What do you think of "Catholic Elopement"?

[Oh_Charlotte]

I am asking because my sweetheart and I want to do this.

We are older. I had my teen son later in life; he has 2 small granddaughters. By Gods grace we found each other, neither of us was looking or thinking of ever dating. We share not only faith And because God brought us together we are just exactly perfect for each other. We are so happy just to be in the same room with each other and all our interactions are full of peace. Even when we “argue”. if you can call it that, as. we have had serious issues to cover, there is so much love between us and and no ill feelings at all that we just feel close all the time. We have a whole lot of love and compatibility but not an overabundance of money. It just doesn’t seem to matter. We both feel we are so much better together than apart.

We are working on how to get our lives together (we are indifferent states) and there are details to work out and big things to do first while we wait for our annulments. We both have multiple solidly good reasons for annulment so we mostly fully expect them to go through, but we must wait of course.

We have been talking wedding and reception but are so impatient to marry. Can’t get engaged till annulments come, can’t plan wedding til then either.

But we now re realize all we want is to be together. A big party with us at the center is not something we feel we need or want. We both had very nice weddings many years ago when we married with the intention of forever. We both had marriages that turned bad practically right after the wedding, however, on that day we both had dreams and hopes and intentions of forever, and had lovely, happy weddings.

We had thought we’d a simple Church wedding then a simple reception. But family for us is all over, and we woudl have to provide something of a reception, and we realize, a second wedding where no children will come of it is not such a big deal to celebrate publicly. We are in the autumn of our lives, even though its a new springtime for both of us, we will feel that spring newness together and thats more private than anything. It doesn’t need a party. We can celebrate with the people we love the rest of our lives, preferably celebrating *their *special occasions.

What means to us more than anything it receiving the Sacrament of Marriage, and there are not very many in our circle of family and close friends who realize what an amazing thing that is. We are thinking of taking a silent retreat at a nearby abbey for a few days before the marriage sacrament to be sure our hearts are ready when that time comes. Which we woudl now like to be practically immediately after annulments.

Then rather than spend money on an engagement ring and reception we can use some money for a modest week or two alone somewhere. Like a rustic efficiency cabin in a lovely spot.

Someone here said all we need is a priest and two witnesses.

Do you think they need to be special friends or just anybody like the church secretary or someone at Daily Mass? LOL. I just want to keep it all a secret like an eloping couple and come back and say, “Hi! We’re married!” His kids really know we want marraige and I have told my son and will have a talk with him before. But everyone else can wait till we come back married, IMO!

Thoughts?

 

[jmcrae]

I would say, take it one step at a time! You can start to plan the wedding once both of you have received your Declarations of Nullity and have been given permission to marry.

But yes - once you become free to marry, and once you have completed Marriage Preparation classes, you can get married on a weekday with two witnesses and a priest. Ideally the witnesses would be people who know you, but it is also technically possible for them to be the Church secretary and the janitor.

Good luck!

 

[Oh_Charlotte]

Yes, I know it seems like we are jumping the gun but the annulment process has been under way for at least 3 months now (after a couple months to get the requested info together before that). We are in love and we just can’t help that. Being in love and being committed to waiting properly as God expects us, all we can do is affirm our love, take joy in knowing each other, and plan as we are so moved. We cannot even think of the future without each other in it at this point, so we don’t, that’s all. We know that all hopes and plans are contingent on the Church saying we are free to marry. It is unlikely that we won’t get that, but we both know that it would be separation for us if the Church said no. We have very solid ground for annulments so it is not imprudent to expect a positive outcome. However if a no is in God’s plans, we would turn to Him for the graces to accept it at that time, but we certainly are not expecting that reversal.

Marriage prep classes?? Hmm. I wonder if just meeting with my pious and holy priest a time or two or three would do for my priest? I think both my sweetheart and I know well what is expected of a holy Catholic marraige. We both have an extensive knowledge of our faith and life commitment to it.

