What does a lay liturgist do?

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What does a lay liturgist do?

I realize that the priestly celebrant needs to choose the different options for the Masses they celebrate, create/review the Mass intentions and specify or at least agree to the music. They must also make sure everything is “set-up” for the Mass. In large parishes this could mean directing a group of individuals or in smaller parishes maybe the priest does it all himself.

But what on the other hand does a lay liturgist actually do?
 
I recall reading someplace that lay liturgists provide priests the spiritual benefits of martyrdom in times of peace. 😃
 
After being on the forums for a little time and reading many threads, I see absolutely NOTHING good that can come out of this one.

I am BEGGING the moderators to lock it - it’s not so much what has been said already but what more than likely WILL be said.

There are AD NAUSEAUM threads on this topic; anyone can search around and read. The topic of liturgists has been hashed out so many times already - and usually in a condescending manner towards those who hold these positions and with extreme negativity and vitriol.
 
What does a lay liturgist do?

I realize that the priestly celebrant needs to choose the different options for the Masses they celebrate, create/review the Mass intentions and specify or at least agree to the music. They must also make sure everything is “set-up” for the Mass. In large parishes this could mean directing a group of individuals or in smaller parishes maybe the priest does it all himself.

But what on the other hand does a lay liturgist actually do?
They make felt banners.
 
“The Director of Parish Liturgies may coordinate liturgical teams and committees, supervise the parish’s music program, schedule all liturgical ministers, oversee planning and preparation of worship space environment, conduct a liturgical education program, and coordinate the evaluation of overall parish liturgical needs.”

Yikes! :bigyikes: Sounds like the responsibility of the pastor or his parochial vicar and some lay assistants?

I really had no idea that some (arch)dioceses/parishes concentrate that much power and responsibility in the hands of lay “Directors of Parish Liturgies.”

I now see that this position as having the grave probability of really screwing things up! No responsibility to the faithful whatsoever and if they are firmly ensconced, they could really be difficult to remove by the pastor.

Sadly it sounds like nothing more than a wasted paycheck – a layer of unneeded fat that does nothing but slow-down and complicate things – and frustrate others…

I thank God and His Son that my parish does not have a lay “liturgist.”

I could see where some chapels or pastorless churches might need an administrator or coordinator, but a “liturgist?” I think not.:hypno:
 
After being on the forums for a little time and reading many threads, I see absolutely NOTHING good that can come out of this one.

I am BEGGING the moderators to lock it - it’s not so much what has been said already but what more than likely WILL be said.

There are AD NAUSEAUM threads on this topic; anyone can search around and read. The topic of liturgists has been hashed out so many times already - and usually in a condescending manner towards those who hold these positions and with extreme negativity and vitriol.
Why would that be do you think?
 
Actuallly, in my case, the burden fell on my shoulders 99.9% of the time. For the Red and White Masses, I had to choose the readings, the hymns, compose the General Intercessions (bilingual), make sure that the lectionaries were in order (English/Spanish), order (and sometimes arrange) the flowers (with the help of the wedding coordinator), go over the readings with the lectors and type and arrange the worship aids (booklets).

For the Chrism Mass, along with chossing the hymns and the other arrangments, I had to buy the oils, order the essence of Chrism, type of the labels for the bottles (in Latin), prepare the parish/priest lists and organize a team to fill the bottles and box them up for distribution. Along with this, I also had to select who was going to bring up each urn at the appropriate time and select a suitable hymn to accompany each oil.

For all of the other Masses, I did hymn selections, art and environment and handled the printing (and often the creative efforts) of the worship aids. For our first diaconate ordination Mass, I wound up getting stuck with planning the reception after the Mass because someone at the Chancery had dropped the ball two days before. :eek:

On top of everything else, I stayed in the sacrity during each Mass to make sure that things were running okay. This really helped because there were some avoidable snafus that would sometimes pop up and I was prepared to quickly douse a few fires.

