What do you think happened to Pontius Pilate?

[patrick457]

In the Acts of Pilate, Pilate - who explicitly recognizes Jesus’ true identity as king - really only condemns Him (hesitantly) since Jesus Himself excuses Him from any blame, “because Moses and the prophets foretold [His] death and resurrection.” The Paradosis Pilati ups the ante: the reason why Tiberius sends for Pilate here is not because of the use of excessive brutality against Samaritan fanatics (as in Josephus), but because of his role in the crucifixion of Jesus. Pilate defends himself by blaming “the lawless and ungodly Jews,” and confessing that “indeed the records of him are true; for assuredly I myself was persuaded from his works that he was greater than all the gods whom we worship.”

This results in Tiberius sending troops to attack and scatter the Jews of Judaea because “they have forced Pilate to crucify a certain god named Jesus, and on account of this great fault of theirs the world has been darkened and dragged to destruction.” Pilate doesn’t come off clean though: Tiberius still decides to execute him anyway because of his involvement, whereupon he begs to God before his death forgiveness for himself and his wife (and receives subsequently receives divine approval).

And Pilate, going away to the place, prayed in silence, saying: “Lord, do not destroy me along with the wicked Hebrews, because I would not have laid hands upon Thee, except for the nation of the lawless Jews, because they were exciting rebellion against me. But Thou knowest that I did it in ignorance. Do not then destroy me for this my sin; but remember not evil against me, O Lord, and against Thy servant Procla, who is standing with me in this the hour of my death, whom Thou didst appoint to prophesy that Thou shouldest be nailed to the cross. Do not condemn her also in my sin; but pardon us, and make us to be numbered in the portion of Thy righteous.”

And, behold, when Pilate had finished his prayer, there came a voice out of the heaven, saying: “All the generations and families of the nations shall count thee blessed, because under thee have been fulfilled all those things said about me by the prophets; and thou thyself shall be seen as my witness at my second appearing, when I shall judge the twelve tribes of Israel, and those that have not owned my name.” And the prefect struck off the head of Pilate; and, behold, an angel of the Lord received it. And his wife Procla, seeing the angel coming and receiving his head, being filled with joy herself also, immediately gave up the ghost, and was buried along with her husband.

In these texts, Pilate is a repentant, believing Christian, and a martyr to boot. He does God’s will in ensuring Jesus’ death and ensures its completion (often receiving encouragement and approval for his deeds). However, his exoneration goes hand-in-hand with greatly increased blame placed on the Jews (usually on the people as a whole), who are shown to reject God: the Christianization of Pilate (and his wife) makes them a foil to the Jewish leaders, whose guilt stands out all the more.

Contrasting with this highly-positive image of Pilate is the picture of a Pilate who kills himself in disgrace. Eusebius already attests to the existence of the legend of Pilate’s suicide in the 4th century (Church History 2.2.7):

It is worthy of note that Pilate himself, who was governor in the time of our Saviour, is reported to have fallen into such misfortunes under Caius [Caligula], whose times we are recording, that he was forced to become his own murderer and executioner; and thus divine vengeance, as it seems, was not long in overtaking him. This is stated by those Greek historians who have recorded the Olympiads, together with the respective events which have taken place in each period.

The legend is elaborated further in a later work known as Mors Pilati (Death of Pilate), which survives only in a single manuscript from the 14th century.

Volusianus therefore came with Veronica to Rome, and said to Tiberius the emperor: “Jesus, whom you have been longing for, Pilate and the Jews have delivered to an unjust death, and have through envy affixed to the gibbet of the cross. There has therefore come with me a certain matron, bringing a picture ofJesus himself; and if you will devoutly look upon it, you shall immediately obtain the benefit of your health.” Caesar therefore ordered the way to be strewn with silk cloths, and the picture to be presented to him; and as soon as he had looked upon it, he regained his former health.