 

[EasterJoy]

When a couple is getting married and it is a first marriage for neither, it is generally not considered an “elopement” if they elect to have a very small wedding. If you were to tell the extended family that you planned to have a wedding with only your immediate family present (and perhaps a few friends you see very often), and then a summer trip later where you travel around to meet each other’s relatives, I don’t see how they can argue with that!

It is up to your pastor, however, how soon he will schedule your marriage ceremony after you have confirmed you are both free to marry. It is not as if you can show up in Las Vegas and find a priest ready to marry you at a quickie-wedding drive-through! You ought to talk to him about that part. He’ll help you sort it out on that end.

As for the retreats, maybe you’re ready for that part right now? Oh, and go through your stuff and get rid of what you don’t need or that you would rather some other family member guard as an “heirloom”, so you’re ready to combine households. Then repeat every five years or so. Wow, will your children thank you for that!!

 

[Regina_Love]

My brother did this with his second marriage. I was really bummed that we didn’t get to celebrate with him, and experience the two become one in the Marriage Sacrament.

I would have a simple wedding, and reception. Many people are touched by how beautiful the Mass is. It could plant a seed for conversion. I would at least do an invitation by an attractive e-mail, because of the short notice. Invite them to be present at the wedding. Have a small dessert reception at your home afterwards! I had friends volunteer as gifts to us to take pictures, film of wedding, do some flowers, and the cake!

The simplicity of your wedding, and the beauty of your love is a testimony to people! Our world needs more of this!

 

[Oh_Charlotte]

When a couple is getting married and it is a first marriage for neither, it is generally not considered an “elopement” if they elect to have a very small wedding. If you were to tell the extended family that you planned to have a wedding with only your immediate family present (and perhaps a few friends you see very often), and then a summer trip later where you travel around to meet each other’s relatives, I don’t see how they can argue with that!

Oh, I must have the word “elopement” wrong, that’s just what it feels like to me! Trouble is we are in two different states and people will have to travel. Two of my brothers live in far other states… its asking a lot of people. Then we need to provide a nice reception for their trouble. As much as I enjoy entertaining, that seems like another obstacle/hoop to jump through before we can be together, and a wedding/reception is not supposed to feel that way. Turns out we are both leaning toward just desire for the Sacrament, just what matters, no fuss at ALL. The Sacrament is SO MUCH bigger than any fuss we could make anyway. And yet, only one or two guests would share that knowledge with us.

It is up to your pastor, however, how soon he will schedule your marriage ceremony after you have confirmed you are both free to marry. It is not as if you can show up in Las Vegas and find a priest ready to marry you at a quickie-wedding drive-through! You ought to talk to him about that part. He’ll help you sort it out on that end.

LOL, Las Vegas wedding. Yuk, I hate that place. Sorry those of you from Vegas, I am sure there are good parts and I know God has not abandoned Las Vegas no matter if it seems so in movies and TV! But i never want to go there.

And I do want my very holy and pious priest who knows me to be the one and I will trust him with how soon he will schedule it. I am sure he would do it fast if we wanted and if he felt it was right to do so.

As for the retreats, maybe you’re ready for that part right now? Oh, and go through your stuff and get rid of what you don’t need or that you would rather some other family member guard as an “heirloom”, so you’re ready to combine households. Then repeat every five years or so. Wow, will your children thank you for that!!

Yes, maybe sooner. But we in two different states, and we are focusing on getting his house prepped for sale, making it very nice - a lot of work, when we are together, which is for small blocks of time, well-spaced. I have been helping him go through his stuff, so we have started the down-sizing.

Yes, I never wanted to leave a mess behind for others. I have cleaned up after others who passed, so I know what a burden it is, having borne it. I have already given away some of my grandmothers’ things to my nieces (I inherited a lot of nice things, more than I need, and could cut down more on pretty things that I should not keep just because they are pretty.) Getting rid of stuff and simplifying should not be hard with his help because we work amazing together. We hope for a simple life, and because of our plain happiness just being together, we hope that we will have more to give others and that we will serve loved ones (and strangers too) as a couple better because we find so much fulfillment in each other.

Thank you for the kind comments, EasterJoy!

