What do you think of a guitar Mass?

[tee_eff_em]

:twocents:
Guitar accompaniment can be very beautiful, and appropriate to some spaces.

:twocents:
Much of the musical selection is insipid, and would be just as insipid if accompanied by pipe organ.

tee

 

[georgewithfaith]

I usually associate it with an abusive liturgy. As a child Sister Mariann of the progressive Sinisiwa Dominicans (a progressive order) butchered the Our Father with her own guitar version that she had us sing at all the Masses we did at school. Ever since then the guitar has never been a favorite of mine. Usually seen at youth Masses by grubbily dressed young men and women. They use it to accompany singing that produces banal, weary whines. I think I’ve heard songs like Gather Together with guitar accompaniment.

Let’s hearken back to the late 1800s to one day after Pope Leo had offered the sacrifice of the Mass. He fell over and collapsed, they thought he died. Instead he had a terrible vision. He heard Satan tell Jesus he could destroy the Church. Jesus gave him 100 years to try. The good Pope Leo saw many things happening including devilish music in the Church. So he composed the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel to be said after every Mass. This fell into disuse after the reforms of Vatican II when the Mass was revamped by Pope Paul VI who also a few later declared that the smoke of Satan had entered into the Church. Take your own conclusions from this.

 

[JackVk]

I usually associate it with an abusive liturgy. As a child Sister Mariann of the progressive Sinisiwa Dominicans (a progressive order) butchered the Our Father with her own guitar version that she had us sing at all the Masses we did at school. Ever since then the guitar has never been a favorite of mine. Usually seen at youth Masses by grubbily dressed young men and women. They use it to accompany singing that produces banal, weary whines. I think I’ve heard songs like Gather Together with guitar accompaniment.

Let’s hearken back to the late 1800s to one day after Pope Leo had offered the sacrifice of the Mass. He fell over and collapsed, they thought he died. Instead he had a terrible vision. He heard Satan tell Jesus he could destroy the Church. Jesus gave him 100 years to try. The good Pope Leo saw many things happening including devilish music in the Church. So he composed the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel to be said after every Mass. This fell into disuse after the reforms of Vatican II when the Mass was revamped by Pope Paul VI who also a few later declared that the smoke of Satan had entered into the Church. Take your own conclusions from this.

So it’s devilish to have a guitar Mass, no matter how much you love God?

 

[Corki]

:twocents:
Guitar accompaniment can be very beautiful, and appropriate to some spaces.

:twocents:
Much of the musical selection is insipid, and would be just as insipid if accompanied by pipe organ.

tee

This pretty much sums it up.

I admit I instinctively cringe when I hear the phrase “guitar Mass” but that’s because I remember the horrible “folk Masses” of the 70s. On the other hand, my teenage kids, who never were psychically damaged that way, still hate electric guitars and drum sets at Mass. If I ever want to punish them, I threaten the “teen Mass” at a local parish.

That being said, at our parish, the primary English Mass uses a piano and guitar combination which is quite pleasant.

 

[Cat]

I usually associate it with an abusive liturgy. As a child Sister Mariann of the progressive Sinisiwa Dominicans (a progressive order) butchered the Our Father with her own guitar version that she had us sing at all the Masses we did at school. Ever since then the guitar has never been a favorite of mine. Usually seen at youth Masses by grubbily dressed young men and women. They use it to accompany singing that produces banal, weary whines. I think I’ve heard songs like Gather Together with guitar accompaniment.

Let’s hearken back to the late 1800s to one day after Pope Leo had offered the sacrifice of the Mass. He fell over and collapsed, they thought he died. Instead he had a terrible vision. He heard Satan tell Jesus he could destroy the Church. Jesus gave him 100 years to try. The good Pope Leo saw many things happening including devilish music in the Church. So he composed the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel to be said after every Mass. This fell into disuse after the reforms of Vatican II when the Mass was revamped by Pope Paul VI who also a few later declared that the smoke of Satan had entered into the Church. Take your own conclusions from this.

It’s certainly possible that the liturgy can contain abuses, whether guitars or the venerable pipe organ are used.

But it’s very important to remember that use of guitars in Mass is NOT a liturgical abuse.

It may not be the personal preference of everyone in the congregation, but Mass is not about our personal preferences. Yes, the pipe organ should be used if it is available and if someone is available to play it, but those are two very huge “ifs.” Although some people prefer unaccompanied music rather than piano and guitar, most people in the U.S. are grateful for instrumental accompaniment during the congregational singing, and most cantors prefer accompaniment.

 

[Timothysis]

:twocents:
Guitar accompaniment can be very beautiful, and appropriate to some spaces.