 

[patrick457]

Pontius Pilate, therefore, by the command of Caesar, is taken and brought through to Rome. Caesar, hearing that Pilate had arrived at Rome, was filled with exceeding fury against him, and caused him to be brought to him. But Pilate brought down with him the seamless tunic of Jesus; and he wore it on him in presence of the emperor. And as soon as the emperor saw him, he laid aside all his anger, and immediately rose up to meet him. Nor was he able to speak harshly to him in anything; and he who seemed so terrible and fierce in his absence, now in his presence is somehow found to be mild. And when he had sent him away, immediately he blazed out against him terribly, crying out that he was a wretch, inasmuch as he had not at all shown him the fury of his heart. And immediately he made him be called back, swearing and declaring it was infamous that he should live upon the earth. And as soon as he saw him, he immediately saluted him, and threw away all the ferocity of his mind. All wondered; and he himself wondered that he should thus blaze out against Pilate when he was absent, and that while he was present he could say nothing to him roughly. Then, by a divine impulse, or perhaps by the advice of some Christian, he caused him to be stripped of that tunic, and immediately resumed against him his former ferocity of mind. And when at this the emperor wondered very much, it was told him that that tunic had belonged to the Lord Jesus. Then the emperor ordered him to be kept in prison, until he should deliberate in a council of the wise men what ought to be done with him. And a few days after, sentence was therefore passed upon Pilate, that he should be condemned to the most disgraceful death. Pilate, hearing this, killed himself with his own knife, and by such a death ended his life.

When Caesar knew of the death of Pilate, he said: “Truly he has died by a most disgraceful death, whom his own hand has not spared.” He is therefore bound to a great mass, and sunk into the river Tiber. But malignant and filthy spirits in his malignant and filthy body, all rejoicing together, kept moving themselves in the waters, and in a terrible manner brought lightnings and tempests, thunders and hail-storms in the air, so that all men were kept in horrible fear. Wherefore the Romans, drawing him out of the river Tiber, in derision carried him down to Vienna, and sunk him in the river Rhone. For Vienna is called, as it were, Via Gehenna, the way of Gehenna, because it was then a place of cursing. But there evil spirits were present, working the same things in the same place. Those men therefore, not enduring such a visitation of demons, removed from themselves that vessel of malediction, and sent him to be buried in the territory of Losania. And they, seeing that they were troubled by from themselves, and sunk him in a certain pit surrounded by mountains, where to this day, according to the account of some, certain diabolical machinations are said to bubble up.

 

[NonServiam]

Your ‘conclusions’ in the absence of absolute proofs are just another person’s ‘beliefs’.

Except that his conclusions are in line with where the evidence we do have points: that consciousness is a product of brains. Even though we don’t have a perfect understanding of how this works – and even if we never perfectly understand it – we can still observe that that’s where the evidence strongly points and that there is no evidence that suggests consciousness can exist without a brain.

On the basis of a massive amount of evidence, once can rightfully conclude that it’s very likely that consciousness ends once brain activity does.

 

[Hokomai]

Are you a believer in infinite “elements?”

I am not sure what “infinite ‘elements’” are, but I already like them because they have allowed me properly to put three inverted commas in a row!

Sorry for the aside from the interesting Pilate posts. Wouldn’t he make a great movie?

 

[Hokomai]

Except that his conclusions are in line with where the evidence we do have points: that consciousness is a product of brains. Even though we don’t have a perfect understanding of how this works – and even if we never perfectly understand it – we can still observe that that’s where the evidence strongly points and that there is no evidence that suggests consciousness can exist without a brain.

On the basis of a massive amount of evidence, once can rightfully conclude that it’s very likely that consciousness ends once brain activity does.

Very well put. I often recommend that people read Susan Blackmore (just Google her) on consciousness, the perception of ‘I’ inside us, and out-of-body experiences. She is pretty persuasive and would conclude, I think, that Gov. Pilate is no longer about.

 

[Dom_Passeri]

Matthew 27:24
And Pilate seeing that he prevailed nothing, but that rather a tumult was made; taking water washed his hands before the people, saying: I am innocent of the blood of this just man; look you to it.