 

[EasterJoy]

In the literal sense, to elope merely means to run away and to not come back. In wedding parlance, it usually means to run away and get married somewhere far removed from both your point of origin and your social circle, and without the knowledge of either. IOW, Romeo and Juliet did not elope, because they exchanged vows at their local church. I threw in Las Vegas tongue-in-cheek, because you cannot just show up in some priest’s parish and expect him to marry you on short notice, and Nevada is not an exception! Even when you’re older, it takes more time than that. If you have not done so already, it is worth talking to the pastor at the church you hope to marry at your earliest convenience. He’ll explain it all.

“As much as I enjoy entertaining, that seems like another obstacle/hoop to jump through before we can be together, and a wedding/reception is not supposed to feel that way”…where did you get that idea? That is exactly what wedding receptions feel like, when you’re trying to set one up. Why do you think eloping is so popular?

Sometimes you do these things because you’re joining two families, and not just two people, and you realize that people very close to you will want to be there. Since your in-laws are important to you, you jump through some hoops. OTOH, if you sense this will too hard on some of your relatives or you feel that, well, you’re not all that close, that is a good reason to keep it small.

Although the ideal is to at least have your siblings come (well, my siblings would think so!), you can have something very small with just the families of your children and the close friends who live in the same town as your wedding, with the plan to hit every family event you can as soon as you can after you marry. You want to make sure everyone in both families get to meet both of you as soon as possible, so you let them know that this is important to you. If nothing is coming up, then make some trips. If finances or health concerns preclude all of that, though, it can’t be helped. It is OK to make it very small and explain that you didn’t see any other way to avoid putting someone out who most definitely should NOT be allowed to be put out.

 

[JackieMom]

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but what if one or both of you are NOT granted a decree of nullity? I wouldn’t even think of dating, an engagement or marriage until the decree was in my hands. I think your enthusiasm is great and I’m glad you found such a lovely man, but you are still a married woman and your fiance has a wife.

 

[sojo]

Assuming the annulments come through, get thee to a priest and fast. He’ll be delighted to marry you quietly and immediately, I’m sure. I’ve heard of priests doing it in the rectory, or after hours in the Church (I’d ask for that, if possible myself, but its up to the priest).

It sounds like the folks handling your annulment are encouraging as to the particulars but best to keep any dating under control until you have a firm answer.

There is no Catholic requirement for a wedding (meaning folks attending the vows), nor a reception, nor a special dress or flowers or any of that.

It would be nice to have a picture taken, wear nice clothing, have a small bouquet or flower, and notify family and friends of your status with a picture – but even that is not required by the Church. The only requirement is to have those annulments in hand first.

God bless and I hope this all works out for you two!

 

[Sillara]

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but what if one or both of you are NOT granted a decree of nullity? I wouldn’t even think of dating, an engagement or marriage until the decree was in my hands. I think your enthusiasm is great and I’m glad you found such a lovely man, but you are still a married woman and your fiance has a wife.

This.

 

[Aggies08]

I’ve seen it done quickly and quietly at daily mass- usually older couples. They sit in the front, stand up for vows, and boom it’s done!

 

[1ke]

Yes, do go talk to your pastor about required marriage preparation. In my old diocese, they had three different formal programs-- one for never marrieds, one for those seeking convalidation, and one for those who had been previoulsy married and were remarrying (widowed or divorced/annulled). They did sacramental prep plus focused in on discussions relevant to that particular audience. It was a fairly substantial program.

In my current diocese, marriage prep is one program that all must attend. A one day retreat plus some meetings with the priest.

Your pastor will guide you on what is needed in your particular circumstance.

 

[JackieMom]

Yes, do go talk to your pastor about required marriage preparation. In my old diocese, they had three different formal programs-- one for never marrieds, one for those seeking convalidation, and one for those who had been previoulsy married and were remarrying (widowed or divorced/annulled). They did sacramental prep plus focused in on discussions relevant to that particular audience. It was a fairly substantial program.

In my current diocese, marriage prep is one program that all must attend. A one day retreat plus some meetings with the priest.

