What do you think of this declaration of faith?

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I found this declaration of faith on a non-Catholic website:

We believe in one God, the Creator, who is Spirit,
invisible, eternal, omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent,
who manifests himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I am trying to figure out why this should disturb me. Is it because as a Catholic I am most comfortable in calling the Father creator, and that the statement confuses the work of the Persons of the Trinity?
 
The heresy, there I do believe is “modalism”.

God is not a spirit that manifests as the Trinity. God Himself is the Trinity; Three in One and One in Three. There is no higher plane above the Trinity out of which the Trinity comes to expression.
 
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct persons.
Together they form the one Triune God.
Manifestation does not take into account the differing roles of each person in the Trinity and the interrationship of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
The Trinity is a mystery that cannot be adequately explained in human words.
 
thank you, Deb. I know my faith but sometimes when I read something I just know is wrong, but on the surface seems okay, it’s hard to come up with the words in the right order to explain it.
 
Rocky said:
I found this declaration of faith on a non-Catholic website:

We believe in one God, the Creator, who is Spirit,
invisible, eternal, omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent,
who manifests himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I am trying to figure out why this should disturb me. Is it because as a Catholic I am most comfortable in calling the Father creator, and that the statement confuses the work of the Persons of the Trinity?
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“Manifests himself as Father,Son and Holy Spirit” is a heresy called modalism (someone else already pointed that out). Oneness Pentacostals believe this, and that twisted form of the Nicean creed is wrong.
Since it uses the plural “we” instead of the singular “I” it must be the Nicean creed.
 
Rocky said:
I found this declaration of faith on a non-Catholic website:

We believe in one God, the Creator, who is Spirit,
invisible, eternal, omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent,
who manifests himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I am trying to figure out why this should disturb me. Is it because as a Catholic I am most comfortable in calling the Father creator, and that the statement confuses the work of the Persons of the Trinity?
Click to expand...
It’s sounds heretical and has a modalism heresy sound to it.
 
Rocky said:
I found this declaration of faith on a non-Catholic website:

We believe in one God, the Creator, who is Spirit,
invisible, eternal, omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent,
who manifests himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I am trying to figure out why this should disturb me. Is it because as a Catholic I am most comfortable in calling the Father creator, and that the statement confuses the work of the Persons of the Trinity?
Click to expand...
I am not Catholic, but this does sound like Modalism. Although Modalist believe that God can only manifest in one of the three at one time.

However, althoug I do believe in all 3 persons being distinct (Jesus’ Baptism alone disproves Modalism), because The Father was in Heaven, the Spirit had descended on Jesus in the form of a Dove, and Jesus is in the water.) He could not be a ventriloquist.

However, all 3 persons in the Trinity should be called the Creator.

Jesus as the creator. Since God spoke the world into existence, and Jesus is the Word. That is why believing in the Biblical creation account is important.

**

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made
…
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

Hebrews 1

1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

Col 1
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Gen 1

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

**

So although I believe in 3 Distinct Persons, and one God, All 3 Persons and the 1 God are the Creator.
 
This scriptural support you provide gives no proof of the Holy Spirit being God.

I suggest you look at John.😉

However, that will too be controversial.:eek: :cool:
rbarcia said:
I am not Catholic, but this does sound like Modalism. Although Modalist believe that God can only manifest in one of the three at one time.

However, althoug I do believe in all 3 persons being distinct (Jesus’ Baptism alone disproves Modalism), because The Father was in Heaven, the Spirit had descended on Jesus in the form of a Dove, and Jesus is in the water.) He could not be a ventriloquist.

However, all 3 persons in the Trinity should be called the Creator.

Jesus as the creator. Since God spoke the world into existence, and Jesus is the Word. That is why believing in the Biblical creation account is important.

**

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made
…
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

Hebrews 1

1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

Col 1
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Gen 1

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God** was hovering over the face of the waters.

So although I believe in 3 Distinct Persons, and one God, All 3 Persons and the 1 God are the Creator.
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Hellisreal said:
A quick google showed this:

hfcnaz.org/aboutus/aboutus_what_we_believe.html

Similar but not exact, I am still looking.

Heretical yes.
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This one is different from the one the op posted. I was married in this church (in another area) and I assure you they have the trinity correct.

What was the site the original post was from?? It sounds odd but Id like to see the rest they could just be trying to explain the Triinity in another way, its not the easiest thing to explain.

🙂
 
Kitty_Chan said:
This one is different from the one the op posted. I was married in this church (in another area) and I assure you they have the trinity correct.

What was the site the original post was from?? It sounds odd but Id like to see the rest they could just be trying to explain the Triinity in another way, its not the easiest thing to explain.

🙂
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I cant find it anywhere.

Of course it cant be easy to explain.

The Father reveals the Son, through the Son we know the Father,

But who reveals the Holy Spirit?

😛

Its there, in the Joahine comma,(not a reliable text) and lots of verses patched together, but not in one verse, not clear.

Guess you gotta admit, you dont have a basis for it in scripture. You can mount a defense, but without early fathers you are doomed.😦
 
Hellisreal said:
I cant find it anywhere.

Of course it cant be easy to explain.

The Father reveals the Son, through the Son we know the Father,

But who reveals the Holy Spirit?

😛

Its there, in the Joahine comma,(not a reliable text) and lots of verses patched together, but not in one verse, not clear.

Guess you gotta admit, you dont have a basis for it in scripture. You can mount a defense, but without early fathers you are doomed.😦
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I think Paul talks about when we cant pray the Spirit helps us through groanings, Id have to look where that was cant remember right now.

My basic understanding is the Holy Spirit helps you pray to Jesus when you cannot, and or helps bring things to your mind to pray about.

But I hear you its easier to explain God, Jesus there is a “human” likeness associated with them, But not with the Spirit.

Is that making sense and am I following you? 🙂

ps whats Joahine comma? a early church book of some sort?
 
Kitty_Chan said:
I could be wrong but it seems they have the Trinity right. unless theres some odd wording Im not noticing, but looking at the whole thing seems fine.
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I am mad the link was not posted in the OP and wasted time I could have spent on other things!:mad:
 
Kitty_Chan said:
I could be wrong but it seems they have the Trinity right. unless theres some odd wording Im not noticing, but looking at the whole thing seems fine.
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Hi Kitty chan,

Yes, I think they know who Jesus is and what he has done for us. But it seems to me that while their statements about Jesus are correct, the first statement that I quoted really does not “take into account the differing roles of each person of the Trinity and the interrelationship of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.” as DebChris stated earlier. And it seems to me that while we acknowledge that the Trinity is a mystery, it is still is important how we try to explain our belief in this mystery. Part of what makes this important is because we all want others to know us for who we really are. We don’t want others to just make up stuff about us, even if it is flattering. Doesn’t God want us to know him in his Godhead for who he really is?
 
I understand the Statements of Faith are supposed to make it clear to others interested in your church exactly what you believe in.

I agree the first statement is kinda off, then the I think next 2 clear up Jesus and the Holy Spirt, but its not totally readable. Originally before I started with out with my own business I was a graphic artist and no one has to convince me that readability is key for any message. Not to reduce faith of anyone to advertising but its essentially communication and it needs to be clear.

I always go that a person who know absolutly nothing about the topic should be able to read whatever it is and understand the message.

As a point of conversation, anytime I read a statement of faith I run the Nicene Creed through my head and compare to see if the statement holds up. 🙂
 
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