H
HOPEFUL_IN_UK
Guest
So… I was looking for information on TLM’s in Scotland and I came across a web site regarding such things. I noticed they were local and I called the number. I talked to a friendly woman who listened to me talk about why I was calling (I am feeling lonely and I miss the sort of community of people I knew in Cincinnati where I attended a very reverent NO Mass at a great parish.) She told me that we ought to meet. I am currently living in a town where, if you’re not born and raised there, they really can’t be bothered and I’m feeling lonely. So, that sounded great. I told her, “I’m going to the (licit) Mass at Sacred Heart tomorow…” and she said, “Oh, no! Don’t go there! Meet me at St. Andrew’s chapel. It’s an SSPX Mass and it’s just much better. All you’ll get at Sacred Heart is Latin prayers with the same old watered-down homily.”
I told her that I wasn’t so sure about that. She assured me that she’s looked into it and it was OK to go. I agreed to go, “unless my husband objects.” DH and I talked about it, and I read about stuff (mostly on here, the Ask the Apologist section) and decided not to risk it. I emailed her and told her that I would be going to the (indult) Mass, instead. I told her that I had concerns and schism and stuff and would just prefer not to go.
By the time she responded - very friendly - I’d already attended the Mass and had a very positive experience. I told her that we would probably be going as a family, but also attending the NO Mass locally on other days. She wrote back saying she was glad I enjoyed the Mass, but was very surprised that I’d even want to attend a NO Mass at all. She said that, while it’s valid, it would be like buying a cut of meat because the butcher said it wouldn’t poison me, rather than because it was delicious. She also gave reasons why I shouldn’t worry about SSPX and said she wanted to meet and said “I won’t try to convince you to attend SSPX.”
So, I agreed to meet her. I called her last night to set up a time. We had the weirdest conversation. I think I was making her angry because I just kept insisting that I think it makes more sense to go to the indult Mass (which is less than two miles from the SSPX, at the exact same time) because it’s better to be obedient. She went so far as to start almost yelling about the problems she has with the priest who says the Mass at Sacred Heart. She said that he’s just another NO priest who recites the Latin Mass and that he has no reverence for the Eucharist. (Apparently, he once participated in an ecumenical prayer service where people said and did things she didn’t like and, along with a group of forty priests, he didn’t publically object.) She agreed that he doesn’t say anything heretical in his homilies, but the homilies at SSPX are just so much better and so you get “the whole package.”
I just kept saying that I think it’s better to attend the licit Mass and that, honestly, I’d rather attend a NO Mass than support disobedience. I also told her that I’m not comfortable with some of the rebellious element that are attracted to the SSPX - referencing an article on her own web site that deplored how a lot of SSPX leaders are rejecting Pope Benedict XVI’s revised prayer for the conversion of Jews.
She got irate. She went on and on, telling me all the sins and faults of the Archbishop and his predecessor. I found this upsetting, I guess. I kept saying that obedience was always pleasing to God and that if the bishops are wrong, they’ll take the rap. She said that she was hurt and surprised to hear me say that I’m going to give tacit consent to the schism she says the mainstream bishops are in.
In short, it was a conversation very much like the debates and arguments you see on here… only, at the end of it, she was still insistent that we meet for coffee this Saturday afternoon.
I am not expecting this to be a friendly get-together, after all. I’ve been in situations, before, when someone has been really keen to meet up with me even though we obviously aren’t hitting it off personally… when that person was trying to sell me Amway or talk me into going to their particular evangelical church. In other words, I feel like she wants to recruit me.
Why do you suppose that is? What do you think she wants?! Obviously, none of you can be expected to know that. I suppose I could go, myself, to find out what she wants. I fully expect her to show up with plenty of printed material for me to read.
I think she thought, when I first called her, that I was a total naive lamb who, annoyed with her parish priest over a trifling matter and professing homesickness for the thriving orthodox Catholic community she had back home, was in need of direction.
It just seems very odd to me… I’m attending a TLM at a diocesan parish. She even said, herself, that the pastor there is “one of the best priests in Glasgow.” (A visiting priest says the Latin Mass.) It’s a parish that desperately needs members. It’s beautiful and old and very historic (Celtic FC was born in this parish). It’s also shabby and crumbling and the pastor is so prayerfully fighting to keep it together, while around him the neighborhood Protestants stage frequent Orange Marches, vandalize the building, and verbally harrass him. Una Voce Scotland supports this parish and I met some lovely people there.
Why are people choosing to go to the SSPX chapel, two miles away, at the same time? They’re not a parish community. They don’t even have a proper pastor. Priests from England drive up on weekends and scoot around Scotland, dispensing Masses.
