What do you think? Is begging a sin?

[Yehuda_Dion]

The Bible contains what can be interpreted as an admonishment against begging: “You are not really living your own life if you beg. You pollute yourself by accepting food from another.” (I forgot which book I got that from). Living here in Indonesia where I see thousands of people who cannot do otherwise to get food but beg, it raises the question. Is begging considered a sin in our Christian religion? If you think so, why? And if you don’t think it’s a sin, why not? If you think it is a sin, is it a mortal or venial sin?

 

[april32010]

Sirach 40:28 My child, don’t live the life of a beggar; it is better to die than to beg.

Sirach 40:29 If you have to depend on someone else for your food, you are not really living your own life. You pollute yourself by accepting food from another. Begging is torture to the soul of any sensitive person.

Sirach 40:30 A shameless person can make begging sound sweet, but something inside him burns.

 

[JNdoum]

Well, I can’t say that in cases of extreme desperation begging is wrong, because it is not necessarily a sin. A think the Bible was referring to cases in which a person could work, but instead lived off the charity of others. The Lord does ask us to care for the poor, and I think begging can make their cries urgent enough that we may hear them from time to time.

 

[underacloud]

Consider the parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16). Lazarus was a beggar who died and was carried by angels to Abraham’s bosom. God shows pity towards the beggar, not condemnation for any sin.

Likewise, Christ encounters beggars and the lame through His ministries and never shows condemnation, but compasion.

While I could say that for me to beg would be a sin, because God has provided for me and my family by allowing me to work for a reasonable living, I would never presume to judge a beggar on the street who’s life story and circumstances I don’t know.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

The book of Sirach reflects the natural undesirableness of a life of begging, but Christ teaches us charity towards the most needy of our neighbors. I don’t think we ought to be judging beggars as being sinful. In most cases we don’t know how they got where they are, and certainly in the last desperation there is no sin in making known your needs.

Also consider the mendicant orders, that is, the begging orders. The existence of such vocations in the Church suggests to me that not only is begging not sinful, but it is one way of living out the evangelical council of poverty.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

If there are no employment opportunities open to you,
begging is not a sin.

If you are looking for work, and can’t find it,
begging is not a sin.

If you are crippled, cannot find work, and no one wants to hire you,
begging is not a sin.

If you are mentally ill, and cannot hold down a job,
begging is not a sin.

If you are elderly, have preciously little money, and your social security doesn’t cover all your legitimate needs, asking for help, or begging, is not a sin.

If you can work, if there are jobs available to you, and you refuse to try to find one, are mentally sound and able bodied and qualified to work, not too old to work, and REFUSE TO WORK and DON’T WANT TO, then begging is a shameful, sinful thing to do. You are then welching off of others ON PURPOSE.

To those who adversely judge beggars across the board:
IF you lost YOUR job, couldn’t find one, and accepted any Unemployment Compensation,
then you have no room to judge another UNFORTUNATE (not deliberately lazy) person for begging, as in many states, Unemployment Compensation is paid for by your previous employer via paying for it in Insurance provided to the State. If you are getting unemployment cuz you are unlucky enough to not be able to find a job, do not sit on your high horse criticizing street people who beg. You too, are getting a handout.
In my state, our employers, not us, pay for the Insurance from which Unemployment Compensation comes. So if you (not anyone in particular) are unlucky due to the economy, and are receiving Unemp. Compensation, do not sit in judgment of (often mentally ill) street people who beg. They are asking for a handout. You are GETTING a handout, just one that is socially more acceptable (such as via a check or direct deposit to your bank account).

My experience with beggars is that many of these souls have serious mental and health problems and could never hold down a job even if one were offered to them. And what would be offered to these unfortunates would, in most cases, NOT pay a LIVING wage ((as church teaching REQUIRES employers to pay)), and would therefore have to continue to beg “on the side” anyway to make up the difference.

Tough issue. The Book of Sirach is speaking in general terms and it’s true enough, but isn’t (and isn’t intended to) take in all the “variables” that lead some people to beg.
And Jesus said to GIVE TO ANYBODY WHO ASKS FROM YOU,
not to take an hour to discern whether you “feel” they are entitled to $5 from you ((if you have it to spare, not everyone does)). Sometimes, by doing such acts of kindness to a disshevelled stranger, you are actually, unbeknownst to you at the time, being tested by God and are actually, though unaware of it, giving money to a materialized Angel, and scripture even says plainly that this in fact does happen. MANY have entertained
Angels UNAWARES.
Love to all of you,
Jaypeeto4

 

[George_Stegmeir]

If there are no employment opportunities open to you,
begging is not a sin.