Your pastor will guide you on what is needed in your particular circumstance.

I think that if the OP does this, she should be mentally prepared for the pastor to inform her that neither she nor her boyfriend are free to be dating, much less engaged and planning a wedding.

 

[mcc804]

I third the warning about jumping into things before receiving the decree of nullity in not one but two marriages. Again, at this very moment, you two are both married to other people. You are not supposed to be in a “relationship” let alone calling yourself engaged and planning a wedding. I know this isn’t fun, but since you are a mature woman with life experience, you know that things don’t always go the way we want them to. Please be patient and use this time to increase your prayer and sacramental life in the Church.

For what it’s worth, I think it’s very appropriate for older people to marry quietly in the Church rectory with a couple of witnesses. I like the idea of a small bouquet, simple, elegant clothing and a photograph of the bride and groom. Send the photo out with a nice card to all those you care about and begin your married life with seriousness and gratitude for the responsibility God has given you for a second time.

No matter what happens, may God continue to be your Light and Inspiration.

 

[jmcrae]

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but what if one or both of you are NOT granted a decree of nullity? I wouldn’t even think of dating, an engagement or marriage until the decree was in my hands. I think your enthusiasm is great and I’m glad you found such a lovely man, but you are still a married woman and your fiance has a wife.

Or what if the Declaration of Nullity is given because one or both are incapable of contracting a valid marriage (for whatever reason), and one or both of them does not receive the Permission to Marry? That would also be a major disappointment - especially if you had already booked a honeymoon.

 

[Oh_Charlotte]

As to if the annulment won’t through, yes,one can never know for* sure*. But as I said, I rely on wise counsel from a strict priest, and should mention he is well-versed in canon law too.

When I got pregnant at 35 for the first and only time, I refused amniocentesis; I would face any problems at the time of the birth. Instead of worry, I would expect the best of God - I would expect Him to give me a healthy baby. This was not “name and and claim it” theology, but, I had to settle my mind and decided to go with joyful expectation of a healthy baby, and, if he turned out not to be, I would rely on God at that time to help me cope, with His graces.

I do the same now. I have very solid reason to expect both annulments. And I cannot help that I fell for someone a decade after my marraige officially ended and after nearly two decades of a very lonely, sad marriage.

Also, I know that God’s hand was in this, He made it very clear to me. It was not something I sought, but something that took me quite by surprise. I trust He would not allow this to happen to me for no reason. But since I can’t know His ways, I don’t rule out the completely unexpected happening, but like my pregnancy, i will expect the best from God, what seems reasonable to all my knowledge and my (very good) understanding of my Catholic faith, and if some other unforeseeable thing happens, I will at that time count on God to give me the graces to do the right thing in that circumstance.

Well, if anyone is interested I wrote about my overwhelming life-changing unexpected falling-in-love last year about this time. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=643407 Warning: its long! Since I had met him that previous October (after several years writing as strictly friends) I fell hard and sudden and though I did not see him from October to February, just after I wrote the above, I thought of him pretty constantly every single day. Whenever I was not immersed in work, that is. Every free moment. It really was just like I got pranked by Puck in Midsummer Night’s Dream.

I don’t think I mentioned that I was seriously considering being a nun when my son was settled in life (I was open to God’s direction in that, and would then pursue that, while I would never pursue finding a husband) and “Robert” had considered becoming a monk.

But when I met him, he felt, because of a series of unfortunate events, he was a “ruin”. Having just 2 days before been healed by God of all that was ruin in me, that did not seem a deterrent to me. Thought our love did not make sense in a worldly sense.

He is revived now a whole lot now. And getting some counsel for wisdom he needs on certain situations. And we are working on our practical challenges, planning logistics and finances. I had a few long visits at his place (we are in different states), and he had a long one here for the first time in December, with weeks and months in between visits, of phone and email. “Chaperoned” in our homes by our teen or adult children, whom we must set an example for and anyway we want to please God. We really love each other and we remind each other we are in this time of waiting because God wants it so.

Our love feels secure and less overwhelmingly crazy than it did when I wrote that last year.

