What do you think of marrying for this reason?

[Schieffelin]

First some context. My DH’s teenage sister got pregnant last year and needless to say it’s caused plenty of drama in the family. Her mom (my MIL) freaked out and was pushing for abortion because she knew the bulk of the responsibility for raising the child would fall to her and her life is already very difficult as it is. Fortunately my husband intervened and was able to calm every one down and they kept the baby. I originally thought adoption was the way to go but everyone was dead set against that.

Fast forward to today and they have a healthy sweet little boy 4 months old. Both families have been supportive and the two teenagers have been as good of parents as could be expected. But the current situation is that MIL has forced SIL to get an IUD because she knows the teenagers still mess around sometimes. MIL is also constantly putting the pressure on for these two to get married. She’s the sort of person who thinks that would “make things honest” so to speak.

My opinion is that if you pressure two immature teenagers to get married then they will likely end up divorced a few years later. I think maybe shotgun weddings worked back in the day when divorce wasn’t so easy and you were forced to work things out. Do I have it wrong? Should I be encouraging them to get married–for the sake of the child?

 

[1ke]

You should be encouraging them to DISCERN marriage, with the help of a holy priest. Coercion invalidates an attempt at marriage. The priest would have to be convinced this was of their own volition and that they were ready/able to marry validly.

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

My opinion is that if you pressure two immature teenagers to get married then they will likely end up divorced a few years later. I think maybe shotgun weddings worked back in the day when divorce wasn’t so easy and you were forced to work things out. Do I have it wrong? Should I be encouraging them to get married–for the sake of the child?

1. 
   *]How old is the couple?
   *]How much education do they have?
   *]How much is their combined income?
   *]Do they have similar life goals?
   *]Besides the sexual attraction, what other common interests do they share?
   
   Shotgun weddings didn’t work back on the day; they led to all sorts of problems: adultery, spousal violence, and spousal abandonment were a few of the biggies. When couples had few options, working things out too often mean that half of the couple ended up with a black eye, broken rib, or in a coffin.
   
   Luna

 

[Allegra]

Pressuring these two children to marry each other is a bad idea, in my opinion. It would probably have a low chance of working out if they wanted to get married in the first place. It has nearly no chance of working if they are coerced into it. If we are going to teach our youth that marriage is a serious covenant between two people and God, how can we possibly condone an idea such as, “Well, get married and try it out for the sake of your baby?” This sort of notion only cheapens marriage further. The baby is here. He has a mother and a father that are both children. Adding a shot at marriage to the situation isn’t going to make them more responsible or better parents. My advice to this young couple would be to stop fornicating and focus on being good parents to their child and completing their education.

 

[Vincent1984]

Shotgun weddings didn’t work back on the day; they led to all sorts of problems: adultery, spousal violence, and spousal abandonment were a few of the biggies. When couples had few options, working things out too often mean that half of the couple ended up with a black eye, broken rib, or in a coffin.

I work in a diocesan marriage tribunal. Some days it seems like a third or a half of all the cases I see are couples who got married ‘back in the day’ because the woman was pregnant. Obviously from my perspective, I only see the ones that fell apart, not the ones that eventually worked. But there are plenty that fell apart!

The young couple should focus on being stable parents first. If their relationship is able to weather this storm, maybe they can think about marriage themselves in the future.

Your MIL sounds like she’s making a bad situation, worse.

 

[Schieffelin]

1. 
   *]How old is the couple?
   *]How much education do they have?
   *]How much is their combined income?
   *]Do they have similar life goals?
   *]Besides the sexual attraction, what other common interests do they share?
   
   Shotgun weddings didn’t work back on the day; they led to all sorts of problems: adultery, spousal violence, and spousal abandonment were a few of the biggies. When couples had few options, working things out too often mean that half of the couple ended up with a black eye, broken rib, or in a coffin.
   