If you are looking for work, and can’t find it,
begging is not a sin.

If you are crippled, cannot find work, and no one wants to hire you,
begging is not a sin.

If you are mentally ill, and cannot hold down a job,
begging is not a sin.

If you are elderly, have preciously little money, and your social security doesn’t cover all your legitimate needs, asking for help, or begging, is not a sin.

If you can work, if there are jobs available to you, and you refuse to try to find one, are mentally sound and able bodied and qualified to work, not too old to work, and REFUSE TO WORK and DON’T WANT TO, then begging is a shameful, sinful thing to do. You are then welching off of others ON PURPOSE.

To those who adversely judge beggars across the board:
IF you lost YOUR job, couldn’t find one, and accepted any Unemployment Compensation,
then you have no room to judge another UNFORTUNATE (not deliberately lazy) person for begging, as in many states, Unemployment Compensation is paid for by your previous employer via paying for it in Insurance provided to the State. If you are getting unemployment cuz you are unlucky enough to not be able to find a job, do not sit on your high horse criticizing street people who beg. You too, are getting a handout.
In my state, our employers, not us, pay for the Insurance from which Unemployment Compensation comes. So if you (not anyone in particular) are unlucky due to the economy, and are receiving Unemp. Compensation, do not sit in judgment of (often mentally ill) street people who beg. They are asking for a handout. You are GETTING a handout, just one that is socially more acceptable (such as via a check or direct deposit to your bank account).

My experience with beggars is that many of these souls have serious mental and health problems and could never hold down a job even if one were offered to them. And what would be offered to these unfortunates would, in most cases, NOT pay a LIVING wage ((as church teaching REQUIRES employers to pay)), and would therefore have to continue to beg “on the side” anyway to make up the difference.

Tough issue. The Book of Sirach is speaking in general terms and it’s true enough, but isn’t (and isn’t intended to) take in all the “variables” that lead some people to beg.
And Jesus said to GIVE TO ANYBODY WHO ASKS FROM YOU,
not to take an hour to discern whether you “feel” they are entitled to $5 from you ((if you have it to spare, not everyone does)). Sometimes, by doing such acts of kindness to a disshevelled stranger, you are actually, unbeknownst to you at the time, being tested by God and are actually, though unaware of it, giving money to a materialized Angel, and scripture even says plainly that this in fact does happen. MANY have entertained
Angels UNAWARES.
Love to all of you,
Jaypeeto4

I agree! Unfortunately, there are enough public welfare sources in the US, that begging is mostly unnecessary.
The sad fact is that in major cities, such as New York, Philadelphia, Chicago, LA and San Francisco, most beggers are professional beggars who definately are not needy. Many of these people make more in a couple of days than the average blue collar working man earns in a week. These people are definately commiting a sin, in that they are taking alms away from those truely in need.
There were professional beggars outside of the Temple in ancient Jerusalem who would tell people they should be glad they were there, so that they could fulfill their religious obligation to give alms. They were known as the schnorim. Today, the Jews have a term for particularly obnoxious, dishonest scam artists: Schnorers. And the verb Schnorr means to cadge or scam.

 

[Jacob18]

If there are no employment opportunities open to you,
begging is not a sin.

If you are looking for work, and can’t find it,
begging is not a sin.

If you are crippled, cannot find work, and no one wants to hire you,
begging is not a sin.

If you are mentally ill, and cannot hold down a job,
begging is not a sin.

If you are elderly, have preciously little money, and your social security doesn’t cover all your legitimate needs, asking for help, or begging, is not a sin.

If you can work, if there are jobs available to you, and you refuse to try to find one, are mentally sound and able bodied and qualified to work, not too old to work, and REFUSE TO WORK and DON’T WANT TO, then begging is a shameful, sinful thing to do. You are then welching off of others ON PURPOSE.

To those who adversely judge beggars across the board:
IF you lost YOUR job, couldn’t find one, and accepted any Unemployment Compensation,
then you have no room to judge another UNFORTUNATE (not deliberately lazy) person for begging, as in many states, Unemployment Compensation is paid for by your previous employer via paying for it in Insurance provided to the State. If you are getting unemployment cuz you are unlucky enough to not be able to find a job, do not sit on your high horse criticizing street people who beg. You too, are getting a handout.
So, were the Dominicans and Franciscans sinners because they were able bodied and begged?
In my state, our employers, not us, pay for the Insurance from which Unemployment Compensation comes. So if you (not anyone in particular) are unlucky due to the economy, and are receiving Unemp. Compensation, do not sit in judgment of (often mentally ill) street people who beg. They are asking for a handout. You are GETTING a handout, just one that is socially more acceptable (such as via a check or direct deposit to your bank account).

