What do you think of my parish's new church design?

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? Two churches here will be combined into one, I’d say, within the next five years. One is a gorgeous old brick Gothic with all the trimmings, and the other is a black mission church for African American outreach. Due to the obviously changed social circumstances, and for some other reasons, a new church is in the final late planning stages.

The first design was this: sumterccsc.org/assets/images/ChuchFloorPlan.jpg which I found to be very nasty. Yes, it’s cruciform, but it looks run-of-the-mill and tending to the very modern.

Deo gratias, we’ve matured past that and this: sumterccsc.org/assets/images/ChurchPlan.pdf is the new plan. The outside is this: sumterccsc.org/assets/images/Elevations1.jpg We have a new bishop, His Excellency Guglielmone, and he favors tradition.

The new plan (second) includes many elements from the old church, including stained glass (images of Jesus, St. Anne, some random cardinals in regalia), and the high altar (and tabernacle) and matching baptistery. A separate belfry and even a choir loft and a cry room were also included (in 2011!). The continuation of the arch theme from the old church is also a very nice touch that, frankly, I’m surprised to see. One very subtle thing is that the sanctuary will face towards the East, guarding the fragile liturgical patrimony of the Church.

I’m elated the old plan was scrapped, and I am thoroughly happy with the new one. It could be better in some ways, but I wasnot expecting a design of this caliber, especially in this day and age, what with the dreadful average concrete box that somehow gets to be called a “church” of the Catholic variety. You really have no idea how happy this “mad rad trad” is to see this kind of design for a (for now) OF-only parish.

The community as a whole is rather traditional. There aren’t any EF masses, but there are plenty of old devotions and liturgical actions retained from the “medieval (read: pre-1960s) days.” The only real gripe I have is that the music tends on the mediocre (Gather :mad:), but it is not nearly as bad as I have heard at some churches, and for that I am thankful. We have five Redemptorist priests, and they are, through-and-through, some of the most doctrinally sound priests I have had the pleasure of enduring for a homily (which hasn’t been many, lol). The city itself is rather conservative, in fact, very socially conservative compared to other places in the state. There is a massive military presence which is getting bigger by the year, which is one of the main reasons needed for the expansion.

As far as I know, there are not really any codified concepts yet as to the actual decoration of the interior, but the architect has designed another Catholic church recently of a floor plan very similar to that of our new church, and here are some shots:

monarchpl.com/images/5-rel/5-rel-sp-2.jpg
monarchpl.com/images/5-rel/5-rel-sp-5.jpg
monarchpl.com/images/5-rel/5-rel-sp-7.jpg

I love the altar area. It is absolutely fantastic, and can be used easily to celebrate either Form. I presume that those things on the back wall can be used as side altars, which I like very much. I don’t really care for the commercialized, suburban stucco strip-mallish walls, but those can be easily made better. The floors and pews are quite nice.

The door area is fantastic: monarchpl.com/images/5-rel/5-rel-sp-4.jpg

What do you think about all this? Critiques? I want to get involved with the architecture council or whatever they have.

PS: none of the forums really made much sense, so I went with this one.
 
YoungTradCath said:
What do you think about all this? Critiques? I want to get involved with the architecture council or whatever they have.

PS: none of the forums really made much sense, so I went with this one.
Click to expand...
It is difficult to say too much from a floorplan outline, but the main think I would take issue with is this insistence on having the altar pushed way forward to the center of the crossing, with the pews in the two transepts turned inward toward each other. Now look at the proposed “future additions” on each side. Under that plan, you would have 376 seats in the north transept, 376 seats in the south transept, and only 256 in the nave! What kind of a church is it where only 25% of the seating is in the nave facing forward, and 75% is off to the left and right in the transepts?!

And I have never seen a church with so many flowers that they need a “Flower Sacristy.” Is your priest a part-time florist or something?
 
MarkThompson said:
It is difficult to say too much from a floorplan outline, but the main think I would take issue with is this insistence on having the altar pushed way forward to the center of the crossing, with the pews in the two transepts turned inward toward each other. Now look at the proposed “future additions” on each side. Under that plan, you would have 376 seats in the north transept, 376 seats in the south transept, and only 256 in the nave! What kind of a church is it where only 25% of the seating is in the nave facing forward, and 75% is off to the left and right in the transepts?!

And I have never seen a church with so many flowers that they need a “Flower Sacristy.” Is your priest a part-time florist or something?
Click to expand...
I was thinking the same thing about the altar being pushed so far forward. I understand the want to see the liturgical actions (although I don’t agree with it), but there is a sense of artificiality that I get when I walk into a church and it’s obvious that the only thing the parish cared about was making sure the altar was the most prominent thing, even sacrificing proportions and design to do it. I would prefer the altar to be closer to the wall so that the transept pews could be turned forward. I would also like the nave to be longer.

