What does "Church" mean to you?

[elvisman]

Your response is quite colorful.

Thanks.

Hey - nice cop-out by the way. Not much of a response - but a nice cop-out nontheless . . .

 

[SteveVH]

Originally Posted by Curious Seed
Good

Christ can live without His Church.

Christ is the means of salvation.

His Church - the Body of Christ - Assembly of the Way - the Catholic Church - the Protestant Church - the Orthodox Church: all who profess Christ as their Lord and Savior.

No.

Yes.

Now, you are on it. Christ did found a Church. You may hold that it was the Catholic Church that He founded upon Peter. I agree that He founded His Church on what Peter answered, so deciding to call it Catholic or Protestant is fine. Fine, because His Church is manifested in all of those denominations.

Sorry

 

[Carlan]

Thanks Steve, This has been an excellent discussion!
Peace, Carlan

 

[Publisher]

I’m glad you’re at peace with your beliefs even though I disagree (like I said before).
I DO want to say one last thing to you on this topic. Our experience with God IS individual - to a point. BUT - it is only through the Church that we experience the family of God.

**The message of the Gospel is not **one of Lone Ranger Christians, but the Mystical Body of Christ that can *only *be experienced together. The Scriptures DO speak of our individual salvation but they express us as the people of God much more.

Friends are very much into “community”…we are on this Journey together…your characature of “Lone Ranger Christians” simply does not apply to Friends…we are joined to the Mytical Body of Christ through the Baptism of the Spirit…we do understand it is through the Church that we experience the family of God…perhpas that’s why we do not call our Meetings…“church”…we call it “Meeting”…the Church meets…sounds like community to me…but then…as I’ve said before…I am sometimes quite dense…and “invincibly ignorant” it would seem

 

[Carlan]

Friends are very much into “community”…we are on this Journey together…your characature of “Lone Ranger Christians” simply does not apply to Friends…we are joined to the Mytical Body of Christ through the Baptism of the Spirit…we do understand it is through the Church that we experience the family of God…perhpas that’s why we do not call our Meetings…“church”…we call it “Meeting”…the Church meets…sounds like community to me…but then…as I’ve said before…I am sometimes quite dense…and “invincibly ignorant” it would seem

Please excuse me for chiming in here again But I think in the sense that you are not in community with the universal Church, the one which began on Pentecost(see Acts2), you are not in community with the one Church Christ began 2000 years back.You are separated and in that sense you can be considered part of the “lone ranger Christians” (Elvismans expression)as you commune in your own separate Church meeting apart from the many thousands of other separated communities, Peace, Carlan

 

[SteveVH]

Thanks Steve, This has been an excellent discussion!
Peace, Carlan

Glad you are part of it.

 

[SteveVH]

Friends are very much into “community”…we are on this Journey together…your characature of “Lone Ranger Christians” simply does not apply to Friends…we are joined to the Mytical Body of Christ through the Baptism of the Spirit…we do understand it is through the Church that we experience the family of God…perhpas that’s why we do not call our Meetings…“church”…we call it “Meeting”…the Church meets…sounds like community to me…but then…as I’ve said before…I am sometimes quite dense…and “invincibly ignorant” it would seem

We “meet” by participating in the liturgy. We belong to the “Church”, the people of God, even when we are not “meeting”. I would agree that you have “community”, but your communtiy is separated from our “community” in many ways.

I am just curious. You speak of the “Baptism of the Spirit”. In your faith tradition do you baptize with water, in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit? If you do not this would be a major separation. If you do we would at least be united through baptism.

Thanks.

 

[Publisher]

We “meet” by participating in the liturgy. We belong to the “Church”, the people of God, even when we are not “meeting”. I would agree that you have “community”, but your communtiy is separated from our “community” in many ways.

I am just curious. You speak of the “Baptism of the Spirit”. In your faith tradition do you baptize with water, in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit? If you do not this would be a major separation. If you do we would at least be united through baptism.

Thanks.

We share similar view…we are joined to the Body of Christ by His Spirit even when not in First Day Meeting…

We do not practice rituals or rites such as water baptism…the baptism that truly “saves” is throught the Baptism of the Spirit…one can undergo water baptism and remain unchanged…no one can undergo the Baptism of the Spirit and remain the same. It is this One Baptism that unites us to Christ and one another.

 

[Carlan]

We share similar view…we are joined to the Body of Christ by His Spirit even when not in First Day Meeting…

We do not practice rituals or rites such as water baptism…the baptism that truly “saves” is through the Baptism of the Spirit…one can undergo water baptism and remain unchanged…no one can undergo the Baptism of the Spirit and remain the same. It is this One Baptism that unites us to Christ and one another.

