What do you think ? Should Extraordinary ministers and other tasks in the Church be predominately men or woman?

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KathleenElsie said:
I believe that they should be men. That being said the men need to come forward and be of service. If a man is in the church building and is trained for the position then he should be the first asked to preform the duties needed. When there are no men available then women should be asked to serve.

I find it sad to see our male Altar servers sitting in the pews and only girls at the Altar. Our church even uses female acolytes at Mass.
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I am in total agreement.
 
Just a correction. There are no female acolytes. We call altar servers acolytes but as an order, that is male only. We do have female altar servers, as well as male altar servers. Acolytes are an order received while studying to be a transitional or permanent deacon. The transitional deacon is one who is going to be a priest. As such, in the Latin Rite, the acolyte must be unmarried if progressing to Holy Orders as a priest. He can be married if he is to become a permanent deacon. We call altar servers acolytes, because originally, that was the name of the altar servers, (male only) who were progressing to Holy Orders. Just want to keep our terminology accurate.
Deacon Ed B
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
Just a correction. There are no female acolytes. We call altar servers acolytes but as an order, that is male only. We do have female altar servers, as well as male altar servers. Acolytes are an order received while studying to be a transitional or permanent deacon. The transitional deacon is one who is going to be a priest. As such, in the Latin Rite, the acolyte must be unmarried if progressing to Holy Orders as a priest. He can be married if he is to become a permanent deacon. We call altar servers acolytes, because originally, that was the name of the altar servers, (male only) who were progressing to Holy Orders. Just want to keep our terminology accurate.
Deacon Ed B
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Well if we want to keep the terminology accurate they are not an order. Acolyte used to be a minor order but that is no longer the case. And we can have instituted acolytes that are not on their way to either the permanent or transitional diaconate.
 
But on the other points, Phemie is correct.

The Acolyte used to be the lowest rank of Minor Order, and thus a clerical office.

newadvent.org/cathen/01106a.htm

And yes, a bishop may install men into the role of Acolyte at his discretion. Lincoln, Neb is one diocese that Installs men as Acolytes that are not intending on Holy Orders.
 
thanks for all your thoughts on this. There is just something to it when I see men up there rather than woman.
Deacon, I appreciate what you say about people tripping over my feet but in my defense, it doesn’t take me any longer to receive kneeling than standing. I did get the okay from Father as i mentioned previously and i do allow a comfortable space between the person in front of me so that the person behind me follows suit. I have been kneeling for about two years and have never had anyone stumble over me. Sometimes I wonder if the Lord is teaching me humility through all this because it was a very hard thing for me to do (kneel for communion) I was very self conscious about doing it. My heart would pound and I would go into a cold sweat as I asked the Lord to come into my heart and guide me or give me a sign that this was in fact what He wanted me to do to receive Him. I will honestly say that almost every time something would happen that would confirm.
Before I knelt I would ask God to help me in my disbelief everyday at daily Mass. I knew that we as Catholics believed in the true presence in my head but it was not in my heart. I didnt get it. How could this be? Once He showed me , how could I help but kneel before Him.
I’m truing to Love God above all things but it’s not easy, it’s a struggle for me. I’ve led a very unGodly life and I have a lot to learn and many ways that yet need to be changed.
 
If that is OK with your priest, then it’s obviously OK with me. In reply to another post, the order of the minor orders received were 1. porter, 2. lector, 3. Exorcist, and 4. acolyte. At this time. only the acolyte, deacon and or priest/bishop may purify the sacred vessels.
Deacon Ed B
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
If that is OK with your priest, then it’s obviously OK with me. In reply to another post, the order of the minor orders received were 1. porter, 2. lector, 3. Exorcist, and 4. acolyte. At this time. only the acolyte, deacon and or priest/bishop may purify the sacred vessels.
Deacon Ed B
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Well we might only call them acolyte, but the girls dress the part, do the work and handle the vessels the same as the acolytes did in our old parish. They sit next to father and not with the altar boys/girls. (sorry have a hard time with altar servers). So what do we call them? On the schedule they call them acolytes when we receive out monthly schedule.
 
