What do you think about the Orans Posture? Do you like it?

  • Thread starter Thread starter dumspirospero
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Annunciata:
Mysty,
We aren’t your 5th grade students… lighten up!
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Sorry, I won’t liighten up when it comes to ridicule of others.
 
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Annunciata:
That’s not nice…
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You’re right, it’s not nice, but it’s the sentiment I feel for her students, unless she uses a different approach than she does here.
 
Originally Posted by dumspirospero
*… During the Mass, the Orans posture by anyone other than the Priest is not in the Rubrics and therefore is a private gesture…and therefore in some cases conflicts with the gestures and signs the rubrics are supposed to protect…which is also a problem because the Mass is not a private ceremony. Even the Pope has stated that The Orans Posture has created confusion within the Mass…
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Annunciata:
Back on topic…
I think this already says it all…:yup:
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Not really. If we follow that line of reasoning, we can not use any prayer gesturers or even the sign of the Cross.

Fron the USCCB “Postures” bulletin
Gestures too involve our bodies in prayer. The most familiar of these is the Sign of the Cross with which we begin Mass and with which, in the form of a blessing, the Mass concludes. Because it was by his death on the cross that Christ redeemed humankind, we trace the sign of the cross on our foreheads, lips and hearts at the beginning of the Gospel. Fr. Romano Guardini, a scholar and professor of liturgy wrote of this gesture:
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When we cross ourselves, let it be with a real sign of the cross. Instead of a small, cramped gesture that gives no notion of its meaning, let us make a large, unhurried sign, from forehead to breast, from shoulder to shoulder, consciously feeling how it includes the whole of us, our thoughts, our attitudes, our body and soul, every part of us all at once, how it consecrates and sanctifies us … (Romano Guardini, Sacred Signs, 1927)
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But there are other gestures that intensify our prayer at Mass. During the Confiteor the action of striking our breasts at the words through my own fault can strengthen my awareness that my sin is my fault. In the Creed we are invited to bow at the words which commemorate the Incarnation: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary and became man. This gesture signifies our profound respect and gratitude to Christ who, though God, did not hesitate to come among us as a human being, sharing our human condition in order to save us from sin and restore us to friendship with God. This gratitude is expressed with even greater solemnity on the Feast of the Annunciation of the Lord and on Christmas when we genuflect at these words.
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None of these are in the GIRM

Bottom line is that if we cannot use the orans position, we also cannot fold our hands.
 
Swiss Guard said:
You’re right, it’s not nice, but it’s the sentiment I feel for her students, unless she uses a different approach than she does here.
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I’m sure she is a good and well meaning teacher. Now let’s get back on topic…
 
You are missing the point Mysty…there is no malice in that statement…and we are not denying Orans as a legitimate posture during prayer…however, we are denying its validity within the Mass by anyone other than the Priest…The use of the Orans Posture is strictly a private gesture and should not be used in the Mass, because the Mass is not a private function or prayer…folded hands in prayer is the norm which should be observed by everyone beside the Priest…I know you are a Charismatic and it is fine that you all do it at your Parishes…all I am saying is that this posture should be confined to Charismatic parishes. THis is not an approved or appropriate gesture to make according to the rubrics.
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Mysty101:
Do you want to get this thread closed? 'cause it probably will be if I answer you.

Do you care to rethink this irreverence toward a legitimate prayer posture?
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Friends,

I don’t know when folded hands or kneeling for that matter became so common in the West. I only know that Prayers with hands raised was the most common practice in the entire Church for at least the first five centuries. Technically Tertullian is not usually considered a Father of the Church except through his antiquity. His last years were devoted to Montanism which was later considered to be schismatic. Yet, Tertullian forms some of the thinking of the early Church and he was mostly respected.

Back to the point: Most of the early Christians prayed standing with hands raised. I think there is some touchiness over the modern Charismatic movement. Yet, whether or not one likes some of the things they do the real issue is whether or not raising hands in prayer is a genuine devout action. It most certainly is and I really wish people would quit fussing over it.

One more thing: Nicaea I commanded that standing is the proper posture for worship. Why did the West change that?

Now holding hands is quite a different thing.

Dan L
 
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dumspirospero:
You are missing the point Mysty…there is no malice in that statement…and we are not denying Orans as a legitimate posture during prayer…however, we are denying its validity within the Mass by anyone other than the Priest…The use of the Orans Posture is strictly a private gesture and should not be used in the Mass, because the Mass is not a private function…
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This would be a valid discussion without the childish ridicule. We all have an opinion, and I don’t think anyone uses any gesture that he feels is “looney” It is very immature and unkind (possibly even sinful) to ridicule someone’s prayer posture.
 
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Mysty101:
Not really. If we follow that line of reasoning, we can not use any prayer gesturers or even the sign of the Cross.

Fron the USCCB “Postures” bulletin

None of these are in the GIRM

Bottom line is that if we cannot use the orans position, we also cannot fold our hands.
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No comment on my apology?
BTW, this may be a first, but I agree with you. You make a good point here.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
This weekend there were four babies being baptized at our parish. This means lots of visitors.
In front of us was a man and his teenage son. At the Our Father, the man did the Football Catch. My five-year-old had never seen this before so she decided to try it.
I said to her, “Don’t do that. Fold your hands like a good girl!”
The man’s son suppressed a laugh and he put his hands down immediately.
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Now this definitely implies that if you use the orans posture you are a “bad” girl.

This is my point, but if I say that you said people who use the orans posture are bad, you would call me a liar—(yet again)
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Do you have the people who “scoop”?
I don’t even remember the point of the Holy Mass they do it. I think it’s when we respond, “…We lift them up to the Lord.”
I’m not really sure because we have the EWTN type Holy Mass. No one does any of those innovations.

If they do, they are visitors and stop when they see that they are the only one’s doing it.
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Oh, sure – we have the scoopers – complete with deep knee bends.

We also have readers who process the book of Gospels (the Evangeliary) as if they were carrying a surfboard overhead…
 
Pariah Pirana:
We also have readers who process the book of Gospels (the Evangeliary) as if they were carrying a surfboard overhead…
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LOL, what’s with that, anyways??? 😃 They do that at some churches I’ve attended.
 
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This thread is now closed. Thanks to all who participated in the discussion.
 
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