   Luna

1. 
   Sorry everyone, that I’m just now getting back to the thread. Here are the answers to your questions Luna
   -they are 17 and 18 years old
   -the mom just finished high school and the dad will finish this year (they both intend to go to college)
   -I don’t think either one of them is currently working
   -I don’t know what other interests they share. They do seem to care about each other and they do come from similar backgrounds. I can tell they’re not together just because of the baby. (Still doesn’t mean they’re ready for marriage though)

 

[Schieffelin]

Thanks for the responses. You’ve all pretty much affirmed what I was thinking on the subject. I’ve had some good friends tell me that the boy should have to own up to his actions and get married and be forced to take care of the girl and child. That’s why I wanted to ask you all and make sure that I was right to think they shouldn’t get married right now. Then again there are a whole bunch of “shouldn’ts” go on in this situation

 

[lizaanne]

If THEY decide to get married, even if it’s 10 years from now, then wonderful. They will have discerned it THEMSELVES, and not just married because they were told to. I think a family is always better with a married mother and father to parent the children, but sadly that’s not always the case. And mashing it together just so it “looks right” is not enough, and it’s not right, and it will do no one any benefit in the long run. That is a free ticket to divorce court for sure.

~Liza

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

Sorry everyone, that I’m just now getting back to the thread. Here are the answers to your questions Luna
-they are 17 and 18 years old
-the mom just finished high school and the dad will finish this year (they both intend to go to college)
-I don’t think either one of them is currently working
-I don’t know what other interests they share. They do seem to care about each other and they do come from similar backgrounds. I can tell they’re not together just because of the baby. (Still doesn’t mean they’re ready for marriage though)

So they’re unemployed teenagers, one of whom is still in high school. While it’s nice that the genuinely care for one another, the situation you’ve presented isn’t the recipe for a successful marriage. Not in 2012.

My :twocents: is they should focus on being the best parents they can to their child and on finishing their educations to they can support the child through to his/her adulthood. The mother, who I assume is the custodial parent, should also have parenting and child support agreements on file with the courts in the event that she and her boyfriend do not last as a couple. It’s best to have these things worked through when they’re getting along instead of it turning into a bitter dog fight if their relationship goes south.

Luna

 

[mandajane]

Sorry everyone, that I’m just now getting back to the thread. Here are the answers to your questions Luna
-they are 17 and 18 years old
-the mom just finished high school and the dad will finish this year (they both intend to go to college)
-I don’t think either one of them is currently working
-I don’t know what other interests they share. They do seem to care about each other and they do come from similar backgrounds. I can tell they’re not together just because of the baby. (Still doesn’t mean they’re ready for marriage though)

These were my parents when I was born.

Their family conned them into marrying each other just before my birth so it’d be “honest” My little brother was born a year later.

My father ran off with my babysitter the day she turned 18, when I was 4 years old, because he couldn’t handle my mother, or the responsibility. He stopped seeing my brother and I, because my stepmother didn’t want stepchildren.

I’m almost 27 and haven’t seen my father in over 20 years.

Forcing them to get married “for the baby” is a bad idea.

 

[faithfully]

Well, it does sound as though the two teens are more mature than MIL. Even THEY don’t want to get married. Two wrongs never make a right.

When you use the word PRESSURE it should be clear that it’s wrong. Marriage is to be between two consenting ADULTS! One of which is not even of legal age, and sounds as though it’s the boy? Whose parents would have to agree to let them marry.

Now, I do know a couple who managed to get PG in high school, who married, and WOW they are still married some 20 years later, with 2 extra kids.

If anything, I would encourage a long engagement. Perhaps 2 years. Something that shows commitment, but not utter stupidity.

 

[Chochy]

Dear Ones,

I agree with the responses to the question, and have another question. Are the parents of this infant currently living apart? I ask the question, because it seems to be getting to be “normal” for the “boyfriend” to move into the home to live with the “girlfriend” and the child. I think that is a very poor choice, but wonder if marriage, in these instances wouldn’t be better, since they are cohabitating with one another anyway.

The young couple find themselves pregnant, get all kinds of support, and have too few consequences to having a child out of wedlock. If families are willing to support the unmarried parents, what’s wrong with offering the same support to a married couple. I feel we have gone too far in the opposite direction. Not all necessary marriages in the past went wrong.

