What do you think about guitars during mass?

[zab]

We are fortunate to have three good choirs that are different. The men’s choir sings more traditional hymns and Gregorian chant. They are accompanied by the organ when singing hymns. The girls choir is probably the best choir and they are accompanied by the piano as well as the organ. They sing both traditional hymns and some contemporary but it is all very nice. Then there is the main choir with both men and women members. And they sing both traditional and contemporary hymns or songs. I prefer the traditional hymns. I do not feel like singing along to some of the contemporary songs. We also have a woman (who now directs the men’s choir since the former director is having some health issues) who is very musically talented and she plays the guitar. She has sung for some funerals. She is of Irish descent and her singing is melodius and beautiful as well as her guitar playing with some plucking not just loud strumming. But we do not usually have guitar playing at Mass every week like we did during the 70’s and 80’s.

 

[ibkc]

There is one guitar mass at the OF parish we attend half-time. It’s by far the least well-attended of all the parish’s masses, and has the most anemic congregational singing.

Our new pastor is about to re-institute Life Teen, though, so that may change.

 

[4EverHis]

I prefer the organ at Mass… not guitars.

I love guitar outside of Mass…I’m even learning how to play it.
But I prefer traditional music for worship.

if there’s no organ, piano would be second choice… or just the choir, without any instruments (if they sing well )

 

[kimbaichan]

All well and good but I’ve been a member of about 12 different parishes in the last 34 years and in most there were no organists to be found.

I play the piano, but as mom pointed out I can’t complain unless I’m willing to do something about it, so I’d like to find a teacher for the organ. Wonder if the Baptist church would let me in to take a few lessons?

 

[bpbasilphx]

Speaking as a trained organist with a Master’s degree in music, I have no objection to guitars (which existed before rock and roll), or any instrument, when played well.

But as long as most Catholic parishes are content with spinet organs played by left-footed old ladies with mittens on, or people think that the ability to strum three chords and move a capo makes one a liturgical guitarist, so long will the music in the average Latin parish be mediocre to terrible, which was about its level in the past apparently.

 

[4elise]

From what I can find - organs weren’t used till 660 AD —

I love that today there are a variety of music styles at a parish - a more traditional organ with choir, an upbeat guitar youth Mass — and everything in between! Sure sometimes the quality of the music may leave something to be desired but it isn’t supposed to be a concert but prayer - so what works for some, doesn’t for others, most of us have a choice which Mass to attend - SO - lets all make a joyful noise to the Lord!

 

[bpbasilphx]

Example:
Jesu, Joy of Man’s Desiring
youtube.com/watch?v=cGzZuHmEOeE

All Creatures of Our God and King (I’m not familiar with the second hymn - I don’t think it’s a Catholic hymn)
youtube.com/watch?v=lutWU…eature=related

Ave Maria - Bach/Gounod (guitar and solo voice)
youtube.com/watch?v=E0o9k…eature=related

---

**Did you know that Bach was not a Catholic?

Furthermore, the hymn tune Lasst uns erfreuen (sung to All creatures… usually), aka, Vigiles et sancti, is not Catholic either?**

 

[Gertabelle]

I am a big fan of the organ. I feel this is a very good way to celebrate the mass. I wish the organist at my Church would play it more instead of the piano.

I’ve been playing the piano for 30 years now, and I play for one of the masses every week. What most people don’t realize is that the organ is not just some big electric piano. I can no more play the organ for mass than I could play the cello. It takes me about a month to work up two Christmas songs (O Come All Ye Faithful and Joy to the World) on the organ, and although I have been trying for some 20 years, I have yet to be able to play Jesus Christ is Risen Today Your parish may actually have an “organist,” but please don’t assume that someone who can play the organ once or twice a year is actually an organist.

Could anyone see these instruments as dangerous?

Any instrument can be dangerous in the right hands.

I play the piano, but as mom pointed out I can’t complain unless I’m willing to do something about it, so I’d like to find a teacher for the organ. Wonder if the Baptist church would let me in to take a few lessons?

I am in the middle of my doctoral dissertation, but I have been practicing my “basics” on piano with the intention of studying the organ when I’m Doctor Gertie, EdD. Fortunately, I live within driving distance of several major universities, so I hope to be able to find a good teacher.

Gertie

 

[Sarabande]

Example:
Jesu, Joy of Man’s Desiring
youtube.com/watch?v=cGzZuHmEOeE

All Creatures of Our God and King (I’m not familiar with the second hymn - I don’t think it’s a Catholic hymn)
youtube.com/watch?v=lutWU…eature=related

Ave Maria - Bach/Gounod (guitar and solo voice)
youtube.com/watch?v=E0o9k…eature=related

---

**Did you know that Bach was not a Catholic?

Furthermore, the hymn tune Lasst uns erfreuen (sung to All creatures… usually), aka, Vigiles et sancti, is not Catholic either?**

Yes I did know that for both. Any classically-trained musician knows that about Bach. I’m a professional musician as well as you and have been studying music since I was 4 and did part of my training at the Mozarteum in Salzburg, so I do have to have knowledge of music history. I don’t claim to know everything about music, so I’m always open to learning more, but I do have a fairly good handle on music and history - especially in those two cases.

