What do you think of men who want a submissive wife?

[ToeInTheWater]

Per Gertabelle’s request am making a spin-off topic. Essentially, her topic about what men want in a wife, became sidetracked by issues of submission in marriage.

My personal take is that if a man holds a traditionalist or complementarian view of marriage, that is one thing, but if a man’s Number One Priority is for a wife to be submissive, I would be somewhat wary.

Especially as some men seem to, if not exactly be misogynists, be distrusting of women in general, see them as vindictive and fickle, and essentially see the Bible verses about submission as being there to prevent women from running roughshod over their men.

Again, not knocking traditionalist views of marriage, but men who seem to think “I should be allowed to do what I want without worrying what my wife would do if she disagrees with me or actually caring about her thoughts or feelings.”

Such a man would seem to want a servant, more than an equal partnership with a woman who has just as much inherent worth and dignity as he does, quite separate on how pleasing or useful she is to him.

 

[Allegra]

I would be okay if a man wanted a wife to be submissive as long as he held himself up to equal standards. It seems to me that I know so many women who feel like the have the weight of the world on their soldiers because they were raised to believe that they had to be in charge of everything in the household, be super mommy, and work a successful full-time career, all while keeping the mentally and socially inferior male under her thumb so he doesn’t mess everything up. This is probably because so many of them were raised by single mothers who had no choice but to take on all these roles. It’s not how God planned things though and it isn’t healthy for either husband or wife.

 

[hesso12]

22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.Ephesians 5:22-33(by St Paul the apostle)

in the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives.1 Peter 3:1.(by St Peter apostle)

 

[Sarcelle]

22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.Ephesians 5:22-33(by St Paul the apostle)

in the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives.1 Peter 3:1.(by St Peter apostle)

You forgot the other half of the equation about men loving their wives as Christ loved the church. These two go hand in hand. The husband is not Ceasar, the emperor of his own domestic kingdom with the wife as a slave, but Christ with the wife as the church. Both husband and wife should not approach their vocations and each other with arrogance but with humility.

 

[hesso12]

You forgot the other half of the equation about men loving their wives as Christ loved the church. These two go hand in hand. The husband is not Ceasar, the emperor of his own domestic kingdom with the wife as a slave, but Christ with the wife as the church. Both husband and wife should not approach their vocations and each other with arrogance but with humility.

yeah

 

[Nacho45]

I think the real question should be “what about the wife who refuses?”

 

[johnnyt3000]

The husband loves the wife as Christ loved the Church (willing to die for her). The wife submits to the husband as the Church submits to Christ. In the traditional view of the family, the man is the head of the household. The wife is the heart of the household. If you separate just one of them from the family, the family dies. Just as if you remove just the head or just the heart from a person, the person dies.

 

[Walking_Home]

The teachings of the Catholic Church — mutual subjection (submission): Spouses are to be – subject (submit) to one another out of reverence to Christ.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

IV. THE EFFECTS OF THE SACRAMENT OF MATRIMONY

The grace of the sacrament of Matrimony

1641 "By reason of their state in life and of their order, [Christian spouses] have their own special gifts in the People of God."147 This grace proper to the sacrament of Matrimony is intended to perfect the couple’s love and to strengthen their indissoluble unity. By this grace they "help one another to attain holiness in their married life and in welcoming and educating their children."148

1642 Christ is the source of this grace. "Just as of old God encountered his people with a covenant of love and fidelity, so our Savior, the spouse of the Church, now encounters Christian spouses through the sacrament of Matrimony."149** Christ dwells with them, gives them the strength to take up their crosses and so follow him, to rise again after they have fallen, to forgive one another, to bear one another’s burdens, to “be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ,”**150 and to love one another with supernatural, tender, and fruitful love. In the joys of their love and family life he gives them here on earth a foretaste of the wedding feast of the Lamb:

 

[pianistclare]

What a premise to begin a marriage on.
Marriage is 100/100.
Not 50/50, not 90/10.
I’d question the leadership ability of anyone who didn’t consider the opinions, abilities, and perspective of their constituents. The ideally married couple has so much love, respect, and concern for the other, they put the other first when possible, and they decide TOGETHER major issues.
People love to cherry pick Scripture passages because it feeds their sense of control.
Christ was God, but He allowed His persecution and death to happen because He loved His spouse, the Church which He built, and the people of God. He was not weak in leadership. He was strong, Willing to suffer even unto death.

