Okay, I still couldn’t get to volume 5; but as I promised here are the sources of the rest of your quotes.
"Christianity…is a perfect pack of nonsense…the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167);
These are deliberately pulled out of the context to misrepresent the quote. The complete quote is as follows:
There is no nation now that acknowledges the hand of God; there is not a king, potentate, nor ruler that acknowledges his jurisdiction. We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense. Men talk about civilization; but I do not want to say much about that, for I have seen enough of it. Myself and hundreds of the Elders around me have seen its pomp, parade, and glory; and what is it? It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century.
This statement was appropriate for the time it was spoken. At that time the LDS Church was suffering a lot of persecution from the churches of the day, and this is a reflection of that.
"Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." - Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, 10:127
This one was accurately quoted, but again out of context. Here is the full context
Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom. There is no people that have held communion with God, no true church, priesthood or authority, no medium of communication between God and man for church government, to dictate, regulated manage and control the affairs of his kingdom upon the earth.
How do you conclude from that that Mormons are not Christian? It is a fundamental principle of the LDS Church that the Christian church which Jesus established apostatized, and this is merely stating that position. The LDS Church mainiains that it is a restoration of the original true Church of Christ (following the apostasy of the original one). How does that make the LDS Church not Christian?
What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing… Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God." - Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourse, 13:225
The same here. This is the full quote:
And Christianity, at the present time, is no more enlightened than other systems have been. What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing; yet these very men assume the right and power to tell others what they shall and what they shall not believe in. Why, so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God. Our Government is engaged just now in an act of this kind. Our legislators would tell me what I shall and shall not believe in, what shall be the course of my morals, as if they were immaculate and had been made perfect; as though they had inspiration from on high, and had found out the truth in all its richness, power and glory; as though they had conversed with the heavens and were acquainted with God.
The same argument applies as given above. How does that make LDS not Christian? It maintains that it is a restoration of the original church of Christ, after the original one apostatized. How does that make it an non-Christian church?
zerinus
), I think he is quite fair giving Mark at least a chance to explain and defend anything he wanted, even allowing him to change the subject mid-discussion and bring up examples.
Good stuff, I cant wait to hear the last two debates. I made a thread about the first debate and showed how bad Slick did, especially how he refused to properly quote the CCC passage at the end of show 1.