:twocents:
Much of the musical selection is insipid, and would be just as insipid if accompanied by pipe organ.

tee

Exactly.

Most people have never really heard a good guitar player, as opposed to someone who just strums first-position chords. A guitar in the hands of the right person can be an amazing experience.

An organ can sound just as bad if played by someone who can’t utilize it; it isn’t as simple as learning something on the piano and moving over to the organ. Like all instruments, it takes time, effort and talent to progress from one level of ability to another. For one reason or another, there aren’t a whole lot of people who pursue playing the pipe organ, so we have to able to adapt.

 

[Timothysis]

Let’s hearken back to the late 1800s to one day after Pope Leo had offered the sacrifice of the Mass. He fell over and collapsed, they thought he died. Instead he had a terrible vision. He heard Satan tell Jesus he could destroy the Church. Jesus gave him 100 years to try. The good Pope Leo saw many things happening including devilish music in the Church. So he composed the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel to be said after every Mass. This fell into disuse after the reforms of Vatican II when the Mass was revamped by Pope Paul VI who also a few later declared that the smoke of Satan had entered into the Church. Take your own conclusions from this.

You do know that this is nothing but a Catholic urban legend, don’t you?

 

[Bob_Aliano]

Why do so many feel they need music at Mass? Since the OP invited opinion, I would prefer a quiet, prayerful Mass.

 

[lutherlic]

One of our Sunday morning Masses has contemporary instruments - piano, guitars, flute and often drums. Just reading this list of instruments you may think that it sounds secular. It doesn’t. The musicians are older and very, very talented. The music is always carefully chosen, reverent and with the outstanding choir very beautiful. It is not entertainment but reverence and elevation of our worship.

I have no doubt that is not the case everywhere, but I don’t think conclusions can be fairly drawn exclusively by the instruments used.

 

[CatholicOf94]

You do know that this is nothing but a Catholic urban legend, don’t you?

Well not exactly, the vision itself did happen. As for ‘guitar masses’ I would rather hear youngsters chant beautiful melodies of Our Lady and Our Lord.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

One of our Sunday morning Masses has contemporary instruments - piano, guitars, flute and often drums. Just reading this list of instruments you may think that it sounds secular. It doesn’t. The musicians are older and very, very talented. The music is always carefully chosen, reverent and with the outstanding choir very beautiful. It is not entertainment but reverence and elevation of our worship.

I have no doubt that is not the case everywhere, but I don’t think conclusions can be fairly drawn exclusively by the instruments used.

Does the congregation applaud after Mass? If so, they regard the music as entertainment not some reverential experience. A truly reverential experience would leave them awed, in silence.

 

[Timothysis]

Well not exactly, the vision itself did happen. .

It’s really up in the air. If everything surrounding the vision is suspect then, at least to me, the whole thing is suspect.

 

[pnewton]

I have no more problem with guitar Masses than the Catholic Church does. I think organs are under-utilized, but I understand the economic issues and lack of good organists. As the Church has prohibited the use of guitars, how could I ever suggest it would be wrong to use them?

One makes do with what one has.

 

[pnewton]

I dislike "guitar "Masses. Why should “God be brought down to our level”? We should strive to elevate ourselves.

Even Mary had to be assumed into heaven instead of ascending. We can not bring God down, but our level is the only one in which we can meet God. That is the reason for the incarnation, as well as the basis of Sacramental theology.

 

[Cat]

Why do so many feel they need music at Mass? Since the OP invited opinion, I would prefer a quiet, prayerful Mass.

Because the Church wants music in Mass.

See GIRM 393. “Bearing in mind the important place that singing has in a celebration as a necessary or integral part of the Liturgy…”

There are so many other Church documents in which the value of music in Mass is extolled. Also, the Bible is full of admonitions to sing to the Lord and to each other.

You’ve surely heard the stories about martyrs marching into the stadium singing? Music is such a powerful way to worship the Lord, and corporate music; i.e., music sung or played with others, is even more powerful. Music is used by the Holy Spirit to literally lift our heart and soul out of despair and help us to have courage and hope.

I can pray and be silent by myself at home or in the Adoration Chapel. But I can’t sing a congregational hymn with others unless there are “others”–obvious, right? (I guess I could put a CD on at home and pretend that there are others singing with me–doesn’t that sound somewhat pathetic?)

 

[Bob_Aliano]

Because the Church wants music in Mass.

See GIRM 393. “Bearing in mind the important place that singing has in a celebration as a necessary or integral part of the Liturgy…”

There are so many other Church documents in which the value of music in Mass is extolled. Also, the Bible is full of admonitions to sing to the Lord and to each other.