Mark 15:15
And so Pilate being willing to satisfy the people, released to them Barabbas, and delivered up Jesus, when he had scourged him, to be crucified.

Luke 23:4
And Pilate said to the chief priests and to the multitudes: I find no cause in this man.

Luke 23:24
And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required.

John 19:6
When the chief priests, therefore, and the servants, had seen him, they cried out, saying: Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith to them: Take him you, and crucify him: for I find no cause in him.

John 19:8
When Pilate therefore had heard this saying, he feared the more.

Acts Of Apostles 3:13
The God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus, whom you indeed delivered up and denied before the face of Pilate, when he judged he should be released.

It’s a pretty open-and-shut case: Pilate had a gun to his head. Had he not delivered Jesus to the Jews it would have been political suicide as well as possibly a death sentence. Whether this exonerates him any, who can say. Who can say if he ever repented of it, or if he perhaps converted, and where his soul ended up. Some sources say heaven, others say hell. The only person who is explicitly said to be in hell is Judas, but it isn’t because he gave Jesus up…It’s because he despaired.

 

[patrick457]

Matthew 27:24
And Pilate seeing that he prevailed nothing, but that rather a tumult was made; taking water washed his hands before the people, saying: I am innocent of the blood of this just man; look you to it.

Mark 15:15
And so Pilate being willing to satisfy the people, released to them Barabbas, and delivered up Jesus, when he had scourged him, to be crucified.

Luke 23:4
And Pilate said to the chief priests and to the multitudes: I find no cause in this man.

Luke 23:24
And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required.

John 19:6
When the chief priests, therefore, and the servants, had seen him, they cried out, saying: Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith to them: Take him you, and crucify him: for I find no cause in him.

John 19:8
When Pilate therefore had heard this saying, he feared the more.

Acts Of Apostles 3:13
The God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus, whom you indeed delivered up and denied before the face of Pilate, when he judged he should be released.

It’s a pretty open-and-shut case: Pilate had a gun to his head. Had he not delivered Jesus to the Jews it would have been political suicide as well as possibly a death sentence. Whether this exonerates him any, who can say. Who can say if he ever repented of it, or if he perhaps converted, and where his soul ended up. Some sources say heaven, others say hell. The only person who is explicitly said to be in hell is Judas, but it isn’t because he gave Jesus up…It’s because he despaired.

And we don’t even presume to know what happened to Judas.

 

[Hokomai]

And we don’t even presume to know what happened to Judas.

From memory the Bible gives two contradictory accounts of his death - one that he hanged himself and the other that he fell in the potter’s field, and somehow self-disemboweled himself. After that: well, I think he ceased to be. But when I was a believer I was struck by the thought that he must have thought he was doing the right thing, and therefore would not have sinned in doing so. Otherwise why would he do it? Pilate, on the other hand, I do not think would have been much concerned with the mob. He had the power, and used it - but I imagine he also thought he was doing right.

 

[patrick457]

From memory the Bible gives two contradictory accounts of his death - one that he hanged himself and the other that he fell in the potter’s field, and somehow self-disemboweled himself. After that: well, I think he ceased to be.

If you add Papias, you ostensibly have three accounts of Judas’ death.

Judas walked about in this world a sad example of impiety; for his body having swollen to such an extent that he could not pass where a chariot could pass easily, he was crushed by the chariot, so that his bowels gushed out.

But when I was a believer I was struck by the thought that he must have thought he was doing the right thing, and therefore would not have sinned in doing so. Otherwise why would he do it? Pilate, on the other hand, I do not think would have been much concerned with the mob. He had the power, and used it - but I imagine he also thought he was doing right.

