What do you think about clairvoyance?

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Frequent_Flyer said:
Case in point, we’ve all heard about local psychics calling the police and telling them where to find the missing body. For example, the psychic may claim the police need to look by some water or some other obscure location. Then, surprise, surprise, the victim’s body is found by the nearby lake. If the psychic really does have genuine powers, then I suspect his/her powers to be demonic in origin. Why, you may ask? Well, why didn’t the psychic call the victim or the police an hour or more before the attack?

If this psychic were from God then why wasn’t the crime prevented? Solving a horrible crime through psychic phenomena is generally demonic (I am not saying there can’t be exceptions) because the devil wins two times. First, (in this case anyway) the sin of murder is committed. Second, as a result, more people will come to believe in powers of occult magic and may exchange their love and worship of God for the “cool” powers of the psychic. Assuming the purported psychic’s powers are demonic in origin, then the devil can tantalize and tempt everyone who hears the story and wonders.
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Welcome to CAF!

Supposing the findings of the bodies are not coincidental, I don’t agree that it has to be demonic. Why didn’t the “psychic” prevent the crime?

First of all, just because someone is psychic, doesn’t mean they know everything that is going on. They may pick up things here and there. There may be just image flashes, there may be dreams. Murders happen all the time. Someone with psychic ability is not omniscient.

Secondly, if a psychis is asked to focus on a particular crime and somehow becomes aware of a location of a body. That is a good thing because it brings closure to the family.
 
This is a 5 year old thread. It should not be resurrected. We had a notice from the moderators recently about old threads. Basically, start a new one.
 
It is necessary to make question about Catholic Church position concerning weak and slight-expressed clairvoyance which in its turn developed by person’s mind itself by using psychometry and psychurgy exercises (e.g. concetrated looking in the details of “image”) which are being made in person’s closed eyes etc. )
 
Catechism of the Catholic Church :

2116 All forms of* divination *are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c1a1.htm#2116

(and this is an OLD thread and we are not to bring them back from the dead …nor “conjure” them up 😉
 
I think parapsychology involves genuine natural powers.
Furthermore, people can have help from God knowing things. I expect that most Catholics know this. Such help is a grace from God. Padre Pio for example knew the past of people who came to him for confession, people he didn’t know.
But comunicating with the dead? Catholic exorcists say that when someone does this, they are actually speaking with demons.
This is where what Catholics call discernment comes in. Situations can occur when it is necessary for us to decide if something comes from God, from ourselves, or from demons.
Satan is more intelligent than us and can otherwise know things we don’t know, and so people involved with the occult can learn unknown things from demons. But it is better even then not to become involved with them, because Satan acts with us only for our harm.
 
lizaanne said:
I’m not talking about someone who deals in the occult or speaks to the dead, or anything else we know is forbidden for us Catholics.

But what about those people who seem to have an ability to solve crimes, knowing details about crimes that have never been revealed, and assisting police in solving unsolved mysteries? I don’t think we can just deny that this takes place, it has been documented quite thoroughly that there are individuals who do have the ability to “know” things that normal people are not aware of.

Could this be a gift of the Holy Spirit?

I don’t know, but it’s something that came to me when watching an interview with a woman who has helped police solve many crimes (she was on Oprah recently). This particular woman does do things I take issue with such as “speaking with the dead”, but the topic in general got me thinking, so I thought I’d throw it out there to see what others think about it.

~Liza
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Frankly. I do not believe there is such a thing as a genuine clairvoyant. They are all fakes. Some might really think they are clairvoyant and not setting out to deceive while others are frauds. Those who help police do their homework first and then with the normal random stuff that anyone could guess or work out say they helped the police solve a case.
Not a gift of the Holy Spirit.
 
lizaanne said:
I’m not talking about someone who deals in the occult or I don’t think we can just deny that this takes place, it has been documented quite thoroughly that there are individuals who do have the ability to “know” things that normal people are not aware of.

Could this be a gift of the Holy Spirit?

well i believe john paul jackson has a good teaching on this – that addresses – this common question-- in the application of hearing from the spiritual relm

The Mystery of Prophets & Psychics

youtu.be/nb1u1ju0ROU

When asked, most Christians would say they believe the Bible.

But when probed further, and asked specifically about the wild, supernatural events that took place throughout the Old and New Testaments—those things—can they be taken literally.

That’s usually when the words symbolism, or allegory, or metaphorical get thrown around to avoid having to actually say ‘that’s too strange to be true.’

Did the Red Sea really part to allow the Jews to escape the Egyptians? Did one angel really strike down armies of men? Did Jesus really walk on water, turn water into wine, be born of a virgin, feed 5000 with a just few baskets of food…did those things really happen?