Submission in our world today is a word that elicits anger. It’s not a word of communion or togetherness. If a married couple agrees that one or the other (for example) has the final word on finances, based on that person’s expertise, that’s not being submissive in the strictest sense. That’s making decisions together, in the most prudent way.

Men who dominate, and DESIRE to dominate have self esteem issues. A real man, loves his wife, guides when guidance is needed, and defers when deferment is needed.

Likewise for women. but you seldom see women who say they want a submissive husband. Because they don’t see it as a godly thing. They see is as a way to exert control and lessen their partner. Men who say they want or must have a submissive wife in these times, will end up disappointed, (because they’ll find a hard time finding such) or disappointed (because such women, if they exist will anger them no end with their neediness), Either way, it’s a mistake.

 

[EasterJoy]

…My personal take is that if a man holds a traditionalist or complementarian view of marriage, that is one thing, but if a man’s Number One Priority is for a wife to be submissive, I would be somewhat wary…

I’d be far more than “somewhat wary.”

If anyone purports to be a Christian and yet is even somewhat more concerned about others submitting to him or her rather than that he or she be the Lord’s servant in helping all other Christian submit to the Lord, put hope in the Lord, and trust in the Lord first, last, and always, steer clear. That goes whether it is a priest, a religious, a fellow layperson, or even a bishop. It is not the mind of Christ.

If, in contrast, a person is willing to take personal abuse, humiliations or loss of social status in order to stay faithful to the duties of authority given to him or her, that is another thing altogether. The person with a position of authority in the Lord has duties, and even when we disagree we have to help them to bear that authority to the best of their abilities. That can mean going along even when we know they are mistaken, provided it does not mean following them into serious sin.

I do not fault a man for looking for a wife who will agree about the duties of a husband and the duties of a wife in practical terms, so that they will not have to endure marital strife on the subject. There is not just one single correct way for a married couple to see this issue, but it is a trial when they do not understand it in a compatible way.

 

[Lost_Sheep]

If a man want’s a submissive wife in the Biblical sense, that’s OK. If he wants a slave or a doormat, not so much.

 

[Sarcelle]

I’d be far more than “somewhat wary.”

If anyone purports to be a Christian and yet is even somewhat more concerned about others submitting to him or her rather than that he or she be the Lord’s servant in helping all other Christian submit to the Lord, put hope in the Lord, and trust in the Lord first, last, and always, steer clear. That goes whether it is a priest, a religious, a fellow layperson, or even a bishop. It is not the mind of Christ.

If, in contrast, a person is willing to take personal abuse, humiliations or loss of social status in order to stay faithful to the duties of authority given to him or her, that is another thing altogether. The person with a position of authority in the Lord has duties, and even when we disagree we have to help them to bear that authority to the best of their abilities. That can mean going along even when we know they are mistaken, provided it does not mean following them into serious sin.

I do not fault a man for looking for a wife who will agree about the duties of a husband and the duties of a wife in practical terms, so that they will not have to endure marital strife on the subject. There is not just one single correct way for a married couple to see this issue, but it is a trial when they do not understand it in a compatible way.

Yes

 

[ela2]

I wanted to say what ‘lost sheep’ said. Thank you there.

 

[chevalier]

Per Gertabelle’s request am making a spin-off topic. Essentially, her topic about what men want in a wife, became sidetracked by issues of submission in marriage.

My personal take is that if a man holds a traditionalist or complementarian view of marriage, that is one thing, but if a man’s Number One Priority is for a wife to be submissive, I would be somewhat wary.

Especially as some men seem to, if not exactly be misogynists, be distrusting of women in general, see them as vindictive and fickle, and essentially see the Bible verses about submission as being there to prevent women from running roughshod over their men.

Again, not knocking traditionalist views of marriage, but men who seem to think “I should be allowed to do what I want without worrying what my wife would do if she disagrees with me or actually caring about her thoughts or feelings.”

Such a man would seem to want a servant, more than an equal partnership with a woman who has just as much inherent worth and dignity as he does, quite separate on how pleasing or useful she is to him.

I essentially agree with everything you said, but at the same time I feel the need to add a couple of caveats.

First of all marriage is precisely about no party running roughshod over the other. Neither the man nor the woman is free to run roughshod over the other spouse.

