What do you think of men who want a submissive wife?

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Xantippe said:
"What if he wanted bacon everyday? What if he wanted Coke to wash it down with, every single meal? And what if he were 350 pounds? Should she be serving it to him? What if he decided he wanted to finish everything off with coconut cream pie all the time?

“Obviously not. And so therefore women are supposed to use our brains.”

It wouldn’t be loving to “submissively” enable a morbidly obese husband with meals that are going to send him to an early grave.
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To those who are just posting Bible verses and other quotes to back up your stance, I’d appreciate it if you could discuss how you think “wifely submission” works in practice.

What about the example above, of a morbidly obese husband who demands unhealthy meals. Do you think a wife with such a husband should indeed keep preparing meals that he wants as if she is a short-order cook in some greasy spoon diner? If not, how do you see her dealing with this?
 
ToeInTheWater said:
To those who are just posting Bible verses and other quotes to back up your stance, I’d appreciate it if you could discuss how you think “wifely submission” works in practice.

What about the example above, of a morbidly obese husband who demands unhealthy meals. Do you think a wife with such a husband should indeed keep preparing meals that he wants as if she is a short-order cook in some greasy spoon diner? If not, how do you see her dealing with this?
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Near the end of the book of 1 Samuel, a story emerges, a beautiful one of submission and deliverance. Abigail is a lesser-known heroine in the Bible, a humble woman who was married to a wealthy scoundrel. Abigail combined her wisdom with her wealth to appear before an approaching enemy to plead for the safety of her husband’s household. But the story of Abigail started long before her brave encounter with David. It began with the death of Samuel, the prophet of God.
 
Abigail was a noble wife and her husband,was a person who was slothy and did gluttony.
Her husband demanded her food for him,Abigail was noble she did not refuse she was submissive even though she was smarter,even thou she had the chances to rebel,but she did not,latter God sorted her problem’s out.

When Abigail saw David, without a word, she fell on her face before him, bowing herself to the ground. Falling at his feet, Abigail delivered the most humble, heartfelt plea for David to spare her husband’s household. But her request was not made from a heart of fear, nor was it from a heart of anger toward her husband. Rather, while she admitted that her husband was a man of bad character, she reminded David that his life was in the hands of God. His enemies would be destroyed because of God’s justice, and his own house would endure. She only asked in return that, when God had fulfilled everything He had promised, that David remember her.
 
hesso12 said:
Near the end of the book of 1 Samuel, a story emerges, a beautiful one of submission and deliverance. Abigail is a lesser-known heroine in the Bible, a humble woman who was married to a wealthy scoundrel. Abigail combined her wisdom with her wealth to appear before an approaching enemy to plead for the safety of her husband’s household. But the story of Abigail started long before her brave encounter with David. It began with the death of Samuel, the prophet of God.
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Please give an example of what wifely submission looks like, as in daily life, here in 2015. Please share how that works in your marriage.
 
LightBound said:
Please give an example of what wifely submission looks like, as in daily life, here in 2015. Please share how that works in your marriage.
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A wife shows submission unto her husband when she allows him to take leadership in the relationship. His position as leader is biblical (1 Corinthians 11:3). Abraham’s wife, Sarah, is an example of a woman following her husband’s lead (1 Peter 3:6). Sarah has never been confused with being a woman who was a frail doormat. Peter notes that she was not afraid in life. Submission should not be confused with a person being weak.

Women are not commanded to submit to their husband’s because God insures that men will be just or loving. When a woman submits unto her husband, she is actually submitting unto God (Ephesians 5:22). A woman therefore does not submit because her husband deserves it in his own merit- she submits because she knows it is pleasing to her Lord. There will be times when a woman needs to submit, and her husband does not deserve it from a human perspective. But by divine right, God set the man as leader and a woman can trust that God is good. She can also know that nothing escapes God’s notice, and a wicked man will be held accountable for his actions.

When a wife submits to her husband, she does not try to take leadership from him. From the beginning of time, woman has tried to take leadership from the man- and man has often gladly given it away (Genesis 3). Some scholars believe that Genesis 3:16 refers to Eve’s new sin drive to override her husband’s headship, which has continued down the line of women. Women use many tactics to try taking control of leadership, including nagging, deception, and manipulation. This always results in sin and often, sorrowful consequences (Genesis 27). When a woman resorts to these tactics, she is trying to usurp God’s good design of relationship roles. A submissive wife must first learn to trust God’s goodness and His sovereignty.
 
However, a submissive wife is not relegated to idly sitting by while her husband makes all the family decisions. In a healthy marriage, husband and wife work as a team. When a decision cannot be jointly agreed upon, the leader makes it, knowing he is responsible foremost unto God for that decision. In these circumstances or in a decision that the husband must make alone, a submissive wife is not overstepping her boundaries by offering counsel. She must learn to do it in a way that shows respect for his God-given position as head of the family. A submissive woman also offers abundant encouragement, understanding that making decisions is a heavy responsibility on a man’s shoulders.
 
hesso12 said:
A wife shows submission unto her husband when she allows him to take leadership in the relationship. His position as leader is biblical (1 Corinthians 11:3). Abraham’s wife, Sarah, is an example of a woman following her husband’s lead (1 Peter 3:6). Sarah has never been confused with being a woman who was a frail doormat. Peter notes that she was not afraid in life. Submission should not be confused with a person being weak.

