What do you think about the Orans Posture? Do you like it?

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axolotl:
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          Recitation of the “Our Father”:*

      

                                        During the “Our Father” (Lord’s Prayer) people **may** raise their hands. This is not, as some suggest, an attempt to mimic those from the Evangelical or Pentecostal Churches. It is an attempt to recover an ancient gesture of the Church seen in the catacombs, but most importantly, it is an imitation of how Christ prayed in life and in death, says Tertullian, a Father of the Church. People may also continue to fold their hands at their hearts. Neither of these gestures is mandated by GIRM. They are pastoral suggestion from Tradition.
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What in the world is “a Father of the Church”?
Isn’t it the priest, not the laity that are suppose to imitate Christ?

Most times I am very sad about leaving home. Right now, I’m glad I moved out of Cleveland.
 
Yeah…and all the Church’s used to be inside Catacombs…does that mean we need to tear down all our churches and put them inside the catacombs?
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GregoryPalamas:
The orans posture was quite common in the ancient Church. Why should it not be so today. “Lift up holy hands” was not simply an encouragement to priests but to all Chrisitans. It is still quite appropriate in the East. Some of us do it at our Church.

Dan L
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No I don’t like it… I think Tantum Ergo hit it right on the money…😉
NOthing was, or is, wrong with the “folded hands”. . .but the whole em-PHASIS of a huge proportion of “liturgy” of the 70s-90s was the “priesthood” of the laity. So we got “copycat” Orans, the whole congregation singing the Doxology “Through him, with him, in him. . .”, all the “kiddies” invited to “stand up on the altar” for the consecration, invited to join in the Eucharist prayer etc. We were ALL priests, right? The Mass was OUR Mass, right?
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I was not a Catholic in the 70s, 80s, or 90s. Nor do I appreciate the snide remarks about the catacombs. The icons of people are prayer show mostly not people kneeling or folding hands. Since my graduate work was in Patristic studies I do believe I know what I’m talking about when I say the ancient church tended more often than not to pray with hands raised.

Please give the sarcasm a rest. If people choose to pray with hands folded it is their privilege. If persons choose to pray with hands raised it is their privilege.

Dan L
 
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WhiteDove:
This lady has a more vigorous pose…
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This guy considers his personal space around him to be quite extensive…

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Here’s something from a hindu site…

http://www.atmajyoti.org/images/orans450.gif

Here’s the vertical forearm style. Doesn’t look lame on this icon though…

http://www.gittebuch.dk/images/foto/027orans novgorod-X_small.jpg
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Did you notice how all the icons have the palms facing you?

It’s funny, my niece is married to a pagan. He claims that this gesture was stolen from them just like the Yule Log.
(I know, he’s wacky but I’m praying for him)
 
Pariah Pirana:
I especially wonder about those individual who appear to be signalling touchdowns during the Mass…
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Do you want to get this thread closed? 'cause it probably will be if I answer you.

Do you care to rethink this irreverence toward a legitimate prayer posture?
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Did you notice how all the icons have the palms facing you?

It’s funny, my niece is married to a pagan. He claims that this gesture was stolen from them just like the Yule Log.
(I know, he’s wacky but I’m praying for him)
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He’s whacky???

There are quite a few others who need prayer.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
What in the world is “a Father of the Church”?
Isn’t it the priest, not the laity that are suppose to imitate Christ?

Most times I am very sad about leaving home. Right now, I’m glad I moved out of Cleveland.
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Your lack of knowledge is showing again.
 
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Mysty101:
Do you want to get this thread closed? 'cause it probably will be if I answer you.

Do you care to rethink this irreverence toward a legitimate prayer posture?
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Ouch! Mysty…aren’t you getting a little touchy?
 
