What do you understand by the word - Adultery ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rumpelstiltskin
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
R

Rumpelstiltskin

Guest
Let’s say you live in the times of the old testament, where some men take more than 1 wife. Eg. Abraham, Isaac etc.

Before you take the 2nd wife, I am sure that you would have found her desirable enough to be a wife. BUT…according to many interpretations, a married man who desires a woman who is not his wife (at least not yet the 2nd wife) would be committing an act of adultery, in his heart. So, the man actually SINs before he gets married.

What do you understand by the word ‘Adultery’ ?

.
 
Mark 10:6-8:
6 But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’ 7 ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh.
Click to expand...
 
Rumpelstiltskin said:
Let’s say you live in the times of the old testament, where some men take more than 1 wife. Eg. Abraham, Isaac etc.

Before you take the 2nd wife, I am sure that you would have found her desirable enough to be a wife. BUT…according to many interpretations, a married man who desires a woman who is not his wife (at least not yet the 2nd wife) would be committing an act of adultery, in his heart. So, the man actually SINs before he gets married.

What do you understand by the word ‘Adultery’ ?

.
Click to expand...
If I understand the NT correctly, there are two ways to commit adultery: physically and mentally.

Physical adultery is done by a married person having sex (IMO, in broad terms - not just intercourse) with someone he/she is not married to.

Jesus spoke of mental adultery as lusting after a woman not one’s wife. IMO, Jesus told us so because He wanted us to see how devious sin is and to show us how sinful we are. All have sinned (all who’s faculties are able to understand right from wrong).

The claim of a man who says he did not commit adultery with a woman because, ‘I didn’t go all the way’ becomes false if mental lust is also adultery.
 
I would say adultery is the intent of the heart.

BibleGateway References:

1.General scriptures concerning (Genesis 20:3; 2 Samuel 12:14; Job 24:15-18;31:1,9-12; Proverbs 2)
2.See LASCIVIOUSNESS
3.See RAPE
4.FIGURATIVE » See WHOREDOM
5.FIGURATIVE » See IDOLATRY
6.INSTANCES OF » Sodomites (Genesis 19:5-8)
7.INSTANCES OF » Lot (Genesis 19:31-38)
8.INSTANCES OF » Shechem (Genesis 34:2)
9.INSTANCES OF » Reuben (Genesis 35:22)
10.INSTANCES OF » Judah (Genesis 38:1-24)
11.INSTANCES OF » Potiphar’s wife (Genesis 39:7-12)
12.INSTANCES OF » The Levite’s concubine (Judges 19:2)
13.INSTANCES OF » The Gibeahites (Judges 19:22-25)
14.INSTANCES OF » Gilead (Judges 11:1)
15.INSTANCES OF » Samson (Judges 16:1)
16.INSTANCES OF » Sons of Eli (1 Samuel 2:22)
17.INSTANCES OF » David (2 Samuel 11:1-5)
18.INSTANCES OF » Amnon (2 Samuel 13:1-20)
19.INSTANCES OF » Absalom (2 Samuel 16:22)
20.INSTANCES OF » Israelites (Exodus 32:6,25; Jeremiah 29:23; Ezekiel 22:9-11;33:26; Hosea 7:4)
21.INSTANCES OF » Herod (Matthew 14:3,4; Mark 6:17,18; Luke 3:19)
22.INSTANCES OF » The Samaritan woman ( John 4:17,18)
23.INSTANCES OF » The woman brought to Jesus in the temple ( John 8:4-11)
24.INSTANCES OF » Corinthians (1 Corinthians 5:1-5)
25.INSTANCES OF » Heathen (Ephesians 4:17-19; 1 Peter 4:3)
 
Rumpelstiltskin said:
Let’s say you live in the times of the old testament, where some men take more than 1 wife. Eg. Abraham, Isaac etc.

Before you take the 2nd wife, I am sure that you would have found her desirable enough to be a wife. BUT…according to many interpretations, a married man who desires a woman who is not his wife (at least not yet the 2nd wife) would be committing an act of adultery, in his heart. So, the man actually SINs before he gets married.

What do you understand by the word ‘Adultery’ ?

.
Click to expand...
Well, the same prohibitions against apply to unmarried people considering taking a first spouse. If I lust (‘desire’ is too vague) after my fiance, I sin.

The situation is no different for someone taking a second wife than it would be for someone taking a first wife–no lusting after someone who isn’t your spouse. Finding someone desirable is not synonymous with lusting after them.

In any case, it’s a moot point, since polygamy is no longer permitted.
 
Moscati said:
Well, the same prohibitions against apply to unmarried people considering taking a first spouse. If I lust (‘desire’ is too vague) after my fiance, I sin.

The situation is no different for someone taking a second wife than it would be for someone taking a first wife–no lusting after someone who isn’t your spouse. Finding someone desirable is not synonymous with lusting after them.

In any case, it’s a moot point, since polygamy is no longer permitted.
Click to expand...
Let’s not avoid the question. Sin is a sin, regardless of whether it was committed back then or now.

I asked…if you are living in those times. Not whether this sin can be committed now.

Hoping for a better answer.
 
campeador said:
Because?
Click to expand...
Because I’m asking it under the premise of having a wife AFTER the 1st. Which, prior to its matrimonial rites will ‘undergo’ a period of desiring a woman who is not the wife. Which if I get you right, the man SINs for desiring other women (even if they eventually marry him).

IN which case, some of these great men would be deemed to have sinned, would they not?
 