We can’t really presume to know, since Scripture doesn’t tell us. E.P. ‘Ed’ Sanders summed it up pretty nicely:

The synoptic gospels lack most of the things that we now expect in the story of someone’s life. Looks, personality, character - we know very little. When it comes to the other figures besides Jesus, we are really in the dark. Pilate, curiously, is given touches of character by Matthew and John, but for the most part the other actors are very flat. Peter, we learn, was a little wishy-washy. What was John like? James? We do not know. What about the Pharisees? They appear in a group, denounce Jesus, sometimes are denounced in turn, and disappear. What were they up to? Were they all equally hostile towards Jesus? Where did they go when they disappeared? If they thought that Jesus’ disciples were breaking the sabbath law (Mark 2.24), why did they not lay a charge by reporting them to a priest (who might have fined them by requiring that each bring a sin offering, two birds, when next in Jerusalem)?
Many readers today do not realize how episodic the synoptic gospels are, since Christians have had almost 2000 years to build up a more novelistic view of the events and people in the gospels. Books have been written, movies made, explanations offered. On Sundays numerous priests, pastors and teachers retell some aspect of the gospel account, adding personality and motive. Judas, the disciple who betrayed Jesus, is often depicted as a frustrated zealot who wanted Jesus to lead a revolution, who thought of himself as a great man in Jesus’ kingdom, and who was bitterly angry when he learned that Jesus wanted another sort of kingdom. This gives the story colour and drama. There is nothing in the gospels about Judas’ ambitions at all. Perhaps he realized that Jesus was a marked man and decided to get out when he still could, while also making a profit. One guess is as good as another. Similarly Mary Magdalene has appealed enormously to people who have imagined all sorts of romantic things about her: she had been a prostitute, she was beautiful, she was in love with Jesus, she fled to France carrying his child. For all we know, on the basis of our sources, she was eighty-six, childless, and keen to mother unkempt young men.

 

[johnnyjones]

I am not sure what “infinite ‘elements’” are, but I already like them because they have allowed me properly to put three inverted commas in a row!

Sorry for the aside from the interesting Pilate posts. Wouldn’t he make a great movie?

Your right I don’t want to sidetrack the post. Maybe I’ll run into this issue with you on another thread.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Not the Acts of Pilate (although that work does exonerate him), but the Paradosis Pilati (‘Giving Up of Pilate’).

Thanks for clarifying this, I was confused for a bit. If I could only remember which Church Father mentions the Acts of Pilate…

 

[Golf_Zulu]

Pilate’s fate is far beyond my pay grade. If we believe what we’ve been taught, we all, including Pilate, will receive what we have earned on Judgement Day.

 

[cajunhillbilly]

I googled Pontius Pilate and his life after the Crucifixtion is contradictory. The Ethiopian Orthodox Church, for instance, says he became a believer and regards him as a Saint.

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

Well, you might apply it, but I would not, since I do not use any unlikely-to-exist being as a personal reference point for my thinking, and I am assuming the gnosis you consider me to not have is about the existence of a god(s).

I am not yet clear on what you are saying.

Yes, but I don’t believe there is no God. I have not concluded there is a god(s), anymore than i have concluded there are unicorns.

You would not call yourself agnostic. You have not concluded that there is a ‘god’. You don’t believe there is no God. I thought that included all possible states, but perhaps it is semantics. Have you ‘concluded’ that there is no God?

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

Except that his conclusions are in line with where the evidence we do have points: that consciousness is a product of brains. Even though we don’t have a perfect understanding of how this works – and even if we never perfectly understand it – we can still observe that that’s where the evidence strongly points and that there is no evidence that suggests consciousness can exist without a brain.

On the basis of a massive amount of evidence, once can rightfully conclude that it’s very likely that consciousness ends once brain activity does.

So that I may understand, please clarify my paraphrasing of what you are saying.

Since there is no evidence yet observed by human consciousness, to support consciousness without a brain, then it is reasonable to assume that consciousness cannot exist without a brain?

That reasoning, when applied a great number of times in the past, has turned out dead wrong.

There are HUGE assumptions that must be accepted in order to ascribe to this reasonsing. Assumptions that have little to no reasonable support whatsoever.