About the flower sacristy, I have no idea. I’ve never even seen a flower in the current churches before.
 
YoungTradCath said:
I was thinking the same thing about the altar being pushed so far forward. I understand the want to see the liturgical actions (although I don’t agree with it), but there is a sense of artificiality that I get when I walk into a church and it’s obvious that the only thing the parish cared about was making sure the altar was the most prominent thing, even sacrificing proportions and design to do it. I would prefer the altar to be closer to the wall so that the transept pews could be turned forward. I would also like the nave to be longer.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I always figure if people really wanted to be that close to the altar, then you wouldn’t see so many of them deliberately sit in the back.
 
YoungTradCath said:
? Two churches here will be combined into one, I’d say, within the next five years. One is a gorgeous old brick Gothic with all the trimmings, and the other is a black mission church for African American outreach. Due to the obviously changed social circumstances, and for some other reasons, a new church is in the final late planning stages.

The first design was this: sumterccsc.org/assets/images/ChuchFloorPlan.jpg which I found to be very nasty. Yes, it’s cruciform, but it looks run-of-the-mill and tending to the very modern.

Deo gratias, we’ve matured past that and this: sumterccsc.org/assets/images/ChurchPlan.pdf is the new plan. The outside is this: sumterccsc.org/assets/images/Elevations1.jpg We have a new bishop, His Excellency Guglielmone, and he favors tradition.

The new plan (second) includes many elements from the old church, including stained glass (images of Jesus, St. Anne, some random cardinals in regalia), and the high altar (and tabernacle) and matching baptistery. A separate belfry and even a choir loft and a cry room were also included (in 2011!). The continuation of the arch theme from the old church is also a very nice touch that, frankly, I’m surprised to see. One very subtle thing is that the sanctuary will face towards the East, guarding the fragile liturgical patrimony of the Church.

I’m elated the old plan was scrapped, and I am thoroughly happy with the new one. It could be better in some ways, but I wasnot expecting a design of this caliber, especially in this day and age, what with the dreadful average concrete box that somehow gets to be called a “church” of the Catholic variety. You really have no idea how happy this “mad rad trad” is to see this kind of design for a (for now) OF-only parish.

The community as a whole is rather traditional. There aren’t any EF masses, but there are plenty of old devotions and liturgical actions retained from the “medieval (read: pre-1960s) days.” The only real gripe I have is that the music tends on the mediocre (Gather :mad:), but it is not nearly as bad as I have heard at some churches, and for that I am thankful. We have five Redemptorist priests, and they are, through-and-through, some of the most doctrinally sound priests I have had the pleasure of enduring for a homily (which hasn’t been many, lol). The city itself is rather conservative, in fact, very socially conservative compared to other places in the state. There is a massive military presence which is getting bigger by the year, which is one of the main reasons needed for the expansion.

As far as I know, there are not really any codified concepts yet as to the actual decoration of the interior, but the architect has designed another Catholic church recently of a floor plan very similar to that of our new church, and here are some shots:

monarchpl.com/images/5-rel/5-rel-sp-2.jpg
monarchpl.com/images/5-rel/5-rel-sp-5.jpg
monarchpl.com/images/5-rel/5-rel-sp-7.jpg

I love the altar area. It is absolutely fantastic, and can be used easily to celebrate either Form. I presume that those things on the back wall can be used as side altars, which I like very much. I don’t really care for the commercialized, suburban stucco strip-mallish walls, but those can be easily made better. The floors and pews are quite nice.

The door area is fantastic: monarchpl.com/images/5-rel/5-rel-sp-4.jpg

What do you think about all this? Critiques? I want to get involved with the architecture council or whatever they have.

PS: none of the forums really made much sense, so I went with this one.
Click to expand...
Are you telling me that St. Jude and St. Anne are merging??? At long last??? And what will happen to old St. Jude Church, the little quonset hut run by the wonderful Oblates of Mary???

This was my parish while I was stationed at Shaw AFB from 1981 to 1984. I loved this parish dearly. We opened the very first food bank in South Carolina there at St. Jude back in 1982. I was the first secretary and worked there every day.

Thanks for this post. 😃
 
It’s nice. I love the crucifix.