They do not however help purify the sacred vessels after Communion. That is for a true acolyte, deacon and priest/bishop only. All male only. If they are, there is something very wrong going on.
Deacon Ed B
 
I prefer men also up on the Altar as only Men should be on the altar, unfortunately we do not have enough Priests, Deacons, Lectors and most Dioceses do not institute Acolytes, so we are left with the situation created by our Bishops and us that we have now. (my wife reads as we don’t have enough men to step up and act like men)

Since we don’t have enough Catholic families having enough kids and actually raising them Catholic we don’t have enough Priests\Nuns\Deacons\Lectors\strong Catholics to support our faith properly.

It is both our fault and the fault of Bishops who have dropped the ball and allowed the Holy Faith to become something of convenience rather than a way of life. So we now have the present situation, which some people like.

Some people like not having enough priests, they do not want only men up on the Altar, they discourage boys from becoming Priests in every way possible, by enouraging altar girls, enouraging disrespect for Priests, the Mass and discouraging vocations. They do not want full seminaries with strong faithful Priests. I will see a lot of this at Religious Congress this week in Los Angeles, but that is another story. In todays narcissistic society, everyone wants attention rather than being in the pews praying.

Mary chose the best part, compared to Martha.

God Bless
Scylla

(no priest cleans the vessels in my parish, I live in Southern California)
 
Most Catholics probably don’t actively plot their liberal agendas in the Church, (though some do, unfortunately.) From what I’ve seen, most simply don’t give the matter much thought at all. Things are the way they are, and that’s it. We need to pray not only for holy priests, but for holy families who will encourage their boys to be altar servers and involved in liturgical ministry. And offer encouragement ourselves when the opportunity arises.
 
JMJ_Coder

I totally agree with you on the point that we shouldn’t or don’t really need the extraordinary ministers.We come to Mass mainly to receive our Lord. Some think we come here to socialize and sing songs together. I know that we come together as a community to worship but the most important thing we do is to receive Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. SO what if it takes an extra 5 or 7 minutes. Realistically that is all it would take if that in most parishes.I would love to go around and actually time communion in parishes that use the communion rail and have two Priests versus parishes that use 15 extraordinary ministers and have the population. I have attended both and the time is a non issue.

I don’t like it when the choir sings through the entire communion. I have a hard time focusing on my prayers of praise and thanksgiving after communion. I guess that’s why i like the daily Mass, it’s quiet.
 
Eilish_Maura said:
When you wonder if women should be in some of these ministries remember who it was that Jesus appeared to that first Easter morning and who brought word to the Apostles.
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I think that the Church is quite clear on all of these matters. I don’t think we should substitute our opinion for that of the Church.

Priests and Deacons: Only men.
Acolytes: Only Male

With proper training and institution, Lectors and EMHC’s, etc. are open to the laity. When gender is a requirement, the Church says so. Silence can be as intentional as non-silence.

With regard to Mary of Magdela, you make a good point but it is enhanced when we contemplate the role of the Holy Women. Tradition teaches that it was the Holy Women who cared for the body of Jesus when He came down from the cross. If women can be entrusted with this most sacred task, I’m sure women can be entrusted w/ being Lectors and EMHC’s. It brings tears to my eyes when I contemplate the scene in the Delorous Passion where while Mary balmed Jesus wounds, Mary of Magdela kissed and pressed her face to the feet of Jesus. But if you want Scripture verses, it was also she who poured the perfume over Christ’s head. Or Veronica on the Way of the Cross.

My point: It was the Holy Women had many significant tasks in the care of Jesus. If we remove all women from the Mass, I do not think we are properly respecting the role of the Holy Women.
John_Lilburne said:
Church documents express a preference for men as EMHCs, which I agree with.

From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“100. In the absence of an instituted acolyte, lay ministers may be deputed to serve at the altar and assist the priest and the deacon; they may carry the cross, the candles, the thurible, the bread, the wine, and the water, and they may also be deputed to distribute Holy Communion as extraordinary ministers.”

Only men can become instituted acolytes (Code of Canon Law, canon 230), and they are to be used before other EMHCs.

The liturgical books encourage the use of instituted acolytes, particularly the 1984 Ceremonial of Bishops, n. 28 “But in celebrations presided over by the bishop it is fitting that all such ministerial functions be carried out by formally instituted acolytes …”.

Any man has the possibility of being instituted as an acolyte, no woman has. So, if all else is equal, the priest should choose men to be EMHCs, in the absence of instituted acolytes.

I would apply the same reasoning to the choice of readers. If there is no instituted lector, men should be the preferred choice to read. This provides encouragement for them to become instituted lectors.