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

But when I was a believer I was struck by the thought that he must have thought he was doing the right thing, and therefore would not have sinned in doing so. Otherwise why would he do it? Pilate, on the other hand, I do not think would have been much concerned with the mob. He had the power, and used it - but I imagine he also thought he was doing right.

I would like to understand this reasoning you had as a believer.

1. If people act, it is obviously always in alignment with what they believe is right.
2. It is not possible to sin if one acts according to what they think is right.
3. Therefore, it is not ever possible for anyone to sin.

 

[Dom_Passeri]

And we don’t even presume to know what happened to Judas.

“…but woe to that man by whom the Son of man shall be betrayed: it were better for him, if that man had not been born.”

Come on, man, use yer imagination…put two and two together. Along with the fact that he committed suicide, I’d say this is pretty conclusive.

 

[coachkfan1]

According to our faith it was neither Pilate or the Jews who killed Jesus…but the sins of each of us…So with every sin we commit - we are crucifying Christ.

I do agree with the premise of what you are saying, but I think that there is a special connection to the role of the Jewish people in Christ’s death. Christ himself a Jew said the I am sent to the house of Israel. Believing as we do in the entire Bible, we know that the Israelites were God’s chosen people. And so while I am not educated enough to offer an opinion of the role of the Jews in Christ’s death, I do believe that there is a mysterious purpose for their participation in His Death that is connected to their salvation. Just my opinion.

 

[patrick457]

“…but woe to that man by whom the Son of man shall be betrayed: it were better for him, if that man had not been born.”

Come on, man, use yer imagination…put two and two together. Along with the fact that he committed suicide, I’d say this is pretty conclusive.

That’s just one way of looking at it. Pope John Paul II once wrote in Crossing the Threshold of Hope:

The problem of hell has always disturbed great thinkers in the Church, beginning with Origen and continuing in our time with Sergey Bulgakov and Hans Urs von Balthasar. In point of fact, the ancient councils rejected the theory of the “final apocatastasis,” according to which the world would be regenerated after destruction, and every creature would be saved; a theory which indirectly abolished hell. But the problem remains. Can God, who has loved man so much, permit the man who rejects Him to be condemned to eternal torment? And yet, the words of Christ are unequivocal. In Matthew’s Gospel He speaks clearly of those who will go to eternal punishment (cf. Mt 25:46). Who will these be? The Church has never made any pronouncement in this regard. This is a mystery, truly inscrutable, which embraces the holiness of God and the conscience of man. The silence of the Church is, therefore, the only appropriate position for Christian faith. Even when Jesus says of Judas, the traitor, “It would be better for that man if he had never been born” (Mt 26:24), His words do not allude for certain to eternal damnation.

And while I don’t think that there’s a huge chance that we’d bump into Judas Iscariot in Heaven, his eternal fate - and that of everyone else, including suicides - is only something that God knows for sure: everything else is just speculation. Which is really why the Church doesn’t practice ‘anti-canonizations’, saying that so-and-so is definitely in Hell (wise for her to do that IMHO).

 

[Dom_Passeri]

That’s just one way of looking at it. Pope John Paul II once wrote in Crossing the Threshold of Hope:

Can God, who has loved man so much, permit the man who rejects Him to be condemned to eternal torment?

We have free will. It’s not his doing…it’s ours.

And yet, the words of Christ are unequivocal. In Matthew’s Gospel He speaks clearly of those who will go to eternal punishment (cf. Mt 25:46). Who will these be? The Church has never made any pronouncement in this regard. This is a mystery, truly inscrutable, which embraces the holiness of God and the conscience of man. The silence of the Church is, therefore, the only appropriate position for Christian faith. Even when Jesus says of Judas, the traitor, “It would be better for that man if he had never been born” (Mt 26:24), His words do not allude for certain to eternal damnation.

What is greater than being with God in heaven? Nothing, of course. The Gospel says “Woe to him”. Heaven is not woe. There is no woe in heaven. I understand God reserves judgement for himself, and that I’m not privy, but unfortunately, JPII’s comment is not logical.