. Placing Jewish rituals and Holy Days in place of Christian. Not celebrating Easter? or Christmas? Too high Holy Days for Christdom? Too often it was either/or with Zola. He wanted to reintroduce a Jewishness to Christianity that has not been seen since the First Century. While it is not bad to celebrate Jewish Holy Days with our Jewish friends, they should not replace our days of obligation, Holy Days and worship.

I use the past tense for Zola, He died from cancer back in 2006.
 
CopticChristian said:
One messianic wanted me to go to his church and I asked for the website and statement of faith. I discovered that it was backed by AOG. You may want to look into these pieces of information. This made for an interesting conversation. AOG/Messianic?

They drive me nuts and I find them annoying…👍
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BINGO! She is raised AG/now “Messianic.”
She reads only from “The CJV” The Complete Jewish Version, written by Christians, of course! How can you have a Complete Jewish Version of the New Testament??? 🤷
 
Colossians 2:16-17

“Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.”

Most of the people that I’ve come across that celebrate all the Jewish festivals and do not celebrate Christmas and Easter do so because they feel they are somehow closer to God but really they are stuck in their own form of legalism. They are often just like the Pharisees and look down on others as being less holy than they.
 
Catholics whom truly follow the faith place in correct perspective the understanding of Christmas or Easter for example. And this doesn’t include pagan thinking.

Bunnys and Eggs on easter have nothing to do with Christ.

Or Halloween of most recent days past should be viewed by Catholics as All Saints day. Which it is, not some demonic pagan celebration.

Peace
 
What she’s doing is called “Judaizing” which means in laymens terms acting like a Galatian. The whole epistle to the Galatians Paul chastized them for trying to keep the Jewish law and when and if they did they were forsaking grace. That they are putting themselves in bondage to the Old Law which Christ nailed to the cross.

Most Judaizers say they keep the sabbath, feast days, have the tassels, eat kosher etc. etc. and if pressed will say that a person is sinning who doesn’t keep those rules they’ll site the verses as “everlasting” etc. I’ve tried to talk to some Siclilian guy who was born in a Christian home that turned hardcore Messianic and they will use the verse “let no man judge according to sabbath day…” etc. as US (Christians) judging them for keeping the sabbath when Paul CLEARLY meant that we are not to be judged by Jews/Judiazers for not keeping the Saturday sabbath. They are first class scripture twisters and it is useless frankly trying to argue with them. They are blinded to the truth that we are not Jews (neither are they) and we are not required (or supposed to) keep the 613 OT laws.

My advice love your friend and pray for them but avoid any kind of “why do you follow that law”? conversations.

For those that think I’m being derogatory for using Judaizer please see this link:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaizers
 
GEddie said:
While It may be more attractive to ethnic Jews, some Protestants are drawn to it in a (IMNAAHO) misguided effort to “get closer to Biblical faith” by embracing the cultural aspects of Judaism. The problem with that is that neither our LORD, nor the apostles made Jewish culture or religion a prerequsite of faith. Greco-Romans, etc, who turned to HIM were not urged to embrace Judaism.

ICXC NIKA.
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I think you have hit the nail on the head. They have so much animosity against the Catholics (they can be hard on us Orthodox as well, but nowhere near as hard as they are on Catholics), that they are not willing to look at the ancient Christian church. Instead, they would rather adopt Jewish practices than ancient Christian ones.
 
I think this messianic “judaism” is the latest reflection in what I call: Evangelical fad pop theology. Except for afew hangers on, I think this too will pass.

That is happening with the “rapture” non-denominational denominations, mega churches, etc.

These fads come and go regulalarly.

Someone thinks they have found something brand new in the bible unheard of for 2.000 years. And without a magesterium, holy tradition, a teaching authority they have nothing else to go by other than a private interpretation.
 
Yes, I had looked this up awhile back in the Orthodox tradition and it is very interesting.

Greek Orthodox Easter - April 15, 2012
Greek Easter Traditions & Recipes

The Greek Easter Bread seems similar to the Houska (Czech Easter Bread) but my mother said (as I remember) that the Houska bread is for Christmas? At least my grandmother and mom made it the same way. I wonder if this is an Eastern Orthodox tradition on the way the bread is made and also I know there’s a story behind it and why its made only on certain occasions.
 
And eggs have associations with Judaism as well. They represent the circle of life: birth to death, and are often part of the meal served to the family of a deceased individual during the period of mourning. The hard-boiled egg is also part of the traditional Passover Seder plate.
 
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