And what I meant for that second hymn is that I have never heard it at a Catholic mass, so I don’t associate it as a Catholic hymn at all. I was just trying to give examples of good execution of guitar rather than most of the garbage playing that I grew up hearing as a child at mass and even today at certain parishes. But I’m also not one of those who believe that all music at mass should have only been composed by Catholics. As long as it is appropriate, I’m not against it. For hymns, especially.

 

[Sarabande]

I play the piano, but as mom pointed out I can’t complain unless I’m willing to do something about it, so I’d like to find a teacher for the organ. Wonder if the Baptist church would let me in to take a few lessons?

If you are near a university or conservatory, you might be able to find a good organist to teach you there. Another option is to visit different churches and check out the organs and organists to see if they are worth training with. We have very organists in my city, many of which, give lessons. And today, many organists want to give lessons for the next generation. I have a friend who has his music degree from a conservatory in another instrument, but actually studied organ on the side with one of the professors at his conservatory. So he now play organ exclusively at two churches - one Protestant and one Catholic - as well as freelances.

 

[Sarabande]

From what I can find - organs weren’t used till 660 AD —

The article by Benedict XVI from this thread was very interesting and in part of it he spoke about the origin of the organ.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=360606

 

[Sarabande]

I’ve been playing the piano for 30 years now, and I play for one of the masses every week. What most people don’t realize is that the organ is not just some big electric piano. I can no more play the organ for mass than I could play the cello. It takes me about a month to work up two Christmas songs (O Come All Ye Faithful and Joy to the World) on the organ, and although I have been trying for some 20 years, I have yet to be able to play Jesus Christ is Risen Today Your parish may actually have an “organist,” but please don’t assume that someone who can play the organ once or twice a year is actually an organist.

Any instrument can be dangerous in the right hands.

I am in the middle of my doctoral dissertation, but I have been practicing my “basics” on piano with the intention of studying the organ when I’m Doctor Gertie, EdD. Fortunately, I live within driving distance of several major universities, so I hope to be able to find a good teacher.

Gertie

This is all so true - especially “Any instrument can be dangerous in the right hands.”

All the best in your doctorate!!! That is awesome!

 

[Sarah_Angel]

Why does it matter? Do guitars take away from the Real Presence of the Eucharist?

I mean, I know that sounds like a bit of an extreme remark, but I don’t think that it matters what instruments are used during Mass. Sometimes the guitar and piano can be very reverent if the people playing know how to play decently. Same goes for singing, really. Sometimes the canters at Mass can sound worse than any of their instruments.

I do understand that the instrument thing is a personal preference, but I have an appreciation for all instruments at Mass. My parish uses piano and guitar whereas others in my area use the organ, and all are fine as long as they’re used in a prayerful manner, which they usually are.

 

[Cat]

I think it’s interesting that anyone would think the piano is a “secular” instrument.

IMO, it all depends on your growing up.

I grew up in a Baptist church, and my immediate and extended family never, ever darkened the door of a nightclub, lounge, or bar. Ever. When my dad was a little older, he would go with friends to the local tap across the street from his factory, but he didn’t drink, and the bartender gave him free dinner and soft drinks to make sure that his pals made it home safely. No live music in that tap–it was a working man’s watering hole.

We also didn’t go to a lot of shows or movies, although we watched them on TV. I remember watching Hollywood Palace and Lawrence Welk.

My point is, to me, the piano was a CHURCH instrument, and the secular musicians borrowed it from church, not the other way around.

And as I pointed out earlier, according the Sacrosanctum Concilium, other instruments beside the pipe organ can be used during Mass if certain conditions are met. Other that expressing our personal preferences, which is fine, I see no reason to question the reverence or efficacy of Masses that use guitar, piano, or any other instrument.

 

[benedictgal]

I think it’s interesting that anyone would think the piano is a “secular” instrument.

IMO, it all depends on your growing up.

I grew up in a Baptist church, and my immediate and extended family never, ever darkened the door of a nightclub, lounge, or bar. Ever. When my dad was a little older, he would go with friends to the local tap across the street from his factory, but he didn’t drink, and the bartender gave him free dinner and soft drinks to make sure that his pals made it home safely. No live music in that tap–it was a working man’s watering hole.

We also didn’t go to a lot of shows or movies, although we watched them on TV. I remember watching Hollywood Palace and Lawrence Welk.

My point is, to me, the piano was a CHURCH instrument, and the secular musicians borrowed it from church, not the other way around.

And as I pointed out earlier, according the Sacrosanctum Concilium, other instruments beside the pipe organ can be used during Mass if certain conditions are met. Other that expressing our personal preferences, which is fine, I see no reason to question the reverence or efficacy of Masses that use guitar, piano, or any other instrument.

Actually, Musicam Sacram, the authoritative document of the Holy See that specifically treats the issue of Sacred Music, notes that:

1. Musical instruments can be very useful in sacred celebrations, whether they accompany the singing or whether they are played as solo instruments.
   "The pipe organ is to be held in high esteem in the Latin Church, since it is its traditional instrument, the sound of which can add a wonderful splendor to the Church’s ceremonies and powerfully lift up men’s minds to God and higher things.