It’s very stressful especially when your bishop is more along the lines of “whatever you’ve prepared is fine”. I have always believed that we need a system of checks and balanes. Often, I have had to just refer to the documents. That’s fine with me because that’s what I’m supposed to be doing. But, it does help to have another pair of eyes. I was blessed to have a rector who was more than willing to help out and take a hands-on approach to things. He had no qualms about decorating or getting his hands dirty. The deacon helped some, but, a good chunk of the art and environment fell to the rector, the wedding coordinator and to me.

It wasn’t that we didn’t want to get people involved. Certainly a couple of hands here and there were most helpful. But, grunt work is grunt work. What most people don’t realize that the actual thinking, planning, writing and mapping out takes a lot of energy. The faithful see the beautiful flowers and hear the sacred music, but, they don’t know what goes on behind the scenes. There’s some real hard work that goes into making sure that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is celebrated in the manner prescribed by the Church.

During the Easter Vigil, I also had to contend with the RCIA group and make sure that everything was running smoothly for them.

You can certainly suffer burnout from doing this over long periods of time.

I realize that there are some lay liturgists who do get a bum rap because, sadly, they do some things that go very much against what the Church requires and they get too creative. However, there are some of us out there who do our best to ensure that our parishes and dioceses are doing what the Church asks us to do. There are those of us who work to defend the integrity of the Mass, from the perpations to the recessional hymn. We don’t do it for the thanks. We do it because we love Christ and his Church.
 
There are AD NAUSEAUM threads on this topic; anyone can search around and read. The topic of liturgists has been hashed out so many times already - and usually in a condescending manner towards those who hold these positions and with extreme negativity and vitriol.
Which is entirely undeserved! There is a vast and vicious traditionalist conspiracy fabricating baseless accusations throughout the Church of liturgical abuse everywhere. The only motive is to destroy the good orthodox reputation of lay liturgists.
 
I think the main issue that people have with liturgists is that many of them get waaaaaaaaaaaaay too big for their britches. (Benedictgirl aside)

There is a place for a lay coordinator, or lay administrator if the parish had no priest, but with a parish with a priest, I don’t understand the need for a liturgist. To me, it smells a lot like a protestant worship crushed into one person.
HOWEVER, a liturgist for a Cathedral makes sense, cause things get big and crazy there.
 
I think the main issue that people have with liturgists is that many of them get waaaaaaaaaaaaay too big for their britches. (Benedictgirl aside)

There is a place for a lay coordinator, or lay administrator if the parish had no priest, but with a parish with a priest, I don’t understand the need for a liturgist. To me, it smells a lot like a protestant worship crushed into one person.
HOWEVER, a liturgist for a Cathedral makes sense, cause things get big and crazy there.
Thank you, PatienceAndLove. :hug1:

Actually, things do get crazy at the Cathedral, because, not only do you have a plethora of special liturgies (after all, it is the Bishop’s church), you have weddings and 15th birthday celebrations galore.

Often, the liturgist winds up acting as the “heavy” in case either the wedding party of the parents of the 15th birthday honoree (Quincenera) want to do something strange. The liturgist also needs to help with making sure that these speical events don’t get out of hand (wedding party and Quiinceanera folks getting nosy or a little crazy before the Mass). It is a chore.

I have had to gently tell exuberent teens to gently pipe down the noise as the 15 young ladies and their escorts are waiting for the 15th birthday Mass to begin. Wedding parties can be just as loud.

Then, there are the confirmations. Smaller parishes “cluster” at the Cathedral so you’ve got a full house and you wind up helping the diocesan DRE arrange everyone. On top of that, you have the Knights of Columbus in their 4th Degree plumes who insist on being seated in the front row for every special Mass. :eek: Unfortunately, some of them will carry an attitude. Knights, don’t aim your swords at me. I’m the daughter of one your 4th degree brethren. My dad heped me devise a strategy to keep all parties happy. It’s been a little rough to implement, but, we’re getting there.