Or were they just metaphors?

Backed into a corner with the reality that the Bible actually says these things happened, some Christians prefer to draw a line in the sand and say that was then, in Bible times, and this is now. T

oday things are different. We live in a different world. God doesn’t need to use supernatural exploits to accomplish His plan—it’s already been accomplished. Jesus put an end to all of that craziness. God no longer needs to speak to us through a dream we have at night, or show us things in a vision, or send angels to help us, protect us, or deliver important instructions.

Those things ended long ago.

And it’s a good thing too, because those things are messy and hard to explain. Mysteries are for Hollywood.
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The astrologers knew when and where Jesus was going to be born. So go figure.
 
MarieVeronica said:
The definition of clairvoyance is… “the power of seeing in the mind events that are in the future or out of sight”.

Doesn’t this sound a little bit like fortune telling? Or am I misunderstanding. Because fortune telling (and the like) is a violation of the First Commandment.🤷
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Maybe, but just the fact that we are warned about taking part in such things, proves that such things are possible and proves some people do have this ability.

Seems kind of strange to me that God would bless someone with such an ability, and then tell them its sinful to use it…??? why would God even endow someone with the gift in the first place then?
 
I knew this thread would be resurrected ;). I saw it coming :D.

My great, great grandfather on the Protestant side of my family apparently thought he was clairvoyant. From his 1912 obituary:

“Some fifteen years ago or more, he gained a knowledge of spirit communion and for several years he has been a member of the Progressive Spiritual Association. Being somewhat clairvoyant, he quite often saw his friends and acquaintances from beyond the great divide, and this has been a great comfort to him in his declining years.”

I am skeptical of such a claim, and it goes against my Catholic sensibilities and experience. I was actually rather amused when I found the obit, but he is my forefather. Could be he was just going senile, but who knows?
 
christofirst said:
I knew this thread would be resurrected ;). I saw it coming :D.

My great, great grandfather on the Protestant side of my family apparently thought he was clairvoyant. From his 1912 obituary:

“Some fifteen years ago or more, he gained a knowledge of spirit communion and for several years he has been a member of the Progressive Spiritual Association. Being somewhat clairvoyant, he quite often saw his friends and acquaintances from beyond the great divide, and this has been a great comfort to him in his declining years.”

I am skeptical of such a claim, and it goes against my Catholic sensibilities and experience. I was actually rather amused when I found the obit, but he is my forefather. Could be he was just going senile, but who knows?
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Im curious why are skeptical…If God felt the need to warn us against doing such things, doesnt it make logical sense that people COULD do these things?

If no one had this ability, then there would be no need to warn us about practicing it.
 
Pat_Albertson said:
Often, people claiming to know the future claim to know this by virtue of conversations with the spirits of the dearly departed. Usually, their knowledge of the dearly departed comes from adroitly pumping the living for information:

  1. *]Cold reading
    *]Cold Reading: Confessions of a psychic
    *]Guide to Cold Reading
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  1. I’ve had this shtick worked on me a time or two by religious types, claiming God had moved them to speak with me frankly. They used exactly these techniques. I was familiar with the process and enjoyed running them in circles a little bit. Watching them scramble to recover.

    These are nothing more than modified sales techniques. Make like you know the customer better than they know themselves and convince them they need what you’re selling.
 
mikekle said:
Im curious why are skeptical…If God felt the need to warn us against doing such things, doesnt it make logical sense that people COULD do these things?

If no one had this ability, then there would be no need to warn us about practicing it.
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For a serious look at clairvoyance (which my first post was not), I think we would need to differentiate whether this is a God-given ability, or if it is always enabled through the occult in some way. I have always thought the Church’s warning dealt more with the occult aspect, such as purposefully conjuring spirits, fortune telling, and the like.

I’m skeptical because truly demonstrable clairvoyance is outside the realm of my own experience, and because the claim of clairvoyance has too often been associated with charlatans. If I actually knew someone with such abilities, as some of us here apparently have, I’m sure I would be more open to such possibilities. As it is, I’m more like a Doubting Thomas.

In the case of my 2nd great grandfather, he just happened to acquire his special abilities around the end of the 19th century, when the Progressive Spiritualist Movement coincidentally swept through parts of this nation. Now that this fad is no longer in vogue, it seems to me we don’t see nearly as many clairvoyant people as we apparently did back then. But to be honest, I really don’t think about clairvoyance all that much.
 
Catechism of the Catholic Church :

2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c1a1.htm#2116

(and this is an OLD thread and we are not to bring them back from the dead …nor “conjure” them up ;))
 
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