Women are not commanded to submit to their husband’s because God insures that men will be just or loving. When a woman submits unto her husband, she is actually submitting unto God (Ephesians 5:22). A woman therefore does not submit because her husband deserves it in his own merit- she submits because she knows it is pleasing to her Lord. There will be times when a woman needs to submit, and her husband does not deserve it from a human perspective. But by divine right, God set the man as leader and a woman can trust that God is good. She can also know that nothing escapes God’s notice, and a wicked man will be held accountable for his actions.

When a wife submits to her husband, she does not try to take leadership from him. From the beginning of time, woman has tried to take leadership from the man- and man has often gladly given it away (Genesis 3). Some scholars believe that Genesis 3:16 refers to Eve’s new sin drive to override her husband’s headship, which has continued down the line of women. Women use many tactics to try taking control of leadership, including nagging, deception, and manipulation. This always results in sin and often, sorrowful consequences (Genesis 27). When a woman resorts to these tactics, she is trying to usurp God’s good design of relationship roles. A submissive wife must first learn to trust God’s goodness and His sovereignty.
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I don’t think you understand what I’m asking- please give some examples in daily life of how your wife submits to you…does she ask you for permission to do things? Does she wait for you to give her directions? If you tell her you want something done, do you expect her to jump up and do it? What if her opinions aren’t the same as yours? Do you always get your way?

These are the things I’m interested in finding out about your fascination with this topic.
 
hesso12 said:
“the way Paul teaches” mutual submission is not the way everyone today teaches it. Everything depends on what you mean by “mutual submission.” Some of us put more stress on reciprocity here than others. But even if Paul means complete reciprocity (wives submit to husbands and husbands submit to wives), this does not mean that husbands and wives should submit to each other in the same way. The key is to remember that the relationship between Christ and the church is the pattern for the relationship between husband and wife. Are Christ and the church mutually submitted? They aren’t if submission means Christ yields to the authority of the church. But they are if submission means that Christ submitted Himself to suffering and death for the good of the church. That, however, is not how the church submits to Christ. The church submits to Christ by affirming His authority and following His lead. So mutual submission does not mean submitting to each other in the same ways. Therefore, mutual submission does not compromise Christ’s headship over the church and it should not compromise the headship of a godly husband.
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Come to think of it, we do believe that Christ does submit to the Church in certain respects.

See Matthew 16 where Jesus said:

"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hadesc will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will bed bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will bee loosed in heaven.”

So, the Church (the bride of Christ) is given rather a lot of authority.
 
ToeInTheWater said:
To those who are just posting Bible verses and other quotes to back up your stance, I’d appreciate it if you could discuss how you think “wifely submission” works in practice.

What about the example above, of a morbidly obese husband who demands unhealthy meals. Do you think a wife with such a husband should indeed keep preparing meals that he wants as if she is a short-order cook in some greasy spoon diner? If not, how do you see her dealing with this?
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Right. Or how is one supposed to deal with an alcoholic, drug-addicted, gambling-addicted, severely mentally ill husband, or a husband with dementia? Or, say, a husband that has converted to a non-Christian religion and wishes the family to follow? Or, who wants the wife to perjure herself in signing documents (for instance tax documents)?

Obviously, submission has limits. One occasionally bumps into people who believe that wives should submit even in sin, because somehow it’s the husband’s responsibility and the wife isn’t responsible, but that’s kind of a lily-livered attitude for the wife to take. “I’m submitting to you and I’m going to be A-OK, but you’re going to burn in hell!” Not a very loving approach, I think. Most people with a strong view of submission do not go that far, but then the question arises, if there are limits (and there are), where are those limits?
 
hesso12 said:
A wife shows submission unto her husband when she allows him to take leadership in the relationship. His position as leader is biblical (1 Corinthians 11:3). Abraham’s wife, Sarah, is an example of a woman following her husband’s lead (1 Peter 3:6). Sarah has never been confused with being a woman who was a frail doormat. Peter notes that she was not afraid in life. Submission should not be confused with a person being weak.

Women are not commanded to submit to their husband’s because God insures that men will be just or loving. When a woman submits unto her husband, she is actually submitting unto God (Ephesians 5:22). A woman therefore does not submit because her husband deserves it in his own merit- she submits because she knows it is pleasing to her Lord. There will be times when a woman needs to submit, and her husband does not deserve it from a human perspective. But by divine right, God set the man as leader and a woman can trust that God is good. She can also know that nothing escapes God’s notice, and a wicked man will be held accountable for his actions.

