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marymary1975
Guest
Hmmm I don’t know if you are asking this from a theological standpoint but I will answer to you from a theological standpoint. When God creates first humans he made them out out of a different nature. God made humans sinless, and he gave them eternal life; he didn’t made humans homosexuals, sin didn’t exist and there was no disease, death or anything. God gave them free will. Through their own free will humans decided to break from God and disobey God. God gave them a warning not to disobey but despite the warning humans decides to break with God. In consequence of this break up death entered into the human nature: disease entered our nature, sin entered our nature and pain entered our nature. So God doesn’t make people homosexual. It is a consequence of our fallen nature in the same way as any other sin. God doesn’t make anyone a sinner. We have a fallen nature and we have a tendency to sin, ones may have a tendency to homosexuality, others maybe will have a tendency to promiscuity, others may have a tendency to premarital sex,others may have a tendency to hate, others may have a tendency to steal, others may have a tendency to revenge, etc. Etc. So no, God did not made anyone homosexual and God does expect from everybody to not act on any sinful tendency, including homosexuality.
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Rau
Guest
You start with a presumption that God “makes” people homosexual. I guess by that you mean it is genetic? This may or may not be so - there is no generally accepted answer as to what causes or “determines” homosexuality (or bisexuality for that matter). I know there is also a view that various environmental factors may affect the development of the child’s sexuality in the womb. In either case, we must admit that God allows these situations to arise, and, in the case of homosexuality, they cause desire to engage in masturbation and in same sex sex acts.
God also allows heterosexuality, and this leads to a desire to masturbate, and to engage in sex acts with the opposite sex.
So, why does God allow all manner of desires (and other temptations) to afflict us, but ask us to remain true to his teaching? We each find ourselves at times in circumstances where what may seem a natural response is not right. Our pre-dispositions don’t determine what is right.
I don’t know the mind of God, but I do know this is the world we live in. We are not all equally lucky. For some, life is harder than for others. God allows this. Temptations exist, and we have free will, to choose to partake or not.
I would be grateful if you would now be prepared to answer my question:
What do you believe in respect of the single (heterosexual) person who ‘suffers’ the attractions and the urges, but does not find a spouse? Should they be expected to go without sex, despite their God-given desires?
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
The sad part of this whole thread is that we are even talking about same-sex relations as if it was a legitimate subject of debate. Fifty years ago, before moral relativism had seized the front center stage, if you had said you planned to marry another man, you would have been given some medication or put in a lunatic asylum. That’s how far we have dropped off the moral map.
I think our culture is fairly insane, and the lunatics are running the asylum.
I think our culture is fairly insane, and the lunatics are running the asylum.
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Publisher
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InSearchofGrace
Guest
You bring in God – He does not approve of active homosexuality. Please don’t say you hold the light for many here at CAF. This is a Catholic site, with Catholics holding Truth to be eternal and unchanging. Society of Friends and other denominations also believed in the wrongness of expressed homosexuality in line with Scripture before, until they departed from teaching to accommodate the demands of its homosexual members.Great to have celebrity…even at CAF.
There is no “rationalizing” on my part. I accept whatever judgement you wish to attach to my beliefs and reasons.
You don’t know me from Adam… But God does…so we’re good friend, part of my day is spent holding in the Light many here at CAF.
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
Many Catholics have departed from Catholic teaching also.
I call it the Vichy Syndrome.
Or you might call it the Trojan Horse Syndrome.
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InSearchofGrace
Guest
True, with the help of dissident Catholic theologians, priests and religious even. It is very sad. But unlike Quakers and other Protestant sects, the Magisterium is not changing the teaching on homosexuality in order to keep its members or to ride the wave of spreading error among Catholics, what is becoming popular in western culture.
Homosexuality remains as a disorder, a sin when acted on.
It is not easy to be unaffected by the culture. A practicing and faithful Catholic is counter cultural, how a first century Christian must have lived and felt. Our Pope Emeritus is right, we have to prepare to be a leaner Church. In reading numerous posts in this forum by members who claim to be followers of Christ, the tares among the wheat are making themselves visible and heard.
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
The defection of European Catholics is even more alarming. What’s striking, though, is that the defection includes Protestants losing their own traditions that they had inherited from the Catholics.
I think there are three principal reasons for this.
I think there are three principal reasons for this.
- The catechesis of the young has been pathetically ineffectual. This could be blamed on a number of things, but mostly the growth of rebellious priests and teachers of the catechism who have rode the wave of moral relativism as far as they could ride it without getting kicked out of the Church.
- The overpowering influence of the media and academia that are controlled by enemies of God and the Church. This influence is self conscious of its power to the extent that every opportunity is taken to criticize the Church and hardly any opportunity is ever taken to note the works of the Church.
- The agencies of government worldwide are reluctant to honor Christian traditions and values, and often work directly to oppose them. You would not sense that today, looking at the schools, the media and government, that Christianity was any longer a major force in Western Civilization.
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livingwordunity
Guest
I agree with what the Catholic Church teaches about it. That’s what I think about it.
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Missian_Alyssa
Guest
Hi, what is your proof that it is in the genes? Have you read the German Journals on any studies you are depending on? US press tends to get everything wrong.
We are born with “original sin” — I don’t think God wants us to act on that.
also, from a stand point of evolution it makes no sense for a gay gene to appear this late in the development of mankind – survival of fitness of heterosexual genes would push out homosexual genes long ago.
Gal 5
I say, then: live by the Spirit and you will certainly not gratify the desire of the flesh.
For the flesh has desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you may not do what you want. But if you are guided by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are obvious: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, rivalry, jealousy, outbursts of fury, acts of selfishness, dissensions, factions, occasions of envy,* drinking bouts, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. In contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ [Jesus] have crucified their flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also follow the Spirit. Let us not be conceited, provoking one another, envious of one another.
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Missian_Alyssa
Guest
ah, you have not proved that God made them gay.
We all inherit original sin, that does not mean we are to live our lives that way.
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Missian_Alyssa
Guest
You said it better than I could. If he is referring to “studies”, I wonder if he read rest of the story on those studies? in the US we only hear sound bites without any substance. In German Science Journals they review those studies and show that such does not pass muster.
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Missian_Alyssa
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Rau
Guest
The answer to my question, which you and I know, is “yes”. Mulligan knows it too. He should then understand that a person with homosexual attractions might perhaps be called to chastity.
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Rau
Guest
To clarify, homosexual “acts” (including lust) are sinful, not the attractions.
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