What does, “Believe in Jesus” mean?

[ryanoneil]

I’d argue that believe and obey are two different things. Also, ‘believe’ is just a word and the Greek word is ‘pisteuo’ (used in John 3:16, etc.) and it does not connote obedience.

The Greek words for faith/believe are “pistis” and “pisteuo.” the meaning of the Greek word also includes “obedience.” Obedience is separate from faith, and something that must be added to faith to be justified.

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him. (John 3:36) “He who believes (pisteo) in the Son has eternal life; He who does not OBEY (apeitheo) the Son shall not see life.”

Therefore, its value is for you who have faith, but for those without faith: “The stone which the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and “A stone that will make people stumble, and a rock that will make them fall.” They stumble by disobeying the word, as is their destiny. (1 Pet 2:7-8) This means that “belief” includes “obedience,” and since Jesus commanded us to do good works and endure to the end to be saved, true “faith” in Christ includes doing the “works” that He commanded us to do.

scripturecatholic.com

Peace,

Ryan

 

[planten]

Jesus said to the Apostles: whoever hears you, hears me and my Father in Heaven.

Jesus built a Church. Jesus commanded us to eat His flesh and drink His blood. the Eucharist.

Jesus says obey the commandments.

believing is not just a word. believing is also living the Word of God.

“In the beginning was the Word and the Word became flesh.”

**Thanks for guidance. All your post about the acts and words of Jesus are correct and good. But somehave symbolic meaning. Jesus used to talk in parables. So here also we have to understand the words in symbols, like the flesh and blood of Jesus. What he said was perfectly right because he was being betrayed.

He said, “Just obey the commandments”. Were these the Ten Commandments of the Jews? Because he himself was a perfect practicing Jew. So was his mother and all the disciples. So order was for the Commandments of the Torah to be obeyed? Did he?
he was right "whoever hears you, hears me and my Father in Heaven.

Jesus built a Church. Jesus commanded us to eat His flesh and drink His blood. the Eucharist. "
It was alright to build a church for praying to the God. I could not believe in the word being flesh, unless that is also metaphoric. Otherwise I love Jesus and his mother and his true disciples.**

 

[Zenas]

“Believe in Jesus” can be found in several passages of the New Testament, for example,

John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.”
Acts 16:30-31: [A]nd after [the jailor] brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

However, in both of these and other passages as well, we see that “belief” involves a commitment to Christ and we see the requirement for baptism.

 

[Zenas]

The sacraments are generally not 7 in Protestant churches. Most of the time, if sacraments are used, it’s just 2 (baptism & eucharist) whether they call them sacraments or not. The reason for 2 and not 7 is that those two are the only 2 completely defined in Scripture.

Most Protestant churches will not admit to having any sacraments. Baptism and the eucharist (which they call the Lord’s supper) are more often referred to as ordinances. Protestants don’t believe grace is conferred on them through any overt act that they do. They believe grace only comes from belief in Jesus Christ as their personal savior, although the words “personal savior” are nowhere to be found in the New Testament.

I have to take issue with you about baptism and the eucharist being the only two sacraments completely defined in Scripture. The most clearly and completely defined sacrament in Scripture is annointing the sick, found in James 5:14-15.

Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.

 

[Steven_John]

**Thanks for guidance. All your post about the acts and words of Jesus are correct and good. But somehave symbolic meaning. Jesus used to talk in parables. So here also we have to understand the words in symbols, like the flesh and blood of Jesus. What he said was perfectly right because he was being betrayed.

He said, “Just obey the commandments”. Were these the Ten Commandments of the Jews? Because he himself was a perfect practicing Jew. So was his mother and all the disciples. So order was for the Commandments of the Torah to be obeyed? Did he?
he was right "whoever hears you, hears me and my Father in Heaven.

Jesus built a Church. Jesus commanded us to eat His flesh and drink His blood. the Eucharist. "
It was alright to build a church for praying to the God. I could not believe in the word being flesh,** unless that is also metaphoric.**** Otherwise I love Jesus and his mother and his true disciples.

This is true and is a great point,

Pretty simple i made selfless sacrifice for you now do it for others
The “also” is one of its inclusiveness of the spiritual aspect.

In bold, This is a point close to truth in many religions.
The others becomes the new issue and we can fall in the trap of considering it means in “my religion”.

