What do you think of dalmatics for the diaconate that look identical to priestly chasubles?

[Phemie]

I haven’t ever seen a dalmatic that looked like a chasuble. I suppose at first glance it may be confusing, though.

My parish actually uses dalmatics at every Mass. I like them. I actually wish they would use them more often at my home parish. My dad is a deacon and has only worn a dalmatic a handful of times…when he was ordained, at his first Mass the day after, and at certain special Masses (wedding of his nephew, special diocesan Masses, etc.). But they are not really common in the rural area where I am originally from. In fact, probably the first time I ever saw a dalmatic was at my dad’s ordination!

I think the first time I saw a dalmatic was at an ordination in my parish about 12 years ago. We don’t have such a vestment in our vestment closet (nor do we have rose vestments for that matter) and had to borrow one from the Cathedral for our visiting transitional deacon to wear at the ordination.

Someone else made the point of many places not having deacons. In Canada I’ve found that you may see permanent deacons in major centers but they are rare in the average parish, to the point that PIP don’t know that the permanent diaconate even exists, thinking only of the diaconate as a step to the priesthood.

 

[Phemie]

The stole is different so I don’t see any cause for confusion.

But the stole is under the dalmatic so probably unseen. If the stole is a bit longer than the dalmatic but you don’t know that a deacon wears it diagonally across the body, rather than around the neck, then seeing both ends on one side is not really going to mean anything to you, even if you notice.

 

[FrDavid96]

That’s very interesting, so it’s not unique to my parish.

I don’t know that the dalmatics should be consistent with the chasuble? That seems to be what’s causing the concern to begin with.

By complementary (or as you wrote, consistent) that means that the vestments should ideally match each other. So, if the priest is wearing a light green chasuble, then the deacon should be wearing the same light green; as opposed to a dark green. This is about choosing the fabric.

This is not about enforcing any kind of actual rule. The vestments might not always match each other. It’s simply the fact that they look better when they do match, and can sometimes look awkward if they clash.

I do not want to make too much of this issue. So please understand that. My only purpose in this post is to explain the words here. It doesn’t mean that one can confuse a dalmatic for a chasuble; it does mean that the 2 vestments would ideally form a complete set.

 

[Solomonson]

The stole is different so I don’t see any cause for confusion.

When they’re wearing their stoles correctly (not always the case around here), they’re typically not visible.

The only time I see a stole over a dalamatic or chasuble around here is in a Byzantine Catholic parish or when certain, special priests are celebrating the Mass.

 

[Solomonson]

I think the first time I saw a dalmatic was at an ordination in my parish about 12 years ago. We don’t have such a vestment in our vestment closet (nor do we have rose vestments for that matter) and had to borrow one from the Cathedral for our visiting transitional deacon to wear at the ordination.

Someone else made the point of many places not having deacons. In Canada I’ve found that you may see permanent deacons in major centers but they are rare in the average parish, to the point that PIP don’t know that the permanent diaconate even exists, thinking only of the diaconate as a step to the priesthood.

We didn’t have deacons around here until fairly recently as we had no formation within the diocese. Now and again you’d see one at a funeral or wedding Mass. It was no big deal as their dalmatics were immediately identifiable as being dalmatics.

Then my parish received a couple of deacons and that changed.

 

[phil19034]

By complementary (or as you wrote, consistent) that means that the vestments should ideally match each other. So, if the priest is wearing a light green chasuble, then the deacon should be wearing the same light green; as opposed to a dark green. This is about choosing the fabric.

This is not about enforcing any kind of actual rule. The vestments might not always match each other. It’s simply the fact that they look better when they do match, and can sometimes look awkward if they clash.

I do not want to make too much of this issue. So please understand that. My only purpose in this post is to explain the words here. It doesn’t mean that one can confuse a dalmatic for a chasuble; it does mean that the 2 vestments would ideally form a complete set.

Father,
Do you think this might be the root issue why Deacons in so many parishes do not wear Dalmatics? Because they don’t have dalmatics that match the chasuble?

Or is it a way for the parish to make the Deacon seem more like a member of the parish community and less a part of the clergy?

 

[Ubenedictus]

Dalmatics are only really used for mass, just like a priest’s chasuble. In many cases, yes, the cut of the dalmatic is similar to the chasuble. However, this shouldn’t be a problem, because the priest and deacon both know their roles. And, if a layperson doesn’t know who the priest and deacon are at their parish for some reason, they should be able to tell by the differing roles that the priest and deacon play at mass.

So, for me, its not a big deal. I would be more concerned about deacons wearing clericals in daily life, since they are indistinguishable from priests. I’ve heard somewhere that in the US, there was talk about allowing grey clerical shirts for deacons only, so they can be distinguished from priests. This seems like a smart idea to me.

A deacon could look very much like a concelebrating priest sometimes…

 

[Vico]

When they’re wearing their stoles correctly (not always the case around here), they’re typically not visible.

The only time I see a stole over a dalamatic or chasuble around here is in a Byzantine Catholic parish or when certain, special priests are celebrating the Mass.

I see, the dalmatic is as long or longer than the stole then.

 

[ctb95]

A deacon could look very much like a concelebrating priest sometimes…

Indeed, but if the priest and deacon both know their roles, then what is the harm?

 

[FrDavid96]

Father,
Do you think this might be the root issue why Deacons in so many parishes do not wear Dalmatics? Because they don’t have dalmatics that match the chasuble?

I rather doubt it. As I said earlier, the idea that they match is just a matter of “it looks better that way.” It’s not an essential value to be upheld.

The only element that truly needs to match is the liturgical color itself. If the priest wears red, the deacon must wear red (because the same rule applies to both); but there’s no rule that it must be the same shade of red, or the same fabric, or anything else.

So, to your question, I doubt that someone would say that an alb & stole is somehow a better match to the priest’s chasuble, or looks better than say a dalmatic of a different shade or fabric.

Or is it a way for the parish to make the Deacon seem more like a member of the parish community and less a part of the clergy?

I think that’s sometimes the reason. There are others I’ve encountered. Some priests simply reject the idea of vestments period. There are still some priests who celebrate the Mass wearing just an alb and stole, and many who would do so in street clothes if they thought they could get away with it.

Yes, there are some who want the deacon to look as much like the EMHCs as possible.

Sometimes it’s a matter of not being willing to spend the money…and sometimes that’s just an excuse.

There are a lot of reasons out there. Personally, I think that most of the time, those reasons are just excuses for some other underlying thinking.

 

[FrDavid96]

A deacon could look very much like a concelebrating priest sometimes…

Only to a certain extent.

That only applies with regard to what the deacon is wearing.

The actual function of both orders is such that there’s really no confusing the two.

 

[Gorgias]

Really?

At diocesan Masses at the cathedral, when they break out the dalmatics they keep there, sure. But, my observation is that, at most parish Masses in the diocese, that’s not the case – “alb and stole” seems the standard. (Sure, there are parishes that have bought dalmatics for their deacons… but that doesn’t seem to be typical. Maybe it’s a generational thing, either on the part of deacons or their pastors?)