what does an atheist church look like?

[abucs]

You’ll probably find the current crop of hardcore atheists think the same thing. Oddly enough the Abrahamic religions, which are the ones they dislike most are growing. You don’t hear them saying much about Hinduism or Buddhism - and they usually target Christianity. If the following link is accurate, then Christianity and Islam claim over half the world’s population between them, wiht the Jews adding about around 15 million.

bible.ca/global-religion-statistics-world-christian-encyclopedia.htm

Funny how God told a wandering citizen from Ur, old Abraham, to go out of his tent and count the number of stars in the sky and that He would give him that many descendants. In the spiritual sense, that’s what He’s doing, and He shows no sign of slowing down. And that was despite the long delay in giving him a natural heir. It wasn’t really the natural heir He was talking about, when it was all said and done.

Frankly unless God was behind it, the whole thing would have collapsed long ago, when we consider how much opposition both the Jews and the Church have faced over the centuries.

Thanks for the link Bob.

It is really amazing to cast the mind back to that natural Planetarium of Ur. It must have been an exceedingly clear night that night. )

Looking at the link it seems that world harmony is best served by a handful of religions getting together to sort things out politically. A bit difficult i guess to nomininate the leaders for some religions.

The Philippines in the last year put a petition together at the U.N. to support a movement for inter-religious dialogue among the nations.

globalnation.inquirer.net/news/breakingnews/view/20080419-131433/Pope-supports-RPs-interfaith-initiative-before-UN

Hopefully this will bear fruit at the UN in the next few decades.

If it had had a bit if stength it might have made the U.S. think twice about getting itself in a mess over Iraq.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Thanks for the link Bob.

It is really amazing to cast the mind back to that natural Planetarium of Ur. It must have been an exceedingly clear night that night. )

Looking at the link it seems that world harmony is best served by a handful of religions getting together to sort things out politically. A bit difficult i guess to nomininate the leaders for some religions.

The Philippines in the last year put a petition together at the U.N. to support a movement for inter-religious dialogue among the nations.

globalnation.inquirer.net/news/breakingnews/view/20080419-131433/Pope-supports-RPs-interfaith-initiative-before-UN

Hopefully this will bear fruit at the UN in the next few decades.

If it had had a bit if stength it might have made the U.S. think twice about getting itself in a mess over Iraq.

There’s also the rather powerful contribution by the Jews to society, despite their small number. Quoting from “The Answer to the Atheists Handbook” by Richard Wurmbrand (who was a Romanian Jew who became a Christian), he had this to say (a bit dated - it was first published in 1975).

"The prophecies about the Jews begin with a promise made to Abraham, the first Jew, some 4,500 years ago. Listen to it: “I will make you a great nation.”

The Christian world bears the name of a Jew, Jesus Christ. The Communist camp was founded upon the name of another Jew, Marx. The universe as a whole bears the name of yet another Jew, Einstein. (My comment - And before him, another Jew, Newton). Over sixty percent of the Nobel Prize winners are Jewish, among them … Boris Pasternak. Jews played a tremendous role in the Communist revolution … Lenin was half Jewish. Jews played a big role in the anti-government fight in the Soviet Union … Jews are active in the economic and political life of the United States and many other countries. … The Jew Teller is called “the father of the nuclear bomb”.

… Wherever they have gone, they have become the wizards of finance…

… A careful computation of the university professors of Western Europe, apart from Great Britan before the First World War showed that about seventy percent were of Jewish origin and persuasion.

… Simone Weil, a Jewess, was one of the most profound theologians of Catholicism.

The Hebrew Language is the only old language which has been revived and is now spoken in Israel. This has not happened with Latin, old Greek, Slavonic, Iris, Welsh or any other old language.

… They are the only people who could not be destroyed through unique sufferings. Egyptian pharaohs, Assyrian kings, Roman emperors, the Crusaders, the Inquisitors, and the Nazis hae used against them expatriation, exile, captivity, confiscation, torture, the massacre of millions - all of which would have broken the heart of any other people - but the Jews remain."

There’s more of the same, but the fact is that for a goup which even today only numbers about 15 million people, they’ve had an astonishing influence.

Co-incidence? Or has God simply been keeping HIs promise to Abraham?

 

[Gertabelle]

You know what they say: you pray for me, and I’ll think for you.

What a relief! I could so totally use an extra brain these days. While I’m offering my thoughts, actions, and intentions as a loving prayer for you today (while teaching 230 wee ones in a public school), you can take on some of my dissertation research thinking for me. Here’s what you can do for me: I need another 25 primary sources on the topic of formative and summative assessment in K-12 education. Methodology should include qualitative, quantitative, and mixed-methods – and all sources MUST be peer-reviewed and within the past five years. If you could then do a meta-analysis of the data, drawing conclusions and making recommendations for future research, that would be great. Meanwhile, I’ll continue working on the data collection and artifact analysis. Again, thanks so much for the offer of help

Hurl all the insults you want at me dear one. I’ll just keep loving you and praying for you.