 

[wisdomseeker]

**Thanks for guidance. All your post about the acts and words of Jesus are correct and good. But somehave symbolic meaning. Jesus used to talk in parables. So here also we have to understand the words in symbols, like the flesh and blood of Jesus. What he said was perfectly right because he was being betrayed.

He said, “Just obey the commandments”. Were these the Ten Commandments of the Jews? Because he himself was a perfect practicing Jew. So was his mother and all the disciples. So order was for the Commandments of the Torah to be obeyed? Did he?
he was right "whoever hears you, hears me and my Father in Heaven.

Jesus built a Church. Jesus commanded us to eat His flesh and drink His blood. the Eucharist. "
It was alright to build a church for praying to the God. I could not believe in the word being flesh, unless that is also metaphoric. Otherwise I love Jesus and his mother and his true disciples.**

You go on believing it is just symbolic. as for me i believe what the Church teaches for she is the one instructed by those who were taught by Jesus at the time.

“In the beginning was the Word and the Word became flesh.”

"I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church."
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D

 

[wisdomseeker]

I’d argue that believe and obey are two different things. Also, ‘believe’ is just a word and the Greek word is ‘pisteuo’ (used in John 3:16, etc.) and it does not connote obedience.

This parable says.
A father ask both sons to do a job for him. the one son said I will do it father, but he did not. the other son said no father i will not do it, but he went and did it.
Jesus asked which one did the will the father? the first or the last?

"I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church."
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D

 

[Jimmy_B]

I’d argue that believe and obey are two different things. Also, ‘believe’ is just a word and the Greek word is ‘pisteuo’ (used in John 3:16, etc.) and it does not connote obedience.

Hello nsper7,

Thank you for your post, here is my response-

The true meaning of any word or sentence cannot be fully understood, or appreciated, in a vacuum. Context is also important and needed to understand what is meant by a word and this includes the word, “believe”.

Jesus Christ, in the Gospels, repeatedly says, “Do this…”

Jesus Christ gives instructions to His followers throughout the New Testament.

Jesus is also quoted as saying, “if you”believe”, you will do this or do that and so on.

Jesus Christ is the second person of the Holy Trinity (He is God), He wants us to obey Him and He repeatedly “tells” us, how to obey Him…

Doesn’t this mean that to, “believe in Jesus", does “connote obedience”?

Wouldn’t, not following His instructions equal disobedience?

Peace

 

[AgnosTheist]

All of them, not just the parts that we like or agree with…right?

Peace

All of them that had been taught by the apostles, which can be read in the bible.

 

[wisdomseeker]

All of them that had been taught by the apostles, which can be read in the bible.

Really! How come you can’t find in the Bible the Church that Jesus built?

**“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D…
Who has the authority?.. **

 

[Ronald_E]

What does, “Believe in Jesus” mean?

I read this statement all the time here at CAF, written by non-Catholics; “Believe in Jesus”, what does it mean?

Thank you…Peace

Jimmy, There you go again, creating a discussion that goes straight to the depths of our faith!. Thanks again.
For me to believe in Jesus is to live like Him. Belief is nothing without action. Therefore, I must give up my right to myself and must live as He lived. He gives me the freedom to dare to go into the unknown of our faith and act in a way that unites me to those who I meet on a daily basis. He gives me the freedom to love like I had never experienced before. To believe in Him is to have no limits to whom I express that love.
I am still in the process of learning how not to limit myself.

 

[nsper7]

The true meaning of any word or sentence cannot be fully understood, or appreciated, in a vacuum. Context is also important and needed to understand what is meant by a word and this includes the word, “believe”.

Correct.

Jesus Christ, in the Gospels, repeatedly says, “Do this…”

Yes, you are right.

Jesus Christ gives instructions to His followers throughout the New Testament.

Right again.

Jesus is also quoted as saying, “if you”believe”, you will do this or do that and so on.

Here is the crux of the argument right here. We both agree that Jesus gave certain commandments to His followers, but where we disagree is whether following constitutes part of belief or not.

I believe the quote you are going for is John 14:15, which reads: “If you love Me, keep* My commandments” (NKJV). Love is connected to obedience, but belief is not. Note that no passage in Scripture connects loving Christ to Salvation, but instead it connects believing in Christ to Salvation.

Jesus Christ is the second person of the Holy Trinity (He is God), He wants us to obey Him and He repeatedly “tells” us, how to obey Him…

Doesn’t this mean that to, “believe in Jesus", does “connote obedience”?

