What do you think of Pius XII?

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InnocentIII

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I have been following the “What is your favourite pope” thread with interest. While there are several popes who have appealed to me for different reasons I have a great love of and devotion to Venerable Pius XII. Now this may be just because he was the Pope when I was born but I think it is probably more than that - his courage and wisdom during the dark days of the Second World War, his strong commitment to the faith, his intelligence and discernment - but I am also willing to admit he was the last pope before the hell that was post Vatican II (NOT VII itself so please no defences of the Council) and this may colour my perception.

I was interested therefore at how many nominated Pius XII as their favourite even though he wasn’t actually listed on the poll. So this poll is designed to ascertain the feelings of forum members on Pius XII. I have also divided it according to age as I think this is an important indicator of where the Church now stands at the beginning of a new pope’s reign.

Please feel free (indeed I encourage you) to comment or give your opinions as well as voting. Thankyou.
 
Pius XII died the year I graduated from High School. I recall him as being a very intelligent, wise, and holy man. In my opinion He was loved by almost all Catholics and did not suffer the bashing that several later Popes were subjected to.
 
In full recognition of the greatness of JPII, Pius XII was, IMHO, the greatest pope of the 20th century. Not only did he save so many lives during WWII, but his obvious piety and devout bearing were a lamp of inspiration to millions.
He lived his times in holiness, with a firm hand on the tiller of the Barque of Peter.
With full appreciation of the other good and great popes of the 20th century, Pius XII probably had the most difficult historical situation to deal with, and did so quietly and with the utmost dignity.
He will always be the pope I respect the most.
I did not vote on the “favorite popes” thread. If I had, it would have been Pius XII.
 
Peace be with you!

I love Pius XII…and I’m glad I know enough about him to counter those ridiculous claims that he helped the Nazis. I can’t believe people can say things like that.
But as a side note, I would recommend not stating that he was the last real pope or that post-VII is “hell”…sedevacantism is still under banned topics, and while that may not be your intent, or even your own position, it can start a lot of arguments in here.

In Christ,
Rand
 
I am halfway through the book The Myth of Hitler’s Pope by Rabbi David G. Dalin. Great book. It is time we all defend this great man from modern slander.
st julie
 
Rand Al'Thor:
Peace be with you!
But as a side note, I would recommend not stating that he was the last real pope or that post-VII is “hell”…sedevacantism is still under banned topics, and while that may not be your intent, or even your own position, it can start a lot of arguments in here.
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Thankyou Rand. I most definitely did not say that he was the last real pope as all the subsequent popes wre just as real as he. I was also careful to point out that I was not condemning VII which was a perfectly orthodox Council. By the “hell of post Vatican II” I was referring to the state of open warfare that followed that Council between liberals/modernists and traditional/orthodox. This warfare was not the doing of any of the popes who followed VII but flowed from the egotism of many individuals both lay and clerical who believed themselves empowered by VII. In this sense I think you can certainly say that the post VII period has not been a happy time for the Church. Sedevacantism is in fact part of that “hell” being as much an abandonment of the Barque of Peter as was protestantism. Anyone who separates themselves from the Church is guilty of grave sin no matter what their motives.
 
Itis funny The Lfebvreists and sede Vaticanists, who have a Special affinity for Pius XII .If he had to contend with these people he would not be as long suffering as contemporay popes have been. He wold have summoned the entire Curia to Saint Peters and in Full Pontificals. He would have invoked the most severe form of Excomunication on them all .
 
He couldn’t sling mud on John Paul II so relying on people short
memory he attacks another pope of blessed memory. We should
pray for his repentance of this outrage before he dies and come clean. As for myself Pius XII should be canonised and for this I pray.
 
Luciano Miceli:
He couldn’t sling mud on John Paul II so relying on people short
memory he attacks another pope of blessed memory. We should
pray for his repentance of this outrage before he dies and come clean. As for myself Pius XII should be canonised and for this I pray.
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Who dumped on Pope Pius?
 