For those who feel that I have jumped the gun on account of being “married” still to my ex who mistreated me all those years because he was not capable of relating normally, I think you don’t know as much as priests do about this. None have faulted me for being hit with unplanned feelings of strong love before I sought annulment. It surprised me, too – I thought I could “disallow” that possibly happening to me til my son was done with college and married! Plus I have almost completely no social life. I am a single Mom and *all *about my work and responsibility to parenting and care-taking. *God had another plan. * He is not faulting me for this that I did NOT seek. I know this, and I also know the priests would tell me if I was at fault, as I confess regularly.

We are not faulted for our feelings, friends - only what we do about our feelings. God was not angry at me one bit for not being able to get “Robert” off my mind after we met.

It is also not wrong for me to make plans for marrying Robert when we both 100% will do what the Church tells us to do, even in the very, very, slim chance we have to renounce each other forever because we cannot be annulled. IMO, its sort of like planning for a healthy child when you can’t know.

I do think my priest will marry us right away. When the annulment goes through, I don’t think he will feel we need excess time. I will go with what he says, knowing he is no softie but truly God-inspired and obedient to the Church.

I like the suggestion of a nice dress and a picture to share later, and to cherish ourselves. Not so much the encouragement to have guests or reception. Where to draw the line on the guest list, and my brothers are scattered - one 8 states away and another 10 states away! It is money to entertain out of town guests, even humbly, especially when they fly in from afar, and money very tight. We are going to work hard to build a simple security, but it will be require discipline. However, I do need to ask my son if he wants to be there. (Also he might not know!). And maybe Robert should ask his son and daughter, although, the adult daughter is overly-controlling, plus, has not been all that charitable about us, with a stark “Whats in it for me” viewpoint, so, not sure we want a decision put to her. Any thoughts on that? His kids would have to come from the next state, therefore need to be be put up, I assume… and we just want to keep this simple!

That’s my story and this is far too log for most people but some may be interested!

 

[agapewolf]

You have the wrong definiti

 

[agapewolf]

You have the wrong definitition of love. Love is not a feeling. What you are describing is infatuation. And you are assigning the source as GOD. Not good

Yes, you CAN help who you “fall in love” with… Because love is not an accident . It is a decision.

 

[Oh_Charlotte]

You have the wrong definitition of love. Love is not a feeling. What you are describing is infatuation. And you are assigning the source as GOD. Not good

Yes, you CAN help who you “fall in love” with… Because love is not an accident . It is a decision.

And I would say to you, because if a feeling of love is present, that does not mean it is not love, or that its only love its a purely logical unfeeling decision. Because there is feeling, does not mean there was no decision. There was a LOT of decision involved then and still. Yes, I got hit with a lot of feeling in the beginning, and sometimes that’s they way it works.

“Robert” would not describe his love in the same way, being a “thinking” type (I am “feeling” type). Thinking-Feeling types is a personality reality, and one type is not superior to the other.

You should read Song of Solomon sometime! Hard to deny feelings in that love.

I think when Saints fall into ecstasy in prayer there is feeling involved there too.

 

[agapewolf]

And I would say to you, because if a feeling of love is present, that does not mean it is not love, or that its only love its a purely logical unfeeling decision. Because there is feeling, does not mean there was no decision. There was a LOT of decision involved then and still. Yes, I got hit with a lot of feeling in the beginning, and sometimes that’s they way it works.

“Robert” would not describe his love in the same way, being a “thinking” type (I am “feeling” type). Thinking-Feeling types is a personality reality, and one type is not superior to the other.

You should read Song of Solomon sometime! Hard to deny feelings in that love.

I think when Saints fall into ecstasy in prayer there is feeling involved there too.

I know all about T/F and Song of Songs, thank you. I didn’t say feeling can’t be involved.

You, however, said several times that you didn’t have control over “falling in love” and assigning it to God’s providence. That is incorrect. God would NOT call you to “fall in love” when you are still married to someone else. To say that He did is accusing Him of promoting adultery, which is what this is.