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GregoryPalamas:
The icons of people are prayer show mostly not people kneeling or folding hands. Since my graduate work was in Patristic studies I do believe I know what I’m talking about when I say the ancient church tended more often than not to pray with hands raised.
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Dan!
I’m impressed! Although I had to admit that I had to do a Google Search on your expertise!
Could you please tell me why the Latin Rite went to folded hands as the prayer posture instead of the orans? For a thousand years of art, we had folded hands. Why the change from the catacombs?
Thank you!
 
PS to N there are some good links to the Catholic encyclopedia, the Catechism and other resourses, if you care to try to learn about your Religion.

In brief, the Early Church Fathers (a.k.a. Fathers of the Church) were those Great Christian writers who passed on and clarified Catholic doctrine from approximately the 2nd-8th centuries.

Definition: In trying to determine who rightly can be called a “Father of the Church” (or "Early Church Father) one must keep in mind that “Father of the Church” is not an officially conferred distinction for which Catholics have a definitive list as is the title “Doctor of the Church.” Rather, “Early Church Father” is a title that gradually came to be applied to certain Christian leaders distinguished by four characteristics: antiquity, holiness, orthodoxy, and Church approval.
 
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Annunciata:
Ouch! Mysty…aren’t you getting a little touchy?
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When it comes to childish irreverence, I am VERY touchy. I wouldn’t let my 5th grade CCD students engage in this behavior, and I certainly will not let it go unchallenged from “adults”
 
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axolotl:
also this:

dioceseofcleveland.org/news/anexplanationoftheGIRM.htm
  • Code: 
          Recitation of the “Our Father”:*

      

                                        During the “Our Father” (Lord’s Prayer) people **may** raise their hands. This is not, as some suggest, an attempt to mimic those from the Evangelical or Pentecostal Churches. It is an attempt to recover an ancient gesture of the Church seen in the catacombs, but most importantly, it is an imitation of how Christ prayed in life and in death, says Tertullian, a Father of the Church. People may also continue to fold their hands at their hearts. Neither of these gestures is mandated by GIRM. They are pastoral suggestion from Tradition.
Click to expand...
Wow. I did a Google Search on Tertullian. Here is what I found…
Tertullian
Code: 
(QUINTUS SEPTIMIUS FLORENS TERTULLIANUS).
Ecclesiastical writer in the second and third centuries, b. probably about 160 at Carthage…

From here…
newadvent.org/cathen/14520c.htm

It would be nice if the Cleveland Diocese put some quotation marks around what Tertullian said. Exactly. And gave us a reference.
 
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Mysty101:
Your lack of knowledge is showing again.
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Your lack of charity is showing again.
You are the only person on this forum who launches into personal attacks right away. Your personal attacks on people are mean and uncharitable.
Please remember Jesus said whatever you do to the least of His brothers, you do to Him.
 
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Mysty101:
When it comes to childish irreverence, I am VERY touchy. I wouldn’t let my 5th grade CCD students engage in this behavior, and I certainly will not let it go unchallenged from “adults”
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Mysty,
We aren’t your 5th grade students… lighten up!
 
Swiss Guard said:
Your lack of charity is showing again.

You are the only person on this forum who launches into personal attacks right away. Your personal attacks on people are mean and uncharitable.

Please remember Jesus said whatever you do to the least of His brothers, you do to Him.
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This sound really good, after some of the things you’ve said to me.
 
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Mysty101:
This sound really good, after some of the things you’ve said to me.
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You are correct, I was very sarcastic to you in another thread and I apologize for my sarcasam.
However, you go on the attack against anyone who disagrees with you. I find your personal attacks to be downright mean at times.
If you want people to treat you with respect, show that same respect to others.
 
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dumspirospero:
… During the Mass, the Orans posture by anyone other than the Priest is not in the Rubrics and therefore is a private gesture…and therefore in some cases conflicts with the gestures and signs the rubrics are supposed to protect…which is also a problem because the Mass is not a private ceremony. Even the Pope has stated that The Orans Posture has created confusion within the Mass…
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Back on topic…
I think this already says it all…:yup:
 
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