What do you think of MLK Jr.'s quote?

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In April of 1967, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. spoke to an audience of clergy and laymen at Riverside Church in New York City, voicing his concerns about the United States’ heavy focus on war and military action while neglecting its own poor.
He said, “A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual doom.”

youtube.com/watch?v=Q5VhCvrEcPY

Would you agree with MLK on this quote?

Do budgets show our country’s values and true concerns?
 
MillTownCath said:
Do budgets show our country’s values and true concerns?
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Let’s suppose they do… so why don’t you report back to us on education and welfare spending a percent of federal and state budgets vs. defense spending?
 
I disagree with MLK. We’re already a welfare nation, with highly funded schools that can’t teach kids to even think for themselves.
 
JHow said:
Let’s suppose they do… so why don’t you report back to us on education and welfare spending a percent of federal and state budgets vs. defense spending?
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Here is Obama’s budget.

washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/budget-2010/

Defense: 900 Billion

Programs for the poor
  • Medicaid: 300 Billion
  • Relief (Disaster + Assent/Job Relief): 36 Billion
I’m not sure what to do with Sociali Security, as that is an entitlement.
However, it certainly does help the poor, because it helps everyone. But I would think that only a fraction of the money that goes to SS is going to the “poor.”

Overall, my question is would you agree with MLK on what would result in spiritual doom?
There seems to be a lot of people here who dislike government playing a role in helping the poor sick and needy, so I would like to hear from them on this issue.
 
Alexander_Smith said:
I disagree with MLK. We’re already a welfare nation, with highly funded schools that can’t teach kids to even think for themselves.
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Highly funded? Surely our schools need more than just money, but it seems you are out of touch if you claim they are highly funded.

Here in MN, we spend a lot of money on our schools, and it results in us consistently having the highest ACT scores in the Nation.

ohe.state.mn.us/mPg.cfm?pageID=792
 
MillTownCath said:
Here is Obama’s budget.

washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/budget-2010/

Defense: 900 Billion

Programs for the poor
  • Medicaid: 300 Billion
  • Relief (Disaster + Assent/Job Relief): 36 Billion
I’m not sure what to do with Sociali Security, as that is an entitlement.
However, it certainly does help the poor, because it helps everyone. But I would think that only a fraction of the money that goes to SS is going to the “poor.”

Overall, my question is would you agree with MLK on what would result in spiritual doom?
There seems to be a lot of people here who dislike government playing a role in helping the poor sick and needy, so I would like to hear from them on this issue.
Click to expand...
First of all, let’s make sure you are accurate and not picking and choosing.

2010 budget…

Dept of Defense 664 billion, not 900 billion and many of those employed by the military are poor people trying to make a better life for themselves, which includes retirement, disability and some schooling.

To the poor and needy

12 billion for support for families and youth
onlineforextrading.com/blog/federal-budget-broken-down/

453 billion medicare
290 billion medicaid
571 billion other mandatory programs which include welfare

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_States_federal_budget

I think that the times when MLK was speaking, he was mostly correct in helping the poor.

But the problem now is that so many people are dependent on the government, it has created welfare states and does much much more harm than good.
 
dmelosi said:
First of all, let’s make sure you are accurate and not picking and choosing.

2010 budget…

Dept of Defense 664 billion, not 900 billion and many of those employed by the military are poor people trying to make a better life for themselves, which includes retirement, disability and some schooling.

To the poor and needy

12 billion for support for families and youth
onlineforextrading.com/blog/federal-budget-broken-down/

453 billion medicare
290 billion medicaid
571 billion other mandatory programs which include welfare

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_States_federal_budget

I think that the times when MLK was speaking, he was mostly correct in helping the poor.

But the problem now is that so many people are dependent on the government, it has created welfare states and does much much more harm than good.
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I agree that people can become dependent on the government to a fault.
However, let’s take medicaid for example.

Many of these people simple cannot afford health insurance, and it isn’t provided through their workplace.

What do you suggest they do?
 
MillTownCath said:
I agree that people can become dependent on the government to a fault.
However, let’s take medicaid for example.

Many of these people simple cannot afford health insurance, and it isn’t provided through their workplace.

What do you suggest they do?
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I believe that the U.S. does need to provide some healthcare for everyone. But certainly not like the other programs that make people dependent.

Your post started out twisting the facts.
 
I would also add that in the above budget analysis that we omitted Education spending (which is a massive STATE expenditure - and the best path out of poverty) as well as private charitable contributions.

The fact is, today, at least, we as a society spend far more on “the poor” than we do on defense, so by MLK’s standards I don’t think things are that bad.

A bigger point that I think MLK misses is that tax revenues are not charity. You can never prove that you didn’t pay a tax because you had to, no matter how good you judge the causes tax money is spent on. Otherwise, slaves would be the most moral people of all since they “give” all their labor to their masters.
 