You’ve surely heard the stories about martyrs marching into the stadium singing? Music is such a powerful way to worship the Lord, and corporate music; i.e., music sung or played with others, is even more powerful. Music is used by the Holy Spirit to literally lift our heart and soul out of despair and help us to have courage and hope.

I can pray and be silent by myself at home or in the Adoration Chapel. But I can’t sing a congregational hymn with others unless there are “others”–obvious, right? (I guess I could put a CD on at home and pretend that there are others singing with me–doesn’t that sound somewhat pathetic?)

At the OF church I recently left the music was occasionally interrupted for bits of liturgy, one of the reasons I left. Nothing like watching the celebrant stare at the ceiling waiting for the choir to remember the Mass. For the record, my wife still sings in that choir so we attend different churches.

 

[MerryCatholic]

When I go on youth retreats, the songs at Mass are always accompanied by a guitar, whereas at any other Mass, it’s an organ or a piano. I’ve met several youth ministers, but only one has had a problem with a guitar Mass. She says that an instrument like a guitar “brings God down to our level,” and that the human voice is the most beautiful instrument because God gave it to us, so we should use the best materials for God. What’s your opinion?

i’ve heard guitars at Mass more than once, and its not even an issue for me. it sounded pretty nice to me.

 

[jc-servant]

Does the congregation applaud after Mass? If so, they regard the music as entertainment not some reverential experience. A truly reverential experience would leave them awed, in silence.

You cannot really assume why people applaud these days. I know some people are overcome and don’t know of a more appropriate way to express themselves so they applaud after the recessional. As one of the cantors at my parish I have a good vantage point to see faces and many times these people don’t seem to be looking at or thinking about the musicians at all. I think of it more like Protestants shouting “amen” during a sermon or people raising their arms toward Heaven during worship. I’ve seen some amazing and unusual things happen during and after a liturgy when the Holy Spirit could be felt moving through the church and there were many different reactions in the same moment when people are touched by that amazing power and pure love. Some people had silent tears running unchecked. Some had hands that spontaneously raised toward the heavens with their eyes fixed above on something. Some gave no outward sign, but spoke about the experience late and it was no less powerful and reverent a moment for them.

Yes, some people are trying to affirm the musicians after the mass and they just need their appreciation channeled into something more appropriate like a nice note or email to the music director or pastor or as some do to come say a quiet word after mass to the choir or musicians after we pray and start to pack up. However, I would not judge them as so shallow or ignorant that they view any part of the liturgy as “entertainment.”

 

[midget01]

I guess I am very surprised at how opinionated many people are in regards to the type of music used in churches to adore God. I am comfortable with the string instruments as well as the key boards or the wind and electronic. To me music in church should call the congregation to be invovled. If it don’t then they have missed their mark. They are not there to perform for us but to help us to become involved in the service. WE can go to Christian concerts, or Symphonic performances at Carnigie Hall. We are not in church to applaud how it went. We are there to meet our God and if the music helps that is great. I play the piano, organ, accordian, and guitar. I had done all of these in church. When I play it is my offering to God. Yet when I am in the congregation the music needs to be in the background so that my words to God are heard because I am projecting them and I am involved. I know this maybe a personal thing. But I thought that was the purpose of church Music in the first place. After all Silent Night was written for the guitar since there was no organ available that night in Bethlehem, Pa. Don’t get me wrong I love Classical Music, even Gregorian Chant but to chose one over the other I think we are preaching heresy. I think the tight collars need to loosen up and I believe the bibbed overhauls need to learn how to listen to upper class music. But I believe we all need to be open to how God reveals himself through it all. That is what is important. Countries, nationalities,or whatever makes people different allows the mass to be done in different ways. How they chose to reach God should be what is best for the community not just one person out of the group. We are not in it for how many applauds we get per song. Something to think about.

 

[ProVobis]

Here’s what Cardinal Arinze says on the guitar:

"The local church should be conscious that church worship is not really the same as what we sing in a bar, or what we sing in a convention for youth. Therefore it should influence the type of instrument used, the type of music used.** I will not now pronounce and say never guitars; that would be rather severe. But much of guitar music may not be suitable at all for the Mass.**

“The judgment would be left to the bishops of the area. It is wiser that way.”

He continued: "People don’t come to Mass in order to be entertained. They come to Mass to adore God, to thank him, to ask pardon for sins, and to ask for other things that they need.

“When they want entertainment, they know where to go, e.g., the parish hall or a theatre - presuming that their entertainment is acceptable from a moral theological point of view.”

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