What Do You Think About Juan's Tilma Anyways?

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Today is the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe. The deacon at mass said the paint on the tilma floated on the canvas and the material that composes the “paint” is of unknown origin. Is this true? What do you think about that?

(Any other slightly off-topic interjections may be posited on the topic of the Virgin of Guadalupe if you wish.)
 
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I have read that from multiple sources. I have also read (and seen) that when one magniie Our Mother’s eyes, one can see the microscopic figures of three men who appel to be kneeling, and the case (Which I agree with) has been made that these are the Three Wise Men. I coud go on about the mulitude of Aztec symbols contained within the Tilma, and the astronomical breakdown of the tilma. All utterly astonishing an very, very fascinating.
 
Well, you can look up the studies carried out by NASA and multiple other labs from multiple countries that have been carried out on the tilma throughout the years as well as the multiple microscopic imahes of the corneas of Our Lady’s eyes. The arrangement of the stars and the flowers on the tilma are also a matter of study since the starts match the constellations on of the date in which St. Juan Diego presented the tilma to the bishop and the flowers are geographically placed to match the major mountains and volcanos around Mexico City. The tile in outlet Lady’s head also matches a coordination of some kind, but I can’t remember at the moment. The tilma was made from cactus fiber, and the material doesn’t last more than a couple years before breaking down. The durability of the tilma is also a matter of study since it’s been around since 1531, it went through an acid spill that left a permanent stain on it but without damage, survived having been exposed to the elements , candle smoke, a terrorist attack with a bomb, and the fact that for the first few decades people would tipo out little fibers to take home with them since it was not protected. It’s really interesting to read on everything, not just scientific but on the symbolism. When you read about what the colors, the positions, the objects on the tilma meant to the Aztec people it becomes clear that Our Lady was truly trying to evangelize in a very personal way to them. It’s absolutely beautiful, and the fact that’s science is so involved makes me very happy. Our God is not just incredibly intelligent, but deeply compassionate and Our Lady of Guadalupe testified to both. Read on it, research, watch documentaries 🙂
 
What is the tilma?

Sorry if it’s an obvious question and something I should know, but I don’t.
 
The tilma is the cape that they wore back them. Not sure if cape is the right word. It’s a piece of clothing.
 
It was more like modern day “gabán”, but the Aztecs and other indigenous people of the time used it to carry crops from their harves in 🙂
 
You need to look at the skeptics skeptically also. A red flag came up when he questioned the age of the tilma saying:
Here are the facts: the ayate does not come from native cactus plants, but is of woven hemp,
Click to expand...
Actually, that’s not a fact. Hemp comes from the hemp plant. Marijuana is related to the hemp plant.

Image result for what is hemp fiber made from
The bast fibers can be used to make textiles that are 100% hemp, but they are commonly blended with other organic fibers such as flax, cotton or silk, to make woven fabrics for apparel and furnishings.
Hemp - Wikipedia


Ayate comes from maguey. The maguey has traditionally been classed as a cactus by laymen. But it is technically, not. It is in the same class though. Maguey and cactus are both “succulents”. Hemp, is not.

The Miracle of Maguey | Eat Your World Blog


Jan 10, 2013 - The maguey cactus, native to Mexico, is best known for its place in alcohol, specifically tequila, but it’s also eaten in a variety of ways, used to make fabric and clothes, and taken for medicinal purposes. Not a looker, this giant, spike- covered plant somehow made its way from desert cactus to unexpected star …

(Mexico) A cloth made from the fiber of the maguey plant, similar to henequen or sisal. (historical) A cloak-like garment made from this cloth.
ayate - Wiktionary
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ayate
from the plant agave fourcroydes native to Mexico.
Click to expand...
Yep. They got this part right. The agave, a succulent plant which closely resembles cactus. Not a hemp plant.
This could explain the Tilma’s remarkable state of preservation. Hempen cloth can last hundreds of years. It is one of the strongest fibers known.
Click to expand...
Well, if that’s true, why aren’t there more tilma’s laying around?

Considering that everyone agrees that St. Juan Diego was not a wealthy man. I’m thinking that he was wearing something made of the cheapest material that could be found. Therefore, I’m pretty certain all the people of his village were wearing something similar.

I mean, a fiber that is cheap and ordinarily lasts 500 years! We should be making everything out of that stuff, even today. Why are we using cotton or anything else?

So, I’d fact check that entire article. Although, some of the other things he said sounded reasonable. This particular point makes him sound like he’s got an axe to grind.
 
The only icon of a Marian apparition that was crafted by Mary herself. The image itself is part of her whole miraculous events. Six million conversions in just a few years more than offset Luther’s shenanigans a few decades prior.
 
Another theory about the reflections visible in her eyes, is that the reflections are of those that were present in Bishop Zumarraga’s office when Juan Diego first unfolded the tilma.
 
Talking about the durability of maguey-fiber clothing or items is not any slight on the tilma!

If you go to art or archaeology museums, you will see that some very ordinary items can potentially last for not just hundreds of years, but thousands of years. It takes some odd conditions or a lot of care, but yes, there are fabrics from Charlemagne’s time, shoes from Roman times, and so on.

OTOH, there are some fibers or combinations of fibers which basically start disintegrating within ten or twenty years, and which don’t hold up to wear. If you had clothing made from those that was lasting hundreds of years, that would really make someone blink!

So yes, it’s interesting that the tilma would last X many years, because it’s basically a utility garment like a pair of jeans. But there are completely secular examples of tough utility cloths, like denim or hempen cloth, being able to survive hundreds of years. (And the reason that doesn’t happen more often is that denim usually got worn into holes, and then thrown away or turned into cleaning rags or patches. That’s probably what happened to most people’s maguey-fiber tilmas, too.)

What’s amazing that there’s a miraculous image on the cloth that is basically grown right out of the cloth. It’s dumbfounding that the tilma and its image would survive Spanish painters, damp conditions, nitric acid spills, bombs, etc. And of course, anything touched by Mary herself is an amazing relic, even if there weren’t any image on it!

I’d also say it’s very important to understand the distinction between the actual miraculous image and the stuff that got added on by various painters and retouchers, just as it would be important to understand what part of a miraculous icon is the icon, and what part is just its elaborate jeweled case and frame (what is sometimes called its “clothing”).

(And yeah… only humans would want to “help out” a miraculous image by adding paint to it… but I’m sure Mary is proud and happy about the added “clothing,” just as any mom happy with drawings on the fridge and wilting wildflower bouquets.

Similarly, it’s a good idea to understand what is the miraculous true story, and what is the pious folklore swirling around it. We worship Christ, Who is not only the Way and the Life, but also the Truth. I don’t think the folklore is bad, and it talks about true things in a poetic way; but it isn’t true.
 
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Some of the things were painted on, I think. I need to read through the information again.

I like the eye part.

 
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