Wouldn’t, not following His instructions equal disobedience?

So far, It does not appear you have connected obedience to belief.

Also, in response to your ‘apeitheo’ comment, I point you towards the following article:

Obedience is Necessary to Receive Eternal Life

 

[Pug]

Jesus is also quoted as saying, “if you”believe”, you will do this or do that and so on.

Which “if you believe” do you mean? I don’t think you mean the ones about commanding the tree or mountain to do something?

What your comment does bring to mind, though, is a related comment of Jesus, “oh ye of little faith”. Like when he rebukes the winds when in the boat, or when Peter starts to sink on the water. A lack of faith can cause us to fear or worry, and shrink back from obedience, perhaps in the face of suffering or persecution or danger. Faith truly helps sustain us in obedience or in our task. Fear is one of the reasons people sin. If only we could all have the solid confidence of the addressees in Hebrews:
"out of Hebrews 10:

But recall those earlier days when, after you had been enlightened, you endured a hard struggle with sufferings,…For you had compassion for those who were in prison, and you cheerfully accepted the plundering of your possessions, knowing that you yourselves possessed something better and more lasting. Do not, therefore, abandon that confidence of yours…For you need endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised…But we are not among those who shrink back and so are lost, but among those who have faith and so are saved.

I would like to add that from a Catholic perspective, it is possible to mortally sin (disobey) and still retain faith. So faith cannot perfectly equate with obedience.

Love is connected to obedience, but belief is not. Note that no passage in Scripture connects loving Christ to Salvation, but instead it connects believing in Christ to Salvation.

For me, there is some connection between obedience and salvation. We have this Hebrews passage:

Hebrews 4:9 and having been made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him,

Also, there is some connection between obedience and faith, since Paul describes in Romans what he is trying to do as bringing about the “obedience of faith” among the Gentiles.

 

[Jimmy_B]

… it is possible to mortally sin (disobey) and still retain faith. So faith cannot perfectly equate with obedience.

Hello Pug,

I seldom disagree with Catholics and this might be the first time I have ever disagreed with you…I think…

I don’t know if we disagree, or If I’m just having a problem understanding what you meant by this comment.

I need to know what you meant by, “it is possible to mortally sin (disobey) and still retain faith“?

We probably agree but I need more information.

I would agree with you, if you had used the word “hope” instead of “faith”.

By “faith”, do you mean that a person remains a “Catholic” after committing a mortal sin? If that is the case, then we agree.

I think we would also agree that Catholics who commit a mortal sin are still “Catholic” but if there is no repentance or forgiveness, they are not to receive Holy Eucharist (Holy Communion).

Catholics need to go to Confession after committing a mortal sin.

I am sure you know that any mortal sin is “mortal” and is so called because we “die”…we “die in Christ”, in other words, when we commit a mortal sin (which is not forgiven) we, at that moment, separate ourselves from God…right?

If one dies with an un-forgiven mortal sin on their soul, there is a good change that they will not go to heaven…right?

A person who has “faith” will ask for forgiveness if they have committed a mortal sin… so they are obeying Christ’s instruction, by asking for forgiveness and thereby “retaining their faith”.

I appreciate your comments and I agree with nearly everything you write, however I don’t believe that mortal sin or disobedience towards God equals “faith” and I know you don’t either, many of my comments here are also intended for a broader audience, namely non-Catholics.

I’m giving you an excuse to provide another excellent exegesis, in defense of Catholicism, because I want to know what you meant and because I like reading your posts.

Thanks - Peace

 

[planten]

Jimmy, There you go again, creating a discussion that goes straight to the depths of our faith!. Thanks again.
For me to believe in Jesus is to live like Him. Belief is nothing without action. Therefore, I must give up my right to myself and must live as He lived. He gives me the freedom to dare to go into the unknown of our faith and act in a way that unites me to those who I meet on a daily basis. He gives me the freedom to love like I had never experienced before. To believe in Him is to have no limits to whom I express that love.
I am still in the process of learning how not to limit myself.

** At least there is some one who is telling the true meaning of things. I have highlighted and color the sentence above. The next sentence is also true. i.e. belief is nothing without action (or practice). Otherwise it would mean lip service.