MLK said, “A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual doom.”

I do not agree with this statement because it is too general. The government is responsible for all its citizens, not just the poor. Moreover, defense is one of the major ends or goals of the government.

This is a feel-good statement which probably brought a huge cheeer, but does it take into account things like the amount of actual charity given by people to help others? We have one of the highest rates of charitable giving among all the nations in the world. Did he take into account that “our defense” also included the defense of several other nations, which left them free to spend their tax revenues on their poor.
 
dmelosi said:
I believe that the U.S. does need to provide some healthcare for everyone. But certainly not like the other programs that make people dependent.

Your post started out twisting the facts.
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I am fairly certain that most people are on welfare less than three years. There are, of course, notable exceptions. In general the idea the social programs promote dependence is a right wing myth.
 
MillTownCath said:
In April of 1967, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. spoke to an audience of clergy and laymen at Riverside Church in New York City, voicing his concerns about the United States’ heavy focus on war and military action while neglecting its own poor.
He said, “A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual doom.”

youtube.com/watch?v=Q5VhCvrEcPY

Would you agree with MLK on this quote?

Do budgets show our country’s values and true concerns?
Click to expand...
I agree with his comment. Our foreign military intervention is eating us alive. There are certainly inefficiencies in our social welfare system, most notably our unwillingness to deal with the rampant fraud that plagues the system. We could probably do it a lot less bureaucratically too. But as a general proposition, I agree with him.
 
St_Francis said:
MLK said, “A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual doom.”

I do not agree with this statement because it is too general. The government is responsible for all its citizens, not just the poor. Moreover, defense is one of the major ends or goals of the government.

This is a feel-good statement which probably brought a huge cheeer, but does it take into account things like the amount of actual charity given by people to help others? We have one of the highest rates of charitable giving among all the nations in the world. Did he take into account that “our defense” also included the defense of several other nations, which left them free to spend their tax revenues on their poor.
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The context was the Vietnam war, just to give you some more info.
Here is the speech if you want to listen. Even if you don’t agree with that statement, It’s still a great speech. youtube.com/watch?v=b80Bsw0UG-U
 
dmelosi said:
Then you would be wrong on both counts.

urban.org/publications/900288.html
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The fact that I might be wrong about the percentages does not in any way prove the dependency argument. Even if 90% of welfare recipients stayed on the rolls 40 years, it would not prove it causes dependency. Correlation does not prove causation.
It is quite possible that before welfare those people would have simply starved to death.

Having said this, I will also say that it probably is true for some people. But not many. I hear the same arguments made against extending unemployment. Conservatives think that a man who worked all his life would now be happy sitting on his behind collecting 1/2 or 1/4 of what he used to earn. Fine for retirement. But now he is going deeper into debt every day. He just wants a job.
Government programs do not make people lazy. But I will admit that lazy people do exist. Just not as many as the conservatives imagine.
 
mcteague said:
The fact that I might be wrong about the percentages does not in any way prove the dependency argument. Even if 90% of welfare recipients stayed on the rolls 40 years, it would not prove it causes dependency. Correlation does not prove causation.
It is quite possible that before welfare those people would have simply starved to death.

Having said this, I will also say that it probably is true for some people. But not many. I hear the same arguments made against extending unemployment. Conservatives think that a man who worked all his life would now be happy sitting on his behind collecting 1/2 or 1/4 of what he used to earn. Fine for retirement. But now he is going deeper into debt every day. He just wants a job.
Government programs do not make people lazy. But I will admit that lazy people do exist. Just not as many as the conservatives imagine.
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You are too married to your party to think objectively on this.
 
dmelosi said:
You are too married to your party to think objectively on this.
Click to expand...
I could say the same thing.
When you look at a law or policy you don’t like, ask yourself what is the underlying public policy problem that is trying to be addressed. If you don’t think it is actually a problem that’s one thing. But if you do, then you ask if the policy or law correctly addresses it. If it doesn’t, make some other suggestion. I would be glad to hear suggestions that lead to lower unemployment and higher wages. But I just don’t see evidence that current government programs are the root cause of these problems. They may not be solving them. But that does not mean they are the cause of them.
 
mcteague said:
I could say the same thing.
When you look at a law or policy you don’t like, ask yourself what is the underlying public policy problem that is trying to be addressed. If you don’t think it is actually a problem that’s one thing. But if you do, then you ask if the policy or law correctly addresses it. If it doesn’t, make some other suggestion. I would be glad to hear suggestions that lead to lower unemployment and higher wages. But I just don’t see evidence that current government programs are the root cause of these problems. They may not be solving them. But that does not mean they are the cause of them.
Click to expand...
You volunteer or work in the welfare areas sometime and see for yourself. If you have seen firsthand you would know otherwise. You would know that it makes people dependent.
 
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