Blessings - Chochy

 

[faithfully]

Dear Ones,

I agree with the responses to the question, and have another question. Are the parents of this infant currently living apart? I ask the question, because it seems to be getting to be “normal” for the “boyfriend” to move into the home to live with the “girlfriend” and the child. I think that is a very poor choice, but wonder if marriage, in these instances wouldn’t be better, since they are cohabitating with one another anyway.

The young couple find themselves pregnant, get all kinds of support, and have too few consequences to having a child out of wedlock. If families are willing to support the unmarried parents, what’s wrong with offering the same support to a married couple. I feel we have gone too far in the opposite direction. Not all necessary marriages in the past went wrong.

Blessings - Chochy

Marriage should not be a CONSEQUENCE of stupidty or sins. Kids make mistakes.

We should support our KIDS when they make mistakes. Especially when they make such BIG ones. Their consequence is life time parenthood. They should be supported in being the best parents they can be. Without knowing these teens, you can not assume the best parents they can be are married.

Further, most preists will not even consider “shot gun” marriages as they are absolutely grounds for annullment. When a person is not allowed to FREELY make the choice to get married we mock the institution of marriage. They may as well be Catholic and go for just a civil, non recognized marriage. Which really is no different than just living together. Isn’t it?

Since this couple did infact create a child, they should take very seriously the disernment of marriage between themselves. They should then move on with what they believe to be GOOD decisions. They should seek guidance from responsible adults (not a mom trying to force them to marry), a priest, and perhaps a marriage counselor.

In no way should they be required to continue to make bad choices for themselves and no their child.

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

Dear Ones,

I agree with the responses to the question, and have another question. Are the parents of this infant currently living apart? I ask the question, because it seems to be getting to be “normal” for the “boyfriend” to move into the home to live with the “girlfriend” and the child. I think that is a very poor choice, but wonder if marriage, in these instances wouldn’t be better, since they are cohabitating with one another anyway.

The young couple find themselves pregnant, get all kinds of support, and have too few consequences to having a child out of wedlock. If families are willing to support the unmarried parents, what’s wrong with offering the same support to a married couple. I feel we have gone too far in the opposite direction. Not all necessary marriages in the past went wrong.

Blessings - Chochy

One of the parents is still a legal minor, the other has been of legal majority for less than a year. Neither has a job. Neither as of yet has furthered their education beyond high school. In fact, one of the parents is still in high school.

Is this couple positioned to for a successful marriage at this point in their lives? This is 2012; we’re no longer living in 1942 so it’s really no use discussing what people used to do. In my opinion their marrying now would only take one error of judgement (getting pregnant while unmarried and still a teenager) and compound it with another error in judgement (marrying while in high school with no job or marketable educational qualifications).

If the families want to support these young parents, they can and should encourage and assist them in furthering their educations so they’re employable in today’s world. They can model good and responsible parenting behaviors. They can babysit so the parents can go to school or work. They can help out with diapers and clothing and toys and baby paraphernalia. They can make sure the child’s legal rights are protected vis-a-vis child support. The can educate the child in the Faith. None of this predicates these young parents (and they’re still kids, make no mistake) get married.

Marriage should not used as a consequence (e.g. punishment) for falling pregnant. In fact, their priest could very well refuse to marry them if he catches wind that he’s being asked to witness what’s otherwise known as a shotgun wedding. A couple wishing to marry must approach the Church of their own free will, not as a consequence of immoral behavior, and not under pressure from their parents or anyone else in their families.

Luna

 

[Chochy]

One of the parents is still a legal minor, the other has been of legal majority for less than a year. Neither has a job. Neither as of yet has furthered their education beyond high school. In fact, one of the parents is still in high school.

Is this couple positioned to for a successful marriage at this point in their lives? This is 2012; we’re no longer living in 1942 so it’s really no use discussing what people used to do. In my opinion their marrying now would only take one error of judgement (getting pregnant while unmarried and still a teenager) and compound it with another error in judgement (marrying while in high school with no job or marketable educational qualifications).