When a wife submits to her husband, she does not try to take leadership from him. From the beginning of time, woman has tried to take leadership from the man- and man has often gladly given it away (Genesis 3). Some scholars believe that Genesis 3:16 refers to Eve’s new sin drive to override her husband’s headship, which has continued down the line of women. Women use many tactics to try taking control of leadership, including nagging, deception, and manipulation. This always results in sin and often, sorrowful consequences (Genesis 27). When a woman resorts to these tactics, she is trying to usurp God’s good design of relationship roles. A submissive wife must first learn to trust God’s goodness and His sovereignty.
Click to expand...
A Catholic must trust and recognize – that it is the Church who has the God given authority – to interpret/teach scripture in the Catholic sense. The Church has spoken – the mutual submission of husband and wife.

One who goes around giving their own spin/interpretation/application to scripture-- is the one “usurping” authority of the Catholic Church.
 
Xantippe said:
Right. Or how is one supposed to deal with an alcoholic, drug-addicted, gambling-addicted, severely mentally ill husband, or a husband with dementia? Or, say, a husband that has converted to a non-Christian religion and wishes the family to follow? Or, who wants the wife to perjure herself in signing documents (for instance tax documents)?

Obviously, submission has limits. One occasionally bumps into people who believe that wives should submit even in sin, because somehow it’s the husband’s responsibility and the wife isn’t responsible, but that’s kind of a lily-livered attitude for the wife to take. “I’m submitting to you and I’m going to be A-OK, but you’re going to burn in hell!” Not a very loving approach, I think. Most people with a strong view of submission do not go that far, but then the question arises, if there are limits (and there are), where are those limits?
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But submission is never a sign of value. Jesus submitted to the will of His Father (Matthew 26:39). It would be heresy to say that Jesus is of lesser value than the Father. They are One, and Jesus cannot be of lesser value. His submission had nothing to do with His value—it had to do with God-ordained structure. It is the same with husband and wife.
 
Hesso, you’re not answering any questions - just posting the same thing over and over in different terms.

Should the submissive wife serve whatever the husband wants to eat?

Should she allow him to spend his paycheck however he wishes?

Should she prance around in pegnoir whenever he demands?

No Bible verses, please. Just yes or no.

Thanks in advance.
 
Walking_Home said:
A Catholic must trust and recognize – that it is the Church who has the God given authority – to interpret/teach scripture in the Catholic sense. The Church has spoken – the mutual submission of husband and wife.

One who goes around giving their own spin/interpretation/application to scripture-- is the one “usurping” authority of the Catholic Church.
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The church does not specifically teach mutual submission.The belief in mutual submission ignores the context of the passage. The next verses read �Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.� Paul then echoes the call to husbands, but instead of teaching submission teaches love. Where women are to submit, men are told to love. There is no call for men to submit to their wives. The sixth chapter of Ephesians speaks about the relationships of children to parents and slaves to masters. Once again there is a call to submission on one party and of love to the other.

The context of verse 21 does not support the teaching of mutual submission. God is orderly and it is would go against His character to deny the authority structures that He has put in place. Just as He would not expect a king to be in subject to his subjects, so He would not expect a husband to be subject to his wife.
 
PolarGuy said:
Hesso, you’re not answering any questions - just posting the same thing over and over in different terms.

Should the submissive wife serve whatever the husband wants to eat?

Should she allow him to spend his paycheck however he wishes?

Should she prance around in pegnoir whenever he demands?

No Bible verses, please. Just yes or no.

Thanks in advance.
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sorry friend I can only do what I can.😊
 
hesso12 said:
The church does not specifically teach mutual submission.The belief in mutual submission ignores the context of the passage. The next verses read �Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.� Paul then echoes the call to husbands, but instead of teaching submission teaches love. Where women are to submit, men are told to love. There is no call for men to submit to their wives. The sixth chapter of Ephesians speaks about the relationships of children to parents and slaves to masters. Once again there is a call to submission on one party and of love to the other.

The context of verse 21 does not support the teaching of mutual submission. God is orderly and it is would go against His character to deny the authority structures that He has put in place. Just as He would not expect a king to be in subject to his subjects, so He would not expect a husband to be subject to his wife.
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Spin it as you will – doesn’t change that Church teaching is the mutual submission of husband and wife.
 
Spouses are not equal when 1 spouse holds veto power and can “break ties” unilaterally.

I said it on another thread and I repeat it here: I think the husband who wants a submissive wife generally does so as a result of some defect or inadequacy on his part such that he does not wish be challenged, or has such low self esteem that he can’t handle an equal partner in a marriage.
 
PolarGuy said:
Spouses are not equal when 1 spouse holds veto power and can “break ties” unilaterally.

I said it on another thread and I repeat it here: I think the husband who wants a submissive wife generally does so as a result of some defect or inadequacy on his part such that he does not wish be challenged, or has such low self esteem that he can’t handle an equal partner in a marriage.
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Yes – agree 100%.
 
Gee, Hesso, all I asked was for simple yes/no answers.

Your declining to give them speaks volumes.
 
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