This all confuses and saddens me. Meanwhile, I’m not sure if I should cancel this coffee meeting with this woman. I have a bad feeling about it.
I told her that I wasn’t so sure about that. She assured me that she’s looked into it and it was OK to go. I agreed to go, “unless my husband objects.” DH and I talked about it, and I read about stuff (mostly on here, the Ask the Apologist section) and decided not to risk it. I emailed her and told her that I would be going to the (indult) Mass, instead. I told her that I had concerns and schism and stuff and would just prefer not to go.
By the time she responded - very friendly - I’d already attended the Mass and had a very positive experience. I told her that we would probably be going as a family, but also attending the NO Mass locally on other days. She wrote back saying she was glad I enjoyed the Mass, but was very surprised that I’d even want to attend a NO Mass at all. She said that, while it’s valid, it would be like buying a cut of meat because the butcher said it wouldn’t poison me, rather than because it was delicious. She also gave reasons why I shouldn’t worry about SSPX and said she wanted to meet and said “I won’t try to convince you to attend SSPX.”
So, I agreed to meet her. I called her last night to set up a time. We had the weirdest conversation. I think I was making her angry because I just kept insisting that I think it makes more sense to go to the indult Mass (which is less than two miles from the SSPX, at the exact same time) because it’s better to be obedient. She went so far as to start almost yelling about the problems she has with the priest who says the Mass at Sacred Heart. She said that he’s just another NO priest who recites the Latin Mass and that he has no reverence for the Eucharist. (Apparently, he once participated in an ecumenical prayer service where people said and did things she didn’t like and, along with a group of forty priests, he didn’t publically object.) She agreed that he doesn’t say anything heretical in his homilies, but the homilies at SSPX are just so much better and so you get “the whole package.”
I just kept saying that I think it’s better to attend the licit Mass and that, honestly, I’d rather attend a NO Mass than support disobedience. I also told her that I’m not comfortable with some of the rebellious element that are attracted to the SSPX - referencing an article on her own web site that deplored how a lot of SSPX leaders are rejecting Pope Benedict XVI’s revised prayer for the conversion of Jews.
She got irate. She went on and on, telling me all the sins and faults of the Archbishop and his predecessor. I found this upsetting, I guess. I kept saying that obedience was always pleasing to God and that if the bishops are wrong, they’ll take the rap. She said that she was hurt and surprised to hear me say that I’m going to give tacit consent to the schism she says the mainstream bishops are in.
In short, it was a conversation very much like the debates and arguments you see on here… only, at the end of it, she was still insistent that we meet for coffee this Saturday afternoon.
I am not expecting this to be a friendly get-together, after all. I’ve been in situations, before, when someone has been really keen to meet up with me even though we obviously aren’t hitting it off personally… when that person was trying to sell me Amway or talk me into going to their particular evangelical church. In other words, I feel like she wants to recruit me.
Why do you suppose that is? What do you think she wants?! Obviously, none of you can be expected to know that. I suppose I could go, myself, to find out what she wants. I fully expect her to show up with plenty of printed material for me to read.
I think she thought, when I first called her, that I was a total naive lamb who, annoyed with her parish priest over a trifling matter and professing homesickness for the thriving orthodox Catholic community she had back home, was in need of direction.It just seems very odd to me… I’m attending a TLM at a diocesan parish. She even said, herself, that the pastor there is “one of the best priests in Glasgow.” (A visiting priest says the Latin Mass.) It’s a parish that desperately needs members. It’s beautiful and old and very historic (Celtic FC was born in this parish). It’s also shabby and crumbling and the pastor is so prayerfully fighting to keep it together, while around him the neighborhood Protestants stage frequent Orange Marches, vandalize the building, and verbally harrass him. Una Voce Scotland supports this parish and I met some lovely people there.
Why are people choosing to go to the SSPX chapel, two miles away, at the same time? They’re not a parish community. They don’t even have a proper pastor. Priests from England drive up on weekends and scoot around Scotland, dispensing Masses.
This all confuses and saddens me. Meanwhile, I’m not sure if I should cancel this coffee meeting with this woman. I have a bad feeling about it.
Sad but true. This happened in the beginning of the Church…the Pope and approx. 80% of the Bishops supported the Arian heresy…the Church didn’t fall then, and the Church won’t fall now.
) is that there’s debate on whether or not he truly supported the heresy, or if he just went along with it because he was weak/under duress. Pope Honorius was excommunicated for simply *tolerating *heresy. I have to go to bed pretty quick, but I will look for some links…most of my information comes from books, so it’s sometimes hard to find the reference online (especially when I can’t remember which book:blush
.