Arrgh. I think this thread does more harm than good.

I don’t know how many times I’ve been confronted with this notion on the part of religious people that atheists have some sort of “atheist” analogue of everything that theists have. And I think you’re feeding that stereotype with this thread, as well as the stereotype that atheists “worship” science.

A planetarium is not an “atheist church”, at least not in the sense that it’s where atheists as a group go for religious observance. I’m fascinated by lots of things that I’d see in a planetarium, but there’s nothing there that I would worship.

What does an atheist church look like? Depends on the atheist. For some atheists (i.e. the Buddhist kind), it might look like an atheist temple. For this atheist, though, my church looks like this:

Nothing. I have no church. I have no god. It’s not that I’ve made a “god” of science, myself, or anything else. I simply don’t have one.

Thanks for the honest and respectful post. I, too, love to look at the stars; and I also don’t worship anything out there. It sounds like you’re not threatened by religion, just as I’m not threatened by atheism. That’s a good place to be.

Gertie

 

[abucs]

There’s also the rather powerful contribution by the Jews to society, despite their small number. Quoting from “The Answer to the Atheists Handbook” by Richard Wurmbrand (who was a Romanian Jew who became a Christian), he had this to say (a bit dated - it was first published in 1975).

"The prophecies about the Jews begin with a promise made to Abraham, the first Jew, some 4,500 years ago. Listen to it: “I will make you a great nation.”

The Christian world bears the name of a Jew, Jesus Christ. The Communist camp was founded upon the name of another Jew, Marx. The universe as a whole bears the name of yet another Jew, Einstein. (My comment - And before him, another Jew, Newton). Over sixty percent of the Nobel Prize winners are Jewish, among them … Boris Pasternak. Jews played a tremendous role in the Communist revolution … Lenin was half Jewish. Jews played a big role in the anti-government fight in the Soviet Union … Jews are active in the economic and political life of the United States and many other countries. … The Jew Teller is called “the father of the nuclear bomb”.

… Wherever they have gone, they have become the wizards of finance…

… A careful computation of the university professors of Western Europe, apart from Great Britan before the First World War showed that about seventy percent were of Jewish origin and persuasion.

… Simone Weil, a Jewess, was one of the most profound theologians of Catholicism.

The Hebrew Language is the only old language which has been revived and is now spoken in Israel. This has not happened with Latin, old Greek, Slavonic, Iris, Welsh or any other old language.

… They are the only people who could not be destroyed through unique sufferings. Egyptian pharaohs, Assyrian kings, Roman emperors, the Crusaders, the Inquisitors, and the Nazis hae used against them expatriation, exile, captivity, confiscation, torture, the massacre of millions - all of which would have broken the heart of any other people - but the Jews remain."

There’s more of the same, but the fact is that for a goup which even today only numbers about 15 million people, they’ve had an astonishing influence.

Co-incidence? Or has God simply been keeping HIs promise to Abraham?

Yes, the story of the Jews in pretty unique. Just the getting back together as a nation, especially only a few short years after being almost wiped out in WW2 is staggering.

I have heard before about the Jews contribution. Would be greatful if you had any good links, otherwise i’ll take a Google (or Goodsearch) myself.

 

[gearhead]

There’s also the rather powerful contribution by the Jews to society, despite their small number. Quoting from “The Answer to the Atheists Handbook” by Richard Wurmbrand (who was a Romanian Jew who became a Christian), he had this to say (a bit dated - it was first published in 1975).

There’s an “Atheist Handbook”? I guess they forgot to give me a copy when I got my atheist membership card and decoder ring.

"The prophecies about the Jews begin with a promise made to Abraham, the first Jew, some 4,500 years ago. Listen to it: “I will make you a great nation.”

All the examples you list sound to me like a people making themselves a great nation all on their own. Many of the accomplishments you list are certainly impressive, but they all have one thing in common: they were accomplished by people.

I do have to quibble with a few points, though:

The Hebrew Language is the only old language which has been revived and is now spoken in Israel. This has not happened with Latin, old Greek, Slavonic, Iris, Welsh or any other old language.

Modern Hebrew is not ancient Hebrew. And there are many modern languages worldwide that have a similar degree of commonality with their ancient versions.

… They are the only people who could not be destroyed through unique sufferings. Egyptian pharaohs, Assyrian kings, Roman emperors, the Crusaders, the Inquisitors, and the Nazis hae used against them expatriation, exile, captivity, confiscation, torture, the massacre of millions - all of which would have broken the heart of any other people - but the Jews remain."