So, there is a need. But, at the same time, for our part, we must realize that we are charged with obeying the liturgical norms and rubrics of the Church, not making stuff as we go along simply because we’ve been bitten by the creative bug. And, granted, none of us is perfect. I’ve made some zingers. Luckily, my rector was very supportive and my bishop never noticed, even when I pointed it out to him. We do the best that we can.
 
I think the main issue that people have with liturgists is that many of them get waaaaaaaaaaaaay too big for their britches. (Benedictgirl aside)

There is a place for a lay coordinator, or lay administrator if the parish had no priest, but with a parish with a priest, I don’t understand the need for a liturgist. To me, it smells a lot like a protestant worship crushed into one person.
HOWEVER, a liturgist for a Cathedral makes sense, cause things get big and crazy there.
I agree with your comments for the most part. It blows me away that people without a solid formation hold the title “liturgist” and have that much authority…

Most cathedrals and shrines have priests who are liturgists…

Now that I am getting a better picture of what a lay liturgist is, I’m beginning to realize that a handful of “coordinators” at my parish (who I ignore) have LONG maneuvered to become the parish liturgists.

The HORROR…
 
Actuallly, in my case, the burden fell on my shoulders 99.9% of the time. For the Red and White Masses, I had to choose the readings, the hymns, compose the General Intercessions (bilingual), make sure that the lectionaries were in order (English/Spanish), order (and sometimes arrange) the flowers (with the help of the wedding coordinator), go over the readings with the lectors and type and arrange the worship aids (booklets).

For the Chrism Mass, along with chossing the hymns and the other arrangments, I had to buy the oils, order the essence of Chrism, type of the labels for the bottles (in Latin), prepare the parish/priest lists and organize a team to fill the bottles and box them up for distribution. Along with this, I also had to select who was going to bring up each urn at the appropriate time and select a suitable hymn to accompany each oil.

For all of the other Masses, I did hymn selections, art and environment and handled the printing (and often the creative efforts) of the worship aids. For our first diaconate ordination Mass, I wound up getting stuck with planning the reception after the Mass because someone at the Chancery had dropped the ball two days before. :eek:

On top of everything else, I stayed in the sacrity during each Mass to make sure that things were running okay. This really helped because there were some avoidable snafus that would sometimes pop up and I was prepared to quickly douse a few fires.

It’s very stressful especially when your bishop is more along the lines of “whatever you’ve prepared is fine”. I have always believed that we need a system of checks and balanes. Often, I have had to just refer to the documents. That’s fine with me because that’s what I’m supposed to be doing. But, it does help to have another pair of eyes. I was blessed to have a rector who was more than willing to help out and take a hands-on approach to things. He had no qualms about decorating or getting his hands dirty. The deacon helped some, but, a good chunk of the art and environment fell to the rector, the wedding coordinator and to me.

It wasn’t that we didn’t want to get people involved. Certainly a couple of hands here and there were most helpful. But, grunt work is grunt work. What most people don’t realize that the actual thinking, planning, writing and mapping out takes a lot of energy. The faithful see the beautiful flowers and hear the sacred music, but, they don’t know what goes on behind the scenes. There’s some real hard work that goes into making sure that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is celebrated in the manner prescribed by the Church.

During the Easter Vigil, I also had to contend with the RCIA group and make sure that everything was running smoothly for them.

You can certainly suffer burnout from doing this over long periods of time.

I realize that there are some lay liturgists who do get a bum rap because, sadly, they do some things that go very much against what the Church requires and they get too creative. However, there are some of us out there who do our best to ensure that our parishes and dioceses are doing what the Church asks us to do. There are those of us who work to defend the integrity of the Mass, from the perpations to the recessional hymn. We don’t do it for the thanks. We do it because we love Christ and his Church.
Most of those tasks you mentioned fall to “coordinators”, “sacristans” and other assistants per the self-described liturgist on the other thread that I can no longer locate. They are also executed by laity in my parish too, but the pastor does ultimately approve everything. None of them carry the title “liturgist.”

Maybe it’s all semantics. Maybe I’m already a lay liturgist! :dancing:
 
What does a lay liturgist do?