My experience with beggars is that many of these souls have serious mental and health problems and could never hold down a job even if one were offered to them. And what would be offered to these unfortunates would, in most cases, NOT pay a LIVING wage ((as church teaching REQUIRES employers to pay)), and would therefore have to continue to beg “on the side” anyway to make up the difference.

Tough issue. The Book of Sirach is speaking in general terms and it’s true enough, but isn’t (and isn’t intended to) take in all the “variables” that lead some people to beg.
And Jesus said to GIVE TO ANYBODY WHO ASKS FROM YOU,
not to take an hour to discern whether you “feel” they are entitled to $5 from you ((if you have it to spare, not everyone does)). Sometimes, by doing such acts of kindness to a disshevelled stranger, you are actually, unbeknownst to you at the time, being tested by God and are actually, though unaware of it, giving money to a materialized Angel, and scripture even says plainly that this in fact does happen. MANY have entertained
Angels UNAWARES.
Love to all of you,
Jaypeeto4

 

[Jacob18]

So, were the Dominicans and Franciscans who were able-bodied and begged sinners?

 

[Jaypeeto4]

I agree! Unfortunately, there are enough public welfare sources in the US, that begging is mostly unnecessary.
The sad fact is that in major cities, such as New York, Philadelphia, Chicago, LA and San Francisco, most beggers are professional beggars who definately are not needy. Many of these people make more in a couple of days than the average blue collar working man earns in a week. These people are definately commiting a sin, in that they are taking alms away from those truely in need.

Hi George, I can’t address New York or Philly or LA or San Fran or Chicago,
but I can tell you what I observed living in Miami all my life, and working downtown, full of beggars, for 22 years. These people are NOT making good money, they are ill, they need care, most people walk by them and REFUSE to even look them in the eye or make nasty comments to them or about them.
Yes, a few of them are jerks.
Most of them are helpless people, not well mentally or physically.
No there are not enough programs and homes to help them
There are plenty of TAXES collected ostensibly for this purpose, but they are not getting to these people. There ARE “Shelters,” but many of them refuse to sleep in the shelters because there are very EVIL ones who stay in the shelters who, once the lights are out, ROB and beating the living daylights out of, the more gentle and helpless homeless people. They are terrified of the shelters for that reason, and would rather risk arrest by a cop by sleeping in a store doorway or under a bridge than fall asleep in the shelter only to be awakened by a vicious maniac pummelling the hell out of them or, sometimes, even cutting them up.
We had one young guy, a young guy, who was totally dysfunctional. A nice, sweet young fellow in his twenties. LOOKED perfectly normal, but he wasn’t right upstairs.
Nobody would have any compassion on this guy. So my friend Jesus (apropos name, I think), took him to GESU Church for Mass one day at Noon, after getting him a bite to eat. The young guy sat in the Church hearing Mass and started sobbing. When Jesus brought him back to our company’s street corner, he , the homeless young guy, still had tears streaming down his face.

Please don’t adopt that view that they have all they need and that they are sinning by begging. It isn’t that way. Those shelters are dangerous. They even get beat up when they go for dinner to the various rescue missions near downtown. The bullies want THEIR food as well as their own serving. Its a very, very ugly, sad, and bad situation.
These people, most of them, are NOT sinning.
Peace to you, George.
Jaypeeto4

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

I agree! Unfortunately, there are enough public welfare sources in the US, that begging is mostly unnecessary.

While this may be true in your part of the country, it certainly isn’t the case in central California, where I am. Here both homeless and domestic violence shelters are full, and counties are placing mothers and children who need emergency shelter in fleabag motels primarily used for drug use and prostitution. And these mothers and children are the ones lucky enough to get a place for a night or two.

My town currently has a shameful collection of homeless tent/cardboard cities that hold anywhere from a couple of dozen to close to a thousand homeless men, women, and children. One of these camps is a block from the school where I work. These encampments have no running water and enteric disease breakouts and the fires in them hit the papers here regularly.

My neighborhood is anything but dodgy, yet with alarming regularity I’ll be outside pulling weeds or setting out my laundry racks and someone will approach me and ask for a sandwich for their child or ask if I have anything I could give them so they can feed their dog. I only have cats, but I’ve started keeping small bags of dog food in my pantry for these folks. Once I had an elderly woman just knock on my door and ask if I had anything for her to eat.

If social services were that readily available in my community, I really don’t think moms would risk walking around asking random strangers for lunch meat for their children.

Luna

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Wasn’t Jesus basically a beggar himself? I mean, it’s not like he was a farmer or a scribe or a trader or even a fisher (in the everyday sense) or anything else, so how did he feed/clothe himself? Donations to the ministry, right? That’s what I’m thinking, at least.