While I agree that the Holocaust was a horrible event, the Jews are not the only people who have gone through “unique sufferings”. Half of my ancestors survived events like the Irish potato famine and Cromwell’s crackdown on Ireland; the other half of my ancestors survived the Scottish clearances, as well as regular massacres at the hands of neighbouring clans and wars with the English.

I don’t think you’d be able to find a society on Earths whose survival wasn’t improbable in one way or another.

Co-incidence? Or has God simply been keeping HIs promise to Abraham?

I think it’s a combination of coincidence, luck, and the sheer determination of a strong group of people. Human resolve is an amazing thing - I can see how it could be mistaken for the hand of God.

 

[rick43235]

There’s an “Atheist Handbook”? I guess they forgot to give me a copy when I got my atheist membership card and decoder ring.

Same thing almost happened to me, but just as I turned to walk away, I remembered that I had to offer the secret handshake to get the book.

 

[Janet1983]

A planetarium

Well there is an official “First Church of Atheism” and they ordain ministers to actually perform all normal clergy functions (weddings, funerals, etc.)

But anyways… Here would be a good picture for a church for the atheistic religion (the funny thing is that the building was once used for Christian purposes… they have crosses on the tower till today)… Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. (Romans 1:22)

Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them. (Jeremiah 10:14) Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? (1 Corinthians 1:20)

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Yes, the story of the Jews in pretty unique. Just the getting back together as a nation, especially only a few short years after being almost wiped out in WW2 is staggering.

I have heard before about the Jews contribution. Would be greatful if you had any good links, otherwise i’ll take a Google (or Goodsearch) myself.

I went googling and managed to find this site. It seems to offer a pretty good encapsulated summary of Jewish contributions to society.

jinfo.org/

 

[abucs]

I went googling and managed to find this site. It seems to offer a pretty good encapsulated summary of Jewish contributions to society.

jinfo.org/

Thanks.

 

[DerekD]

I already said that they come from many sources – empathy (natural, inborn feelings of connection with other members of one’s species), reason (deciding which actions would be best for one’s survival), social traditions (societies tested out actions in the past and passed down to us the ones that worked the best), etc.

EDIT: And, of course, I’m not claiming to know 100% for sure that these are the only sources of values. It’s quite possible that our values are informed by other factors that we’re not aware of yet.

So you say. Other religions claim that other gods were responsible for the universe. I don’t see any reason to think that any intelligent being was responsible for the universe.

If you’d like an answer to any of your other questions, please pick one and ask it clearly, rather than submitting a wall of text.

What I am saying is that you have now been told that Jesus Christ came to bore the sin of the world for all those who believe in the only begotten Son of the Father. For all have sinned and offended the creator of the heavens and the earth and all that it contains, but God in His mercy died on the cross to be a propitiation for the sins against God. Whosoever will call upon the name of the Son with a true heart of repentance will be saved. You have been told the truth; so what will you do with it? You will not be able to face God and say I did not know because you do know.

As far as other religious claims; there is no book that has been tested more than the Bible and withstood the test of time. Every prophecy written in it has either come to pass to the letter or will be fulfilled in the near future. Every one that has tried to disprove from science or archeology has done no less then to verify the veracity of the Bible.

You seem to believe that society is getting better? that is almost laughable if it were not so sad; but the Bible tells us the whole of creation moans for redemption and restoration of all things; in other words, things are getting worse and will continue to; not better. The Bible also teaches us the wisdom of men is foolishness to God.

I don’t know if you believe in the survival of the fittest, but if that were true, then everyone would go and kill each other off because isn’t that how we would have gotten here in the first place? So all the handicapped, mentally impaired and weak should be easy targets. In many places around the world, this is what happens to some degree or another.

I hope God blesses you and gives you eyes to see His beauty and perfection.

 

[Lutheranteach]

Then, there is Thomas Jefferson:

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.
-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

 

[jmcrae]

Then, there is Thomas Jefferson:

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.
-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

Did you know that in medieval times, the Feudal lords never exacted more than a 10% tax from their serfs? We remember them as being “brutal” but who today pays as little as 10%, unless they are receiving only the minimum wage?

 

[yankee_doodle]

Well there is an official “First Church of Atheism” and they ordain ministers to actually perform all normal clergy functions (weddings, funerals, etc.)

But anyways… Here would be a good picture for a church for the atheistic religion (the funny thing is that the building was once used for Christian purposes… they have crosses on the tower till today)… Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. (Romans 1:22)

Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them. (Jeremiah 10:14) Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? (1 Corinthians 1:20)

cool … thanks (I’m now an ordained atheist minister). I’m cracking up (I think I need a beer). I completed seminary and learned all atheist beliefs in under ten seconds

 

[benidict]

A planetarium

i would assume, empty empty empty…but they would celebrate a holiday. ones birthday. because even if nobody else is happy your here…you are! :tada:lol!