If the families want to support these young parents, they can and should encourage and assist them in furthering their educations so they’re employable in today’s world. They can model good and responsible parenting behaviors. They can babysit so the parents can go to school or work. They can help out with diapers and clothing and toys and baby paraphernalia. They can make sure the child’s legal rights are protected vis-a-vis child support. The can educate the child in the Faith. None of this predicates these young parents (and they’re still kids, make no mistake) get married.

Marriage should not used as a consequence (e.g. punishment) for falling pregnant. In fact, their priest could very well refuse to marry them if he catches wind that he’s being asked to witness what’s otherwise known as a shotgun wedding. A couple wishing to marry must approach the Church of their own free will, not as a consequence of immoral behavior, and not under pressure from their parents or anyone else in their families.

Luna

A response to Faithfully and Luna Lovecraft,

I said that I agreed with the responses. I completely agree that parents should support their “kids” who make mistakes. I’m not suggesting that parents force the young parents into marriage. I’m sorry if I came across that way. That would be just as wrong today, as it was in the past. I just think that the support they receive, can very well include encouragement towards marriage at some point, and that doesn’t seem to happen anymore. (At least not in the situations that I know of.

I guess I just believe that becoming the best parent you can be, includes being a married couple. Without that commitment to one another, it’s too easy to move onto someone else, creating all kinds of blended families. I know you don’t want to talk about what people used to do, however I know many families who’s parents married because a child was on the way. Their families don’t seem any different than my own. Perhaps I just know the lucky ones.

Blessings - Chochy

 

[Ancient1]

Frankly, I am the lone dissenter. They had a baby. They refused to give it up for adoption to a married, Catholic, successful and secure couple who would give it a decent home. So they must give it a home - NOT their parents (baby’s grandparents).

They are essentially adults if she can get an IUD and they are having sex. I don’t give a darn if their marriage is happy or not. Like most marriages, at any age, it’s mostly a gamble, and a matter of attitude and devotion. THE BABY COMES FIRST, not some romantic notion of marital bliss. Their first obligation is to their child, not their personal happiness.

Of course they should marry. They are obligated to marry. Immediately. That baby deserves a mother, a father, and a home. Right now it has none of the above. Right now it has a slut, a statutory rapist and no home of its own.

The longer this persists, the LESS likely they are to marry, and guess what, I’d bet money she will get pregnant again, then it’s welfare…etc. That’s what you get for keeping them children. They had a baby, they are no longer children. Marry and take responsibility. The mother is right.

 

[Dixie23]

I post about marriage, canon law, or sacraments I am talking about Latin Rite only, not the Orthodox and Eastern Rites. These are exceptions that confuse the issue and I am not talking about those. http://www.infoocean.info/avatar4.jpg

 

[Schieffelin]

Frankly, I am the lone dissenter. They had a baby. They refused to give it up for adoption to a married, Catholic, successful and secure couple who would give it a decent home. So they must give it a home - NOT their parents (baby’s grandparents).

They are essentially adults if she can get an IUD and they are having sex. I don’t give a darn if their marriage is happy or not. Like most marriages, at any age, it’s mostly a gamble, and a matter of attitude and devotion. THE BABY COMES FIRST, not some romantic notion of marital bliss. Their first obligation is to their child, not their personal happiness.

Of course they should marry. They are obligated to marry. Immediately. That baby deserves a mother, a father, and a home. Right now it has none of the above. **Right now it has a slut, a statutory rapist and no home of its own. **

The longer this persists, the LESS likely they are to marry, and guess what, I’d bet money she will get pregnant again, then it’s welfare…etc. That’s what you get for keeping them children. They had a baby, they are no longer children. Marry and take responsibility. The mother is right.

Wow, I would definitely appreciate you not talking about my family this way. It’s extremely uncharitable and does nothing to further the discussion.

 

[faithfully]

They are essentially adults if she can get an IUD and they are having sex. I don’t give a darn if their marriage is happy or not. Like most marriages, at any age, it’s mostly a gamble, and a matter of attitude and devotion. THE BABY COMES FIRST, not some romantic notion of marital bliss. Their first obligation is to their child, not their personal happiness.