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JKirkLVNV:
Who dumped on Pope Pius?
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I was wondering that too :mad:
 
catholicleague.org has a really good special report series on Pope Pius XII. It gives neat little tidbits like how the New York Times ran editorials extolling the Pope for speaking out against nazism. In Triumph by H.W. Crocker, he talks about how it’s estimated that Pope Pius XII saved as many as 800,000 Jews. It really sickens me how people feel the need to tear down anyone who does good to make themselves feel better about their own lack of achievement. They usually don’t even know what they’re doing; they think they are “intellectual” and know the “true story” behind what the simpleton mass majority takes for granted. It’s egotism and snobbery and slander. I know the good Lord will make things right in the end, so i just pray for these propagators of lies, especially since i used to be one and feel i must do what i can to help them understand the destruction of their ways. It’s pride to the core, and by chipping away at the obvious falsities on the outside, you can sometimes get down to the root of the problem. I’m sure the good Pope prays for them more than anyone here on earth.
 
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JOHNYJ:
Itis funny The Lfebvreists and sede Vaticanists, who have a Special affinity for Pius XII .If he had to contend with these people he would not be as long suffering as contemporay popes have been. He wold have summoned the entire Curia to Saint Peters and in Full Pontificals. He would have invoked the most severe form of Excomunication on them all .
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LOL - it’s funny - you could say almost the same exact thing about his reaction if he had to deal with a lot of the current Cardinals and Bishops. Can you imagine Pope Pius XII standing on a stage in Assissi with bunch of non-Christian “religious leaders”? Or receiving some mark on his forehead by some Hindu mystic? No, of course you can’t.
 
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Genesis315:
Has the beatification process been initiated for him yet?
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Yes. In fact, I heard something on Catholic Radio today that there is suppose to be a meeting soon at the Vatican on his beatification.

PF
 
Hmmm … the poll is looking very intersting. Those under 50 who would not have known Pius XII and therefore could not have had the attachment that comes from experiencing him also seem firmly in favour of him. Does this indicate the growing sense of return to a more traditional understanding of the faith??

I saw a recent report out about young people in Australia. For the first time in 30 years more under 30’s voted for the conservative party than the liberal party. Young people also respond to social questions in a recent survey than their grandparents (ie babyboomers).

It seems to me the wheel is turning and that the hysteria of many boomers these days is because they feel their world slipping away from them. Just a thought.
 
I’m under 30 and voted all for Pius XII. From what I’ve read of him, he deserves the title “the Great” just as much as John Paul II; although it’s hard for someone my age to make such a judgment.

ps. Innocent I also voted for the conservative party at the last federal election…
 
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Atreyu:
I’m under 30 and voted all for Pius XII. From what I’ve read of him, he deserves the title “the Great” just as much as John Paul II; although it’s hard for someone my age to make such a judgment.

ps. Innocent I also voted for the conservative party at the last federal election…
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👍 on Pius XII and 👍 for the Coalition. Now for 5 in a row 😃

Also I didn’t realise that my previous post needed editing. It should have read that young people are more conservative on social questions than their grandparents.
 
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InnocentIII:
Hmmm … the poll is looking very intersting. Those under 50 who would not have known Pius XII and therefore could not have had the attachment that comes from experiencing him also seem firmly in favour of him. Does this indicate the growing sense of return to a more traditional understanding of the faith??

I saw a recent report out about young people in Australia. For the first time in 30 years more under 30’s voted for the conservative party than the liberal party. Young people also respond to social questions in a recent survey than their grandparents (ie babyboomers).

It seems to me the wheel is turning and that the hysteria of many boomers these days is because they feel their world slipping away from them. Just a thought.
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Lets be careful to distinguish between conservatism in the Church and conservatism in politics. The latter can be quite un-Christian and, in fact, I have read that Benedict XVI would consider socialism to be more consistent with the Gospel than capitalism. Obviously we may presume that he would not be approving of those forms of socialism which are atheistic or which are based on class struggle.
 
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