I hope Ron E must not be going near the pork (or pig) or gambling. Of course he can drink a little because Jesus drank (very little). Jesus also loved and cared for every one, even taught good lessons. Let us have more from Ron about what to do in life and what not to do. Thanks.**

 

[planten]

Correct.

Yes, you are right.

Right again.

Here is the crux of the argument right here. We both agree that Jesus gave certain commandments to His followers, but where we disagree is whether following constitutes part of belief or not.

I believe the quote you are going for is John 14:15, which reads: “If you love Me, keep* My commandments” (NKJV). Love is connected to obedience, but belief is not. Note that no passage in Scripture connects loving Christ to Salvation, but instead it connects believing in Christ to Salvation.

So far, It does not appear you have connected obedience to belief.

Also, in response to your ‘apeitheo’ comment, I point you towards the following article:

Obedience is Necessary to Receive Eternal Life

**Belief without good deeds will be a joke. Any one can say that he believes in Jesus. But if he/she does not do according to the teachings of Jesus then it is as good as not believing in Jesus.

A belief has to be followed by some actions. Belief is, no doubt, the first step. There is nothing without belief. But belief has to be substantiated by acting on the teachings. Otherwise any one would say that he/she believes. But when omes the time to stand up and prove his/her belief, he.she may falter and run away.

I know there is a saying of paul “You will be saved by faith alone”. I do not know what that means. At another place he says that faith is not enough for salvation. Good deeds are required.

**.

 

[Pug]

I don’t know if we disagree, or If I’m just having a problem understanding what you meant by this comment.

I need to know what you meant by, “it is possible to mortally sin (disobey) and still retain faith“?

Thanks for asking gently. I tend to creep about, not wanting to open some of the replies I get.

Mostly, I was thinking of a quote from the sixth session of the Council of Trent. I left off the quote, though, because this is the non-Cath board. Since you are a Catholic asking, I’ll quote the explanatory part of Trent (longer) and not the list of anathema sit part (shorter). It’s chapter XV. It is saying that some mortal sins destroy/lose faith, but not all.

Against the subtle wits of some also, who by pleasing speeches and good words seduce the hearts of the innocent, it must be maintained that the grace of justification once received is lost not only by infidelity, whereby also faith itself is lost, but also by every other mortal sin, though in this case faith is not lost; thus defending the teaching of the divine law which excludes from the kingdom of God not only unbelievers, but also the faithful [who are] fornicators, adulterers, effeminate, liers with mankind, thieves, covetous, drunkards, railers, extortioners, and all others who commit deadly sins, from which with the help of divine grace they can refrain, and on account of which they are cut off from the grace of Christ.

Italics and the brackets are in my copy (published by Tan). Italics in that book mean a scripture reference, usually.

I tend to understand it as a mortal sin destroys charity in our hearts, but it may leave faith still in our hearts, though that faith that remains would not be called a “saving faith” by some of those groups who use that term, I think. To talk in a specific way, when a person receives sanctifying grace, they are infused with faith, hope, and charity, the three theological virtues. I think Trent means that they are not always all three lost in mortal sin. I don’t know, though, if Trent means just the habit remains (virtues can be seen as habits or dispositions).

Ah! After much rummaging, I found a CCC quote.

1815 The gift of faith remains in one who has not sinned against it. But “faith apart from works is dead”: when it is deprived of hope and love, faith does not fully unite the believer to Christ and does not make him a living member of his Body.

It is on account of my trying to stay true to quotes like these that I say that a person who sinned mortally (like serious disobedience to the third commandment, and *not *heresy or apostasy or schism) may still have faith, even though they are not in a state of grace, currently. You are right that on this board we are talking to a broader audience, and this may change how we explain things. What I have put above is more to a Catholic audience. I’m not sure why I commented about disobedience/mortal sin/faith as I did. At the time, I felt it right to, but maybe I created confusion on your very nice thread (I’ve been lurking on it the whole time, just not said anything).

I read each of your individual guesses in your post. I don’t think we are disagreeing on any essential matters. No defending the faith in this post, though, only trying to understand each other and learn.

Edit: see canon 28 of the sixth session for the anathema sit thing.

 

[Jimmy_B]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

The last three posts here were all great. In line with this thread and the most recent comments here, I would like to add that Thomas à Kempis (c. 1380-1471), wrote a book titled - Imitation of Christ (also here and here ), which explains how we can “imitate” Christ.