I realize that the priestly celebrant needs to choose the different options for the Masses they celebrate, create/review the Mass intentions and specify or at least agree to the music. They must also make sure everything is “set-up” for the Mass. In large parishes this could mean directing a group of individuals or in smaller parishes maybe the priest does it all himself.

But what on the other hand does a lay liturgist actually do?
They help plan the masses with the priest. It lightens his workload. They decide together what is appropriate and what is even physically possible to do at different masses. The Liturgist also does or delegates the scheduling of lectors, Eucharistic Ministers, Ushers, Money Counters, song leaders, musicians, etc…
 
Most of those tasks you mentioned fall to “coordinators”, “sacristans” and other assistants per the self-described liturgist on the other thread that I can no longer locate. They are also executed by laity in my parish too, but the pastor does ultimately approve everything. None of them carry the title “liturgist.”

Maybe it’s all semantics. Maybe I’m already a lay liturgist! :dancing:
That often depends on the size of the parish. The larger the parish the more likely it is to have a actual paid position in the parish. Many smaller ones are more dependent on volunteers.
 
Well, it’s something of a circular issue but it’s not uncommon for a lay liturgist to have more education in liturgy than a pastor. (It’s not uncommon for seminaries to have a lay liturgy professor. Often it’s someone who attended seminary but left for whatever reason.) The position of liturgist often attracts people who like the behind the scenes aspects of liturgies (which is often not the case for the pastor and any parochial vicar he might be so fortunate as to have). Pastors are often more than happy to hand off the responsibility and as a result the knowledge of the liturgist grows while the pastor’s knowledge fades over time.

Now granted, not every lay liturgist has a masters degree in theology but many do have a fair amount of training. And there are plenty of parishes where the priest *is *“the liturgist” where some pretty ‘creative’ stuff is happening during liturgies.

It is true that a liturgist can be the instigator behind some strange liturgical goings-on. But it has been my experience that a liturgist often is the lone voice for compliance with the GIRM because the pastor, the faith formation leaders, the RCIA team, the wedding coordinators, the infant baptism coordinators, etc, all have some crafty innovative ideas on how the Mass or other liturgy could be so much more meaningful if the rules were bent just a bit…
 
Well, it’s something of a circular issue but it’s not uncommon for a lay liturgist to have more education in liturgy than a pastor. (It’s not uncommon for seminaries to have a lay liturgy professor. Often it’s someone who attended seminary but left for whatever reason.) The position of liturgist often attracts people who like the behind the scenes aspects of liturgies (which is often not the case for the pastor and any parochial vicar he might be so fortunate as to have). Pastors are often more than happy to hand off the responsibility and as a result the knowledge of the liturgist grows while the pastor’s knowledge fades over time.

Now granted, not every lay liturgist has a masters degree in theology but many do have a fair amount of training. And there are plenty of parishes where the priest *is *“the liturgist” where some pretty ‘creative’ stuff is happening during liturgies.

It is true that a liturgist can be the instigator behind some strange liturgical goings-on. But it has been my experience that a liturgist often is the lone voice for compliance with the GIRM because the pastor, the faith formation leaders, the RCIA team, the wedding coordinators, the infant baptism coordinators, etc, all have some crafty innovative ideas on how the Mass or other liturgy could be so much more meaningful if the rules were bent just a bit…
Very true. There are some gifted liturgists (such as benedictgal 😃 )
But I think the real problem is that we need to make sure that our beloved priests are keeping up with their education regarding the Mass and the Faith.
I think that leaving it to the lay people takes some weight off the shoulders of the priests and the education of the Faith is falling to the lay people rather than to the priests. As you pointed out, the liturgist will have more knowledge than the priest. I don’t think that this is beneficial to the priest, at all.
I hope that this all makes sense.
 
That often depends on the size of the parish. The larger the parish the more likely it is to have a actual paid position in the parish. Many smaller ones are more dependent on volunteers.
Paid or not it wouldn’t hold the title “liturgist” around here.
 
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