 

[yankee_doodle]

i would assume, empty empty empty…but they would celebrate a holiday. ones birthday. because even if nobody else is happy your here…you are! :tada:lol!

probably pretty full in New York, Boston, Portland, Seattle, Austin, Copenhagen, Paris, etc. (you know, all the smart people cities )

 

[dzheremi]

probably pretty full in New York, Boston, Portland, Seattle, Austin, Copenhagen, Paris, etc. (you know, all the smart people cities )

Which part of Boston is the “smart people” part, I wonder? The Irish Catholic part, the Polish Catholic part, or the Italian Catholic part?

According to this directory, there are over 500 churches in Austin, Texas. Searching for churches in or around Austin on Google Maps yields over 12,000 results.

I seem to remember there being quite a few churches in Portland, Oregon last time I was there, too. The same directory I linked above lists well over 200. Not bad for a town full of liberal arts types, huh?

 

[yankee_doodle]

Which part of Boston is the “smart people” part, I wonder? The Irish Catholic part, the Polish Catholic part, or the Italian Catholic part?

where the rich people live (like every other city), which is generally not ethnic neighborhoods.

According to this directory, there are over 500 churches in Austin, Texas. Searching for churches in or around Austin on Google Maps yields over 12,000 results.

did I say cities with large numbers of atheists have no theists? BTW I live just outside of Austin right now …

I seem to remember there being quite a few churches in Portland, Oregon last time I was there, too. The same directory I linked above lists well over 200. Not bad for a town full of liberal arts types, huh?

again, just because an atheist church would fill up pretty quickly … doesn’t mean there’s no theists.

Red herring

Question have you ever been to any of these cities (I take it you haven’t)?

 

[dzheremi]

where the rich people live (like every other city), which is generally not ethnic neighborhoods.

Wow. Take THAT, foreigners and poor people. Some “yankee doodle” on the internet thinks you’re all idiots. What a progressive and rational viewpoint you have. “Ethnic” and “smart” just don’t go together, do they?

did I say cities with large numbers of atheists have no theists? BTW I live just outside of Austin right now …

Did I say you said that? I don’t recall saying that.

I do, of course, think that this complicates your view that “smart” cities are inherently less religiously faithful than other places.

again, just because an atheist church would fill up pretty quickly … doesn’t mean there’s no theists.

Again, I didn’t say you implied that. My reason for bringing up the number of churches in the places that you yourself have qualified as “smart” is to show that, no matter what you say, in practice there is no contradiction between embracing religious belief and being intelligent, creative, or anything else you’d like to present as antithetical to religion.

Question have you ever been to any of these cities (I take it you haven’t)?

I have not only been to all three that I mentioned, I spent the last two years of my life within driving distance of Portland, and hence got to know that city quite well. I have not been to the others that you mentioned.

Do you get some sort of joy out of assuming so much about other people?

 

[exan]

Getting atheists in a church is like herding cats. Useless.

 

[yankee_doodle]

Wow. Take THAT, foreigners and poor people. Some “yankee doodle” on the internet thinks you’re all idiots. What a progressive and rational viewpoint you have. “Ethnic” and “smart” just don’t go together, do they?

not necessarily, but “ethnic neighborhoods” are usually blue collar places (they’re typically not filled with lawyers, engineers, college professors, financial gurus, and doctors). Plenty of ethnic Americans, however, are lawyers, engineers, professors, etc. (hopefully you see the distinction here).

Did I say you said that? I don’t recall saying that.

I do, of course, think that this complicates your view that “smart” cities are inherently less religiously faithful than other places.

Again, I didn’t say you implied that. My reason for bringing up the number of churches in the places that you yourself have qualified as “smart” is to show that, no matter what you say, in practice there is no contradiction between embracing religious belief and being intelligent, creative, or anything else you’d like to present as antithetical to religion.

I have not only been to all three that I mentioned, I spent the last two years of my life within driving distance of Portland, and hence got to know that city quite well. I have not been to the others that you mentioned.

Do you get some sort of joy out of assuming so much about other people?

Gallup lists the least religious as follows:

Vermont, Maine, Mass., Alaska, Washington, Oregon, Rhode Island, Nevada, and Connecticut.

Obviously Seattle is the least religious city in Washington, and Portland the least religious in Oregon (both very rural states, where people in the outlying areas are naturally more conservative).

Alaska and Nevada were both surprises for me (I assume Vegas & Alaska I can’t even begin to speculate how they wound up on the list).

As for New York & Boston, anyone whose ever visited those cities (it’s the region of the US I was raised in) knows they’re among the least religious cities in the US. Austin is also very progressive.

Here’s a link to the Gallup poll:

gallup.com/poll/114022/state-states-importance-religion.aspx

You can do a little research (I also think DC is up there in the least religious category).