"The use of other instruments may also be admitted in divine worship, given the decision and consent of the competent territorial authority, provided that the instruments are suitable for sacred use, or can be adapted to it, that they are in keeping with the dignity of the temple, and truly contribute to the edification of the faithful."43

1. In permitting and using musical instruments, the culture and traditions of individual peoples must be taken into account. However, those instruments which are, by common opinion and use, suitable for secular music only, are to be altogether prohibited from every liturgical celebration and from popular devotions.44

Thus, it is not necessarily an “anything goes” attitude that we should have. In this case, then, electric guitars, bass guitars and drum kits really have no place in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass since they are suitable for secular music only.

You say that the piano was a church instrument; however, while it may have been predominantly used in Protestant ecclesial communities, it was not so with the Church up until Musicam Sacram was promulgated, which was in the 1960s. Up until that time, the instrument for use in the Church was the organ. This was for several centuries. In fact, the organ still maintains pride of place in the Church.

 

[Cat]

Actually, Musicam Sacram, the authoritative document of the Holy See that specifically treats the issue of Sacred Music, notes that:

Thus, it is not necessarily an “anything goes” attitude that we should have. In this case, then, electric guitars, bass guitars and drum kits really have no place in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass since they are suitable for secular music only.

You say that the piano was a church instrument; however, while it may have been predominantly used in Protestant ecclesial communities, it was not so with the Church up until Musicam Sacram was promulgated, which was in the 1960s. Up until that time, the instrument for use in the Church was the organ. This was for several centuries. In fact, the organ still maintains pride of place in the Church.

Yes, and if the current trend in dying-out organists continues, the organ will have pride of place in many Catholics churches–as a silent “statue” of something that is no longer on this earth. We will all gaze at it in awe and whisper, “I heard those played a long time ago. All the organists died, and there was no one to replace them, and that was the end of organ music in the Mass.”

benedictgal, I have no objection to pipe organ music. I love it and if I had my way, all of life would be accompanied by a massive pipe organ. There’s a beautiful passage in one of the James Herriot books (the veterinarian) about the first time he ever used penicillin–as he watched the animal recover miraculously within 24 hours, in his mind, he heard the pipe organ joyously playing all stops out. (I work in microbiology, so this passage is especially meaningful to me.)

But if there’s no one to play the pipe organ, then it’s pointless to insist that the Mass be accompanied by pipe organ music, unless ghosts really can play.

Acapella Mass is certainly an option, but as I pointed out in another post, there is no reason to insist on acapella Mass when the documents make it clear that other instruments may be used at the discretion of the bishops. Thank God for a sensible Church!

I disagree with you that electric guitars, etc. are suitable for secular music only. That’s a matter of personal opinion. But that’s also another thread. And frankly, I think that there are very few people who excel in playing electric guitars, drums, etc., probably even less than play piano or organ, and those who do play well are playing in professional bands for money, not at Mass for free. (Guitar Hero doesn’t count!) So I think it’s unlikely that we’ll see an influx of rock musicians into the Mass anytime soon.

I certainly think that an acoustic guitar can be used for Mass (if the bishop approves). A lot of guitarists are not used to accompanying congregational singing, but I think that as they gain more experience, they can improve at this.

 

[Ockham]

What do you think about pianos, guitars, and etc. in place of the organ?

The Church instructs us to use the organ.

 

[ibkc]

My point is, to me, the piano was a CHURCH instrument, and the secular musicians borrowed it from church, not the other way around.

While that may be how it is to you, I feel the need to point out that the Catholic Church predates you, the Baptist church, *and *the invention of the piano by many, many years. In that context, which is the only context that matters in a discussion about instruments used for Catholic liturgical purposes, the piano is a secular instrument and a relatively recent innovation. What is and should be acceptable for Baptists is a completely different discussion.

 

[ledwith]

Guitar’s are fine,as are all musical instrument’s in the right hands.I do appreciate music at mass.It helps me in my worship.however there have been times where i would have much preffered silence and leave all to the priest.
the instruments are not the problem,It is the application and i think when the holy spirit is working through the musician it is something beautiful.
the biggest problem arises where the guitarist.or organist for that matter showboat or just plainly dont have the spirit for this ministry.:

 

[EasterJoy]

The answer has so much to do with which organ we’re talking about (many of them should just have a bullet put into their brains and have it over with) or the guitar, what musicians are available, what kind of singers are in the choir and congregation, and what the acoustics of the church are like. There aren’t many churches with a well-maintained pipe organ in them anymore. Those deserve to have the parish pay someone qualified to play them, and that includes the ones blessed with someone willing to do it for free. Electronic organs vary wildly in quality, but most I’ve heard are not good, to be charitable. A few of these have a magician playing them that can make them sound good when nobody else can. The Lord is generous in mysterious ways.

I like whatever instruments a) aren’t painful b) people will sing with and c) don’t sound like a station you want to switch away from when they do. Of course, you want something that transports you, but the truth is that managing to avoid out-and-out penance is the highest good in too many cases.