I just prefer everyone to be facing East. Jesus will return from the East. All worshipers and priest used to face East. In Eziekel 43:4 the glory of God came into the house by way of the gate facing toward the East, and as the lightning comes from the East and flashes to the West so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be. Mt 24 :twocents:
 
I think it’s really fantastic! First look at the floor plan reminded me of the layout of the Cathedrals over here. The layouts are beautifully simular.

As some have said about the alter, I guess it is out too far, but, I don’t know, I think it’s something I could get used to real easy. lol

I think the only thing that struck me, and maybe I missed it somewhere, but I noticed there wasn’t any stained glass. What a shame, Maybe the small windows either side of the crucifix could be… ah well, just a suggestion.

Gorgeous church though! 👍

God Bless you,
cheese
 
YoungTradCath said:
? Two churches here will be combined into one, I’d say, within the next five years. One is a gorgeous old brick Gothic with all the trimmings, and the other is a black mission church for African American outreach. Due to the obviously changed social circumstances, and for some other reasons, a new church is in the final late planning stages.

The first design was this: sumterccsc.org/assets/images/ChuchFloorPlan.jpg which I found to be very nasty. Yes, it’s cruciform, but it looks run-of-the-mill and tending to the very modern.

Deo gratias, we’ve matured past that and this: sumterccsc.org/assets/images/ChurchPlan.pdf is the new plan. The outside is this: sumterccsc.org/assets/images/Elevations1.jpg We have a new bishop, His Excellency Guglielmone, and he favors tradition.

The new plan (second) includes many elements from the old church, including stained glass (images of Jesus, St. Anne, some random cardinals in regalia), and the high altar (and tabernacle) and matching baptistery. A separate belfry and even a choir loft and a cry room were also included (in 2011!). The continuation of the arch theme from the old church is also a very nice touch that, frankly, I’m surprised to see. One very subtle thing is that the sanctuary will face towards the East, guarding the fragile liturgical patrimony of the Church.

I’m elated the old plan was scrapped, and I am thoroughly happy with the new one. It could be better in some ways, but I wasnot expecting a design of this caliber, especially in this day and age, what with the dreadful average concrete box that somehow gets to be called a “church” of the Catholic variety. You really have no idea how happy this “mad rad trad” is to see this kind of design for a (for now) OF-only parish.

The community as a whole is rather traditional. There aren’t any EF masses, but there are plenty of old devotions and liturgical actions retained from the “medieval (read: pre-1960s) days.” The only real gripe I have is that the music tends on the mediocre (Gather :mad:), but it is not nearly as bad as I have heard at some churches, and for that I am thankful. We have five Redemptorist priests, and they are, through-and-through, some of the most doctrinally sound priests I have had the pleasure of enduring for a homily (which hasn’t been many, lol). The city itself is rather conservative, in fact, very socially conservative compared to other places in the state. There is a massive military presence which is getting bigger by the year, which is one of the main reasons needed for the expansion.

As far as I know, there are not really any codified concepts yet as to the actual decoration of the interior, but the architect has designed another Catholic church recently of a floor plan very similar to that of our new church, and here are some shots:

monarchpl.com/images/5-rel/5-rel-sp-2.jpg
monarchpl.com/images/5-rel/5-rel-sp-5.jpg
monarchpl.com/images/5-rel/5-rel-sp-7.jpg

I love the altar area. It is absolutely fantastic, and can be used easily to celebrate either Form. I presume that those things on the back wall can be used as side altars, which I like very much. I don’t really care for the commercialized, suburban stucco strip-mallish walls, but those can be easily made better. The floors and pews are quite nice.

The door area is fantastic: monarchpl.com/images/5-rel/5-rel-sp-4.jpg

What do you think about all this? Critiques? I want to get involved with the architecture council or whatever they have.

PS: none of the forums really made much sense, so I went with this one.
Click to expand...
I like it! 🙂
 
Not bad.

But three suggestions:
  1. Where is the choir loft? I did not see one.
  2. Move the baptistry to the back of the nave. That is where it should be, not up near (or in) the sanctuary. Baptism is what joins a person to the Church. The Nave should be where the Faithful gather to witness the paschal mystery. The significance of having a baptistry in the back highlights this fact. Also, if you look at a church in comparison to the Temple, you will see that the narthex corresponds to the Court of the Gentiles, while the Nave corresponds to the inner courts. (The sanctuary corresponds to the Holy, while the Tabernacle corresponds to the Holy of Holies).
  3. I did not see any altar rails defined, nor a rood screen. The sanctuary should be clearly delineated and separated from the Nave (GIRM 295). Altar rails/screens provide that separation far more effectively than mere elevation (which is what is indicated).
And then one question: Did I see a high altar in the back of the sanctuary or was that for a table altar?

 
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