 

[Lochias]

Well, St. Francis certainly didn’t see it that way. Taking one verse of the Bible out of context is an old, sorry refrain that I get really weary of hearing after a while.

 

[serviichristii]

Wasn’t Jesus basically a beggar himself? I mean, it’s not like he was a farmer or a scribe or a trader or even a fisher (in the everyday sense) or anything else, so how did he feed/clothe himself? Donations to the ministry, right? That’s what I’m thinking, at least.

LOL are you kidding me? He worked for his belongings; he was the son of a carpenter and stayed at home for a VERY long time. He didn’t BEG for food; he could simply create it himself. No this is just wrong.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

LOL are you kidding me?

No, I’m not kidding.

He worked for his belongings; he was the son of a carpenter and stayed at home for a VERY long time.

Craftsman, I believe, and even there, well let’s just move on…

His ministry lasted 3 years. You’re saying that he practiced the trade during this time as he traveled to and fro? Is there any Biblical substantiation for this? I don’t recall any, but I am the forgetful type.

He didn’t BEG for food; he could simply create it himself.

So Jesus wakes up in the morning and says, Hey, Peter, here are some cooked eggs… Then at night he’s making fish appear out of nowhere — and he was in the business of miraculously creating clothing for everyone all along? Yet meanwhile, none of the Bible writers mentioned this? You don’t think that one of them would mention the fact that he was performing daily miracles to sustain his ministry?

No this is just wrong.

Based on what?

 

[serviichristii]

No, I’m not kidding.

So you’re saying that Jesus BEGGED for food and drink every day for 3 years? That he went up to people, knelt, and asked for pity on his cause? That’s what begging is. People took him into their home; he was a celebrity. Sure he was hated, but there were those who wanted Him around simply because he spoke with authority and was able to cure their illnesses. there is no evidence for your statement that he is a BEGGAR. He might have been the beneficiary of people’s kindness, but He did not beg for it.

 

[serviichristii]

So Jesus wakes up in the morning and says, Hey, Peter, here are some cooked eggs… Then at night he’s making fish appear out of nowhere — and he was in the business of miraculously creating clothing for everyone all along? Yet meanwhile, none of the Bible writers mentioned this? You don’t think that one of them would mention the fact that he was performing daily miracles to sustain his ministry?
?

Where in the bible does it say that donations to his ministry equate to him begging for it?
Your statement clearly was : "Wasn’t Jesus basically a beggar himself? "
Think about that. Jesus BEGGED people for food and clothing?

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Where in the bible does it say that donations to his ministry equate to him begging for it?
Your statement clearly was : "Wasn’t Jesus basically a beggar himself? "
Think about that. Jesus BEGGED people for food and clothing?

Yeah, it’s probably the definition of the word “beg” that we’re having our misunderstanding on. I’m not suggesting that Jesus was standing on a corner or anything. Instead, I meant that he appears to have sustained his ministry on voluntary giving. Is that right?

I apologize if that came off like, “Jesus was just sitting around asking bystanders for cash.” I was using the word “beggar” as something of an opposite to the idea of being a “wage earner” you know?

Still, I bet you he has a soft spot in his heart for the beggar, as he does for all the downtrodden. So while I do think that it’s nice to contribute to a community in a material way, I don’t necessarily view the word beggar as a dirty word.

 

[serviichristii]

Yeah, it’s probably the definition of the word “beg” that we’re having our misunderstanding on. I’m not suggesting that Jesus was standing on a corner or anything. Instead, I meant that he appears to have sustained his ministry on voluntary giving. Is that right?

I apologize if that came off like, “Jesus was just sitting around asking bystanders for cash.” I was using the word “beggar” as something of an opposite to the idea of being a “wage earner” you know?

Still, I bet you he has a soft spot in his heart for the beggar, as he does for all the downtrodden. So while I do think that it’s nice to contribute to a community in a material way, I don’t necessarily view the word beggar as a dirty word.

haha yeah i get you
sorry for sounding aggressive; i tend to do that on alotthis forum
and yes i do believe he has a soft spot in his heart for the beggar. He’s been humilated like no one else before in history, so naturally he would show extra compassion to them. But i think the key thing is to distinguish between beggars who are beggars by choice and those who have been thrust that role by unfortunate circumstances. Those who are beggars by choice are the type that offend God.

 

[Uzziah1]

So, were the Dominicans and Franciscans who were able-bodied and begged sinners?

Well said.

The mendicant orders are technically REQUIRED to beg by their own rule which is approved by the Church.