I think Thomas Kempis’ book goes a long way in explaining what it means to “believe in Jesus”. I highly recommend reading this book, I own several versions of this book including the “red cover” and the CD version. This book will be helpful to Catholics and non-Catholics who want to better understand what it really means to “believe in Jesus”.

Many Catholic Saints, including St. Bonaventure, St. Ignatius, St. Benedict, St. Francis de Sales, St. Francis of Assisi, St. John of the Cross , St. Teresa of Avila, St. Thomas Aquinas and many more (here), also wrote about what it means to “believe in Jesus”.

Many Catholic Saints and Doctors of the Church (here) spent a lifetime reflecting, writing about and living; what it means to “believe in Jesus”.

Additionally, there are many places in the Bible where the words “love” and “faith” have the same meaning as “believe”, in the sense of “believing in Jesus”.

When I have more time, I will put some Bible verses together to show all of you what I mean.

For now I leave you with this video, I can only Imagine - the Catholic version

Peace .

 

[Jimmy_B]

Thanks for asking gently. I tend to creep about, not wanting to open some of the replies I get.

Mostly, I was thinking of a quote from the sixth session of the Council of Trent. I left off the quote, though, because this is the non-Cath board. Since you are a Catholic asking, I’ll quote the explanatory part of Trent (longer) and not the list of anathema sit part (shorter). It’s chapter XV. It is saying that some mortal sins destroy/lose faith, but not all.

Italics and the brackets are in my copy (published by Tan). Italics in that book mean a scripture reference, usually.

I tend to understand it as a mortal sin destroys charity in our hearts, but it may leave faith still in our hearts, though that faith that remains would not be called a “saving faith” by some of those groups who use that term, I think. To talk in a specific way, when a person receives sanctifying grace, they are infused with faith, hope, and charity, the three theological virtues. I think Trent means that they are not always all three lost in mortal sin. I don’t know, though, if Trent means just the habit remains (virtues can be seen as habits or dispositions).

Ah! After much rummaging, I found a CCC quote.

It is on account of my trying to stay true to quotes like these that I say that a person who sinned mortally (like serious disobedience to the third commandment, and *not *heresy or apostasy or schism) may still have faith, even though they are not in a state of grace, currently. You are right that on this board we are talking to a broader audience, and this may change how we explain things. What I have put above is more to a Catholic audience. I’m not sure why I commented about disobedience/mortal sin/faith as I did. At the time, I felt it right to, but maybe I created confusion on your very nice thread (I’ve been lurking on it the whole time, just not said anything).

I read each of your individual guesses in your post. I don’t think we are disagreeing on any essential matters. No defending the faith in this post, though, only trying to understand each other and learn.

Edit: see canon 28 of the sixth session for the anathema sit thing.

Thank you Pug,

When in doubt go to the Bible the Catechism of the Catholic Church or the Doctors of the Church. (there are many Catholic writings here).

The “Apostles of Common Sense” won’t hurt either; G. K. Chesterton, Cardinal John Henry Newman and Bishop J. Fulton Sheen among others.

Peace

 

[Cathdefender]

http://www.salvemariaregina.info/Images/SacredHeart.jpg

The last three posts here were all great. In line with this thread and the most recent comments here, I would like to add that Thomas à Kempis (c. 1380-1471), wrote a book titled - Imitation of Christ (also here and here ), which explains how we can “imitate” Christ.

I think Thomas Kempis’ book goes a long way in explaining what it means to “believe in Jesus”. I highly recommend reading this book, I own several versions of this book including the “red cover” and the CD version. This book will be helpful to Catholics and non-Catholics who want to better understand what it really means to “believe in Jesus”.

Many Catholic Saints, including St. Bonaventure, St. Ignatius, St. Benedict, St. Francis de Sales, St. Francis of Assisi, St. John of the Cross , St. Teresa of Avila, St. Thomas Aquinas and many more (here), also wrote about what it means to “believe in Jesus”.

Many Catholic Saints and Doctors of the Church (here) spent a lifetime reflecting, writing about and living; what it means to “believe in Jesus”.

Additionally, there are many places in the Bible where the words “love” and “faith” have the same meaning as “believe”, in the sense of “believing in Jesus”.

When I have more time, I will put some Bible verses together to show all of you what I mean.

For now I leave you with this video, I can only Imagine - the Catholic version

Peace .

My favorite read is “Imitation of Christ”, it comforts me in my hours of darkness.