Neither party is free to do what he or she wants without caring about the other party’s thoughts or feelings. The man loses that right, but so does the woman.

Personally, I’m not looking for a submissive woman, but at the same time I wouldn’t like to run into one with a contrarian attitude or one preoccupied with having her thing done etc.

I’d be far more than “somewhat wary.”

Same.

If, in contrast, a person is willing to take personal abuse, humiliations or loss of social status in order to stay faithful to the duties of authority given to him or her, that is another thing altogether. The person with a position of authority in the Lord has duties, and even when we disagree we have to help them to bear that authority to the best of their abilities. That can mean going along even when we know they are mistaken, provided it does not mean following them into serious sin.

Yeah, rights can be forborne, even to satisfy someone else’s capricious whim, but I tend to be somewhat short with people who want you to sacrifice your duty and the right thing to do in favour of satisfying an arbitrary caprice of theirs or want you to give them the power for the sake of power alone when you’re preoccupied with doing the right thing with that power, not with gratifying your own desires, let alone arbitrary impulses or whims.

That’s not something I would want to find too much of in a wife (a little is inevitable in one, as I’m sure is in myself too).

I would be okay if a man wanted a wife to be submissive as long as he held himself up to equal standards. It seems to me that I know so many women who feel like the have the weight of the world on their soldiers because they were raised to believe that they had to be in charge of everything in the household, be super mommy, and work a successful full-time career, all while keeping the mentally and socially inferior male under her thumb so he doesn’t mess everything up. This is probably because so many of them were raised by single mothers who had no choice but to take on all these roles. It’s not how God planned things though and it isn’t healthy for either husband or wife.

Yup. I’m not looking for a submissive wife, but neither am I the man in the bolded part. At least in your example the woman is still guided by a sense of duty and devotion to common good.

 

[Sunbreak]

“What do you think of men who want a submissive wife?”
Not much. Last time I checked I was born into freedom in America, not into slavery.

 

[EasterJoy]

“What do you think of men who want a submissive wife?”
Not much. Last time I checked I was born into freedom in America, not into slavery.

I would be wary of any Christian who doesn’t know there is a difference between submission and slavery, too.

 

[Nacho45]

I would be wary of any Christian who doesn’t know there is a difference between submission and slavery, too.

It does have the appearance of being clueless as to the meaning of the Scriptures.

 

[phil_at_dayboro]

Firstly , if a woman goes into marriage beliving she will be a servant to a single man,
Then perhaps she needs counselling , because that just doesn’t work anymore ,
This modern era , man & woman are partners in a marriage ,everything should be 50/50

Well it certainly is in this house , and it works just fine,

Secondly, ,

Ephesians 5:25 , have a read ,

 

[hesso12]

But what if you married Miss right?



No problem

Remember the old WWJD (What Would Jesus Do) slogan? As trite as I often find such sayings, in this case it’s a valid question. You are called to love your wife as Christ loves the church. He is your role model for leadership. So here are a few things about how Jesus approaches us as his bride that you should wrap your mind around before you and your bride engage in a discussion about submission:

• Jesus never demands our submission. He invites it with loving-kindness.
• Jesus laid down his life for his bride, the very model of sacrificial love.
• Jesus’ only motivation was to do the will of the Father (it was his very food)
• Jesus did what he did for the sake of the Kingdom (represented by your marriage)

Keeping these things in mind, explain to your wife that your desire is to have a biblical marriage. Tell her that your understanding of this includes a God-given level of authority for husbands. Emphasize that this is not about who is better or worse, smarter of dumber, who is more or less capable, but that it is simply a scriptural mandate. Share with her what you have learned about the bridal paradigm and how it has impacted your thinking. Don’t pretend to have all the answers about what all it means – none of us does – but ask her to help you figure out what it means. Your desire is to take this journey of discovery together.

 

[chevalier]

Firstly , if a woman goes into marriage beliving she will be a servant to a single man,
Then perhaps she needs counselling , because that just doesn’t work anymore ,
This modern era , man & woman are partners in a marriage ,everything should be 50/50

Well it certainly is in this house , and it works just fine,

Secondly, ,

Ephesians 5:25 , have a read ,

Like Clare said, it’s not 50/50, it’s 100/100. 50/50 is good (but not optimal) for business partnerships maybe. There is more to learn in a marriage than taking turns at making decisions or flipping the coin.