The habitual use of men in these functions would also reduce the pressure on bishops in deciding to instituted men as lectors and acolytes. Many bishops seem reluctant to institute men to these ministries, because then women who do these functions will be denied their role. If more people encouraged women not to take up these roles, priests would stop choosing them and bishops may be more prepared to instituted lectors and acolytes.
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John, I’m not sure that I see in your post where men are preferred as EMHC’s. What I see is that because the Church only allows men to be acolytes, you infer that it applies to other roles. As I said before, when the Church says it is open to the laity and makes no statement regarding gender, it is more logical to infer that gender is not a requirement since the Church is clear when gender is a requirement.

Furthermore, I don’t agree that we should use a form of manipulation in an attempt to get more insituted Lectors and Acolytes. Although not of the magnitude as Deacons, instituted Lectors and Acolytes are a call. Maybe the Church needs to do more to make men aware of this call but I’m not sure that denying women an opportunity to be of service in the tradition of the Holy Women is appropriate.
 
neither. We should do away with them.
They are a distraction, 99% abuse the eucharist and don’t believe in it.
 
ucb4ume said:
thanks for all your thoughts on this. There is just something to it when I see men up there rather than woman.
Deacon, I appreciate what you say about people tripping over my feet but in my defense, it doesn’t take me any longer to receive kneeling than standing. I did get the okay from Father as i mentioned previously and i do allow a comfortable space between the person in front of me so that the person behind me follows suit. I have been kneeling for about two years and have never had anyone stumble over me. Sometimes I wonder if the Lord is teaching me humility through all this because it was a very hard thing for me to do (kneel for communion) I was very self conscious about doing it. My heart would pound and I would go into a cold sweat as I asked the Lord to come into my heart and guide me or give me a sign that this was in fact what He wanted me to do to receive Him. I will honestly say that almost every time something would happen that would confirm.
Before I knelt I would ask God to help me in my disbelief everyday at daily Mass. I knew that we as Catholics believed in the true presence in my head but it was not in my heart. I didnt get it. How could this be? Once He showed me , how could I help but kneel before Him.
I’m truing to Love God above all things but it’s not easy, it’s a struggle for me. I’ve led a very unGodly life and I have a lot to learn and many ways that yet need to be changed.
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What a beautiful post. We can all learn a thing or two from you. I know what you mean by your “pounding heart & cold sweat”. I’ve been going to the TLM for about 6 wks. now & STILL have not had the courage to wear a head-covering though I feel that I should & I want to. . I fear that people will think that I’m being holier-than-thou…yet about 1/3 of the women there have veils or mantillas. Perhaps I’ll find the courage you show & quit worrying about silliness like “what will people think”.
 
Eilish_Maura said:
When you wonder if women should be in some of these ministries remember who it was that Jesus appeared to that first Easter morning and who brought word to the Apostles.
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I do & then I think about the fact that these women were not apostles, themselves. Jesus did not pick one woman to preach His gospel & start His Church. You don’t think maybe that He just loved the women of the Bible for themselves, do you?? Even if they were “just” Moms & homemakers & teachers of the children & caretakers for the animals & spinners of the wool, etc., etc. ECT. Mary Magdalene, Martha & Mary… Surely He didn’t value them since they had no “important, up-front” role in His Church?? Surely not, doncha know that women must DO what men DO in order to be their equal. :rolleyes:
 
Let’s talk about the necessity of extraordinary ministers. At my parish some Masses (not all) have 1200 in the congregation. With 3 priests and a deacon, we could have two teams of ciborium and chalice. If only 80% receive, and it takes 4 seconds per person (the chalice is the bottleneck operation in the system) that has distribution of Eucharist lasting 32 minutes. Run the math. That looks like a sufficient reason to use “extraordinary ministers.” We have five Masses each Sunday and two on Saturday evening.

Matthew
 
I don’t care whether it is a man or a woman. Women can be great at all those ministries…as can men. As far as the readings and feeling Christ, I hear Him no matter who is reading. I don’t think we feel Christ more because men read; we should feel Him and listen to Him period. It isn’t about the person reading. Both men and women can have strong voices as well, but that isn’t really the focus either.

I do believe only men should be priests/deacons/bishops. That is not a role for women, but the ministries you mentioned can have women involved.
 
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