Of course they should marry. They are obligated to marry. Immediately. That baby deserves a** mother, a father, and a home**. Right now it has none of the above. Right now it has a slut, a statutory rapist and no home of its own.

First of all IT is a BOY!

You know, the word “damn” is used in the bible. The words “slut”. pretty sure it is not.

Are you afraid to use the word damn? Or that you might offend? But not afraid to call a young misguided woman a slut? Regardless of offense. A slut by defination would be a girl or woman who sleeps around. Has multiple partners, etc. There is NO indication this young woman has done that. They made a bad choice. They do not owe a married Catholic couple their baby. Nor do they have to jump into marriage, if it proves to be a further bad choice. Children deserve the best loving scenario possible.

Mother and father are not defined by marital status. Or does a child lose his/her mother and father should they divorce? They are now orphans?

Children do not have a home of their own. They can not legally own such a home. Home is were you make it. Again, go to the divorced couple. Can a child have two homes? What are the rules? Per you.

Finally, if you had paid attention you would realize the young woman is the oldest one in this scenario. And since she’s 18, now with a 4 month old, surely you can do the math and realize they were both were easily under age at the time of conception. Even if she turned 18 on the same day of conception.

With 40 weeks of PG + 16 weeks of child age = conception was most likely 56 weeks or rather 1 year 4 weeks ago. And she’s not 19 yet, so that buys time in the case of viable premie birth as well. One should NOT assume statutory rape. One should not assume a criminal without absolute fact. And there is certainly enough room here to assume both parties were under age at the time of conception.

Furthermore here’s a better understanding of stat. rape: “Most states do not refer specifically to statutory rape; instead they use designations such as sexual assault and sexual abuse to identify prohibited activity. Regardless of the designation, these crimes are based on the premise that until a person reaches a certain age, he is legally incapable of consenting to sexual intercourse. Thus, instead of including force as a criminal element, theses crimes make it illegal for anyone to engage in sexual intercourse with anyone below a certain age, other than his spouse. The age of consent varies by state, with most states, including Connecticut, setting it at age 16. The age of consent in other states ranges from ages 14 to 18. Some states base the penalty for violations on the age of the offender, with older offenders receiving harsher penalties. For example, California, Maryland, Missouri, Nevada, and New York reserve their harshest statutory rape penalty for offenders who are age 21 or older”

From here: cga.ct.gov/2003/olrdata/jud/rpt/2003-r-0376.htm which is a 2003 report.

Try not to show you represent our Catholic faith by talking about humans who made a mistake as if they are just simply trash and showing you can’t even add in effort to also insinuate one is a criminal. Do unto others, and thou shalt not bear false witness and all!

 

[faithfully]

What I said:

…
Since this couple did infact create a child, they should take very seriously the disernment of marriage between themselves. They should then move on with what they believe to be GOOD decisions. They should seek guidance from responsible adults (not a mom trying to force them to marry), a priest, and perhaps a marriage counselor.

In no way should they be required to continue to make bad choices for themselves and no their child.

…
I guess I just believe that becoming the best parent you can be, includes being a married couple. Without that commitment to one another, it’s too easy to move onto someone else, creating all kinds of blended families. I know you don’t want to talk about what people used to do, however I know many families who’s parents married because a child was on the way. Their families don’t seem any different than my own. Perhaps I just know the lucky ones.

Blessings - Chochy

While I agree a married couple who are infact committed to each is ideal for children to grow up with, and further they are more free to look to greener pastures, You can’t assume the committment is really there or will be created by a ring and ceremony.

This is why I said, YES, since they put the cart before the horse, they ought to consider moving the horse up front. But go ahead and make sure it’s a fairly healthy horse, with a probablity of carrying the load. And while we’re at it, let’s not load their cart on train tracks and hope that a train doesn’t crush them instead of pushing them gently forward.

They should very much discern marriage. They should go back to what all of us are required to do prior to mariage. Go through the counseling. Learn what is expected. Go into it educated. Or perhaps learn that one mistake is plenty. And be grateful this mistake results in a beautiful child and not a nasty divorce.