Rumpelstiltskin said:
Because I’m asking it under the premise of having a wife AFTER the 1st. Which, prior to its matrimonial rites will ‘undergo’ a period of desiring a woman who is not the wife. Which if I get you right, the man SINs for desiring other women (even if they eventually marry him).

IN which case, some of these great men would be deemed to have sinned, would they not?
Click to expand...
Romans 3:23 :
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Click to expand...
 
Why don’t you just tell me the point you’re trying to make and we’ll go from there, OK?
 
campeador said:
Why don’t you just tell me the point you’re trying to make and we’ll go from there, OK?
Click to expand...
Believe it or not, I’m not trying to make any point. I put this question merely to prompt readers to put on their thinking hats. I do of course have a certain idea of what constitutes adultery here, but I may be wrong 🙂
 
Rumpelstiltskin said:
Because I’m asking it under the premise of having a wife AFTER the 1st. Which, prior to its matrimonial rites will ‘undergo’ a period of desiring a woman who is not the wife. Which if I get you right, the man SINs for desiring other women (even if they eventually marry him).

IN which case, some of these great men would be deemed to have sinned, would they not?
Click to expand...
A second marriage is no more likely to be preceded (or accompanied) by sinful lust than a first marriage. These second marriages were just as likely, for example, to be arranged for financial or political motives without the couple even having met beforehand, let alone had any opportunity for sinful desire or lust.

Take Abraham’s relationship with Hagar. There is not the slightest suggestion that Abraham lusted after her in any fashion, or even particularly desired her. Their relationship was solely at Sarah’s insistence, and solely for the non-lustful and non-sinful (so they thought at least) purpose of begetting a son and heir for Abraham.

Assuming God didn’t disapprove of these multiple marriages (and He doesn’t seem to have, particularly), then there’s no reason that the mere fact of taking a second wife should be assumed to be a sin.
 
LilyM said:
A second marriage is no more likely to be preceded (or accompanied) by sinful lust than a first marriage. These second marriages were just as likely, for example, to be arranged for financial or political motives without the couple even having met beforehand, let alone had any opportunity for sinful desire or lust.

Take Abraham’s relationship with Hagar. There is not the slightest suggestion that Abraham lusted after her in any fashion, or even particularly desired her. Their relationship was solely at Sarah’s insistence, and solely for the non-lustful and non-sinful (so they thought at least) purpose of begetting a son and heir for Abraham.

Assuming God didn’t disapprove of these multiple marriages (and He doesn’t seem to have, particularly), then there’s no reason that the mere fact of taking a second wife should be assumed to be a sin.
Click to expand...
Lily…again you have showed that you skew your thinking using situations that fit your preference. Do you know the marriage of Rachel & Leah to Jacob? Go read it.

Jacob definitely desired Rachel even though he had already married Leah.

And Jacob is the Father of Israel.
.
 
Off the top of my head (and always ready to submit to futher clarification from the Church) I would draw a distinction between the natural healthy desire between male and female, ordered towards forming marriage, mutual pleasure and through the marital act, the forming children as opposed to an inordinate unhealthy lust, ordered towards self gratification using another person as a means toward that end.

Under this schema, a husband can have a sinful desire for his wife, and Jacob can have a healthy unsinful desire to be joined in matrimony to the beautiful Rachel

Regards Doc
 
DrDave said:
Off the top of my head (and always ready to submit to futher clarification from the Church) I would draw a distinction between the natural healthy desire between male and female, ordered towards forming marriage, mutual pleasure and through the marital act, the forming children as opposed to an inordinate unhealthy lust, ordered towards self gratification using another person as a means toward that end.

Under this schema, a husband can have a sinful desire for his wife, and Jacob can have a healthy unsinful desire to be joined in matrimony to the beautiful Rachel

Regards Doc
Click to expand...
So, to you, having a desire to have child with a woman who is not your wife is not adultery ?
 
Rumpelstiltskin said:
So, to you, having a desire to have child with a woman who is not your wife is not adultery ?
Click to expand...
If I may rephrase, I would suggest that having a desire to take a woman to wife with a view towards an eventual family is not necessarily adultery.

As a (mostly) happily married man 😉 I can recognise that other women are attractive, both in their physical appearance, and in their natures as people. Further I can recognise that the possibility of sharing a life and a family with some of these women is not entirely distasteful, Indeed for many years I harbored a desire to see polygamy introduced into the Catholic Church, reasoning (poorly) from St Paul that if love is truly not jealous, then my 1st wife shouldn’t have a problem with it. After all the only scripture I could find against polygamy was ‘man shall not serve two masters’ - and I’m not sure that was meant to be applied to two wives, and ‘the two shall become one’ - and then that composite one and another one shall become what? 1.5?

What convinced me that polygamy was inappropriate for any true follower of Christ, was Humane Vitae, and it’s description of the nature of marital love. This is not something distasteful, or something dirty, but something beautiful, a gift from above, a gift that once received should be held so dearly ‘forsaking all others’ not deeming all others to be somehow unworthy, but recognising that the road before you is so special that one chooses not to follow any other not because there is anything intrinsically wrong with each of those roads not taken, but because changing mid journey would be disrespectful to the gift already received.

Similarly for the priesthood, celibacy is not an assertion that women or marriage are somehow dirty or distasteful, rather that they are a good that one freely gives up in service of the Christ.

I realise I mashed up a few metaphors there but I hope you grasp my meaning.

Regards Doc
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top