That is very clear; I’m sorry I misunderstood you. That said, you need to understand what we’ve been saying. I’m not asking you to believe me because I said something on the forum. I’m asking you to read the documents that the Vatican has issued and see for yourself. I’m asking you to understand that a motu proprio from 1903 that has never been abrogated is still, therefore, in full effect. I’m asking you to understand that being faithful to the church is a matter of being faithful to its source: Jesus, and to his vicar on earth, the pope. I’m not asking anyone to be disobedient to their priest or their bishop, even if these authorities accept things that the Church Universal does not. Obedience is a virtue at all levels. That said, no matter how many priests decide to allow guitars or other secular instruments in church, that will not make it correct. Plenty of priests in my diocese are vastly out of line with the rubrics of the mass and change things ad hoc. The bishop does not correct them. That doesn’t make this practice correct. I certainly wouldn’t walk up to them and start a fight, or try to correct them mid-service, but I have written letters reminding the clergy of the obligation to follow the rubrics with quotes from the GIRM and such. Strictly speaking, it doesn’t even matter how many bishops are okay with guitars, pianos, kazoos, or banjos, unless and until they gather together at an ecumenical council to change the standard ruling on the matter. The bishops and priests do not have the right to be disobedient to the papacy. My suspicion, however, is that they are mostly just uninformed and mean to do the right thing, but don’t always know all the rules. They’ve got so much on their plates sometimes, especially in the US where we don’t have enough priests. Sometimes it is best to bring the documents to their attention. The average priest may not have read them; I don’t know how much music they teach in seminary school.
Referring to boldface above.
FrancisB and benedictgal, when I was evangelical Protestant, I read, studied, and drew conclusions
myself.
This is the hallmark of evangelical Protestantism, especially Baptist evangelical Protestantism–reading, studying, and drawing conclusions ourselves.
Pardon me–not by ourselves, but with the help of the Holy Spirit. Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth, and so someone who reads and studies can be fully assured that the Holy Spirit will help them to draw the correct conclusions.
When I was evangelical Protestant, I was a diligent reader. I studied much, and arrived at my own conclusions by myself.
And my conclusions were dead wrong, even relying on the Holy Spirit
FrancisB and benedictgal, perhaps it’s OK for Catholics to do what you are saying, to read and study Church documents and draw conclusions that are contrary to what most of the bishops teach or practice, and to state that the bishops are wrong and you are right.
But don’t think it’s a wise plan for ex-evangelical Protestants to return to a practice that caused them to utterly miss God’s plan.
We who are ex-evangelicals, for the most part, will and should flee ANYTHING that gives the appearance of setting ourselves up as an authority. We’ve been there, done that, and nearly died spiritually.
Certainly we can study and learn, but we allow our Church to draw the conclusions, not us.
For us, authority issues are of top importance. I’m not sure that Catholics can understand this. But it’s the truth.
The Catholic Church assigns men as bishops. These men are modern-day apostles, and it is my duty as a Catholic to obey them as I obey Jesus. That’s how I see it as an ex-evangelical.
I do not obey “documents” because it is through the Catholic Church, which is a Church of men, that the documents make any sense at all. I can’t read “the documents” and draw my own conclusions. There are many intelligent evangelical Protestants who read and study Catholic documents and draw utterly ridiculous conclusions about the Catholic Church from their self-study. I shudder to think what my conclusions would be if I didn’t have the Church to tell me!
As I’ve said many times, I HAVE read several of the musical documents that benedictgal references, and I came to completely different conclusions than benedictgal!
FrancisB and benedictgal, it makes no sense to me that the men who are given special charisms by the Holy Spirit, God Himself, to be able to serve as Bishops, and who have received a thorough education in seminary and in their daily service in the Church–it makes no sense to me that a large number, a fraternity, so to speak, of these august and honorable and intelligent, godly men are “wrong” about the use of instruments in the Church, and two people on an online forum are “right.”
You two are actually pitting yourself against the very upper echelons of Church leadership in this thread, and declaring that they are propagating “error” in the Mass!
I humbly suggest that it is not the bishops and the Pope who are incorrect in their interpretation and practice of allowing pianos and guitars in OF Masses, but it is YOU who have drawn incorrect conclusions from your self-study of the documents.
The bishops have the advantage over you of CONTEXT. They not only study all the documents regarding music, but they study ALL the documents and writings of the Church (at least as many as a mortal man can study in one lifetime), and also serve on the front lines in the Church as priests ministering to real people in every country in the world.
Bottom line: I think they know more than you. And even if they don’t, they’re in charge.
I hope yet to hear from my Bishop. But in the meantime, I would suggest that you avoid asking ex-evangelicals to read and study and draw their own conclusions. It’s not a good thing for them to do. It’s like telling an alcoholic to just have a little drink.
) But to my mind, writing text specifically intended for music is not a problem if it is good and theologically sound. I am unsure why more people still don’t take texts from other sources these days.
You are Loved!