As a Christian do you not believe in the Trinity?
Most Christians believe in the kind of Baptism Jesus experienced, with water,for cleansing of original sin of the first parents Adam and Eve , and in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Although Jesus did not need to be cleansed of sin. It was to show how very important Baptism is, that He had John Baptize. At Baptism we are most certainly filled with the Holy Spirit it is part of our justification, we die to sin so as to able to live in Christ and to become holy as Christ is holy all through the power of the Holy Spirit within us, for Catholics it is a life process , we are empowered through the Sacraments by the Holy Spirit.Peace, Carlan

 

[Publisher]

As a Christian do you not believe in the Trinity?
Most Christians believe in the kind of Baptism Jesus experienced, with water,for cleansing of original sin of the first parents Adam and Eve , and in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Although Jesus did not need to be cleansed of sin. It was to show how very important Baptism is, that He had John Baptize. At Baptism we are most certainly filled with the Holy Spirit it is part of our justification, we die to sin so as to able to live in Christ and to become holy as Christ is holy all through the power of the Holy Spirit within us, for Catholics it is a life process , we are empowered through the Sacraments by the Holy Spirit.Peace, Carlan

While I may not use your words to explain the “Trinity”…I do believe that God became one of us in the man Jesus…and through Him our Life resides.

If I wish to know what God is like…I look to the man Jesus of Nazareth…if I wish to know what the Holy Spirit is like…I again…look to the man Jesus of Nazareth.

When we are baptized with the Holy Spirit we are cleansed from all sin…and through His ministry, we are santified.

 

[SteveVH]

We share similar view…we are joined to the Body of Christ by His Spirit even when not in First Day Meeting…

We do not practice rituals or rites such as water baptism…the baptism that truly “saves” is throught the Baptism of the Spirit…one can undergo water baptism and remain unchanged…no one can undergo the Baptism of the Spirit and remain the same. It is this One Baptism that unites us to Christ and one another.

Publisher,

We believe that in baptism it is the Holy Spirit who cleanses our souls and infuses them with supernatural life. Baptism, by its very nature requires baptism in the Holy Spirit. We are baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the HOLY SPIRIT. While I do not want to get off topic here and concentrate on baptism, this brings into focus the larger problem that occurs when Christian churches depart from the Church that Jesus founded and insert their private notions in place of the teachings handed down by the Apostles.

Can you explain how or why the founders of the Quakers rejected baptism by water?

 

[Publisher]

Publisher,

We believe that in baptism it is the Holy Spirit who cleanses our souls and infuses them with supernatural life. Baptism, by its very nature requires baptism in the Holy Spirit. We are baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the HOLY SPIRIT. While I do not want to get off topic here and concentrate on baptism**, this brings into focus the larger problem that occurs when Christian churches depart from the Church that Jesus founded **and insert their private notions in place of the teachings handed down by the Apostles.

Can you explain how or why the founders of the Quakers rejected baptism by water?

Good thing I am a member of the Church which Jesus founded…

Baptism has it’s roots in Judaism…it was and is a Jewish rite adopted by the first Jewish Christians…Friends believe all RITUAL requirements are fulfilled in Jesus of Nazareth…having rituals performed for us or to us or in our behalf are rejected. If a person feels they have the need for water baptism…great…but any and all “rituals” poiint to Christ…He is our Reality…He and He alone is our Baptizer…as a Friend, I have been baptized by His hand…I need no other to do something for me to be reconciled to God…He and He alone is our Salvation…He and He alone is the only Priest I need to "act in my behalf.

From Ohio Yearly Meeting of Friends

""Quakers don’t believe in water baptism. Friends eschew the importance of all external religious practice. There is no efficacy in water baptism, just as there is none in observing the “Lord’s Supper” using bread and juice, or calling a minister “Rev.” or processions, or liturgies, etc. etc. We are ‘baptized’ by the Holy Spirit, as John the Baptist even clearly states "I baptize you with water, but the one who comes after me will baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire. John 3:16 ‘Baptism’ means to ‘be put into’ or ‘submerged into’ something. Are we put into Christ by water? No. By His own blood we become a part of Him.

The purpose of baptism is to wash one clean of past sins and of the power of sin, to leave one pure to go forward as a member of the body of Christ. Jesus plainly warned of the hypocrisy of the Pharisees, who washed the outside of the cup and left the inside unclean, or who whitewashed the outside of a tomb when the inside was corrupt. In the same way, outward washing with water, (even scrubbing with soap!) has no effect on the source our our defilement - the heart. Hitler, Stalin, the Spanish inquisitors were all baptized with water - it did not make their hearts pure! But Christ will can wash us clean and make us pure, Christ “Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” Mt 3:12 This true cleansing is the baptism we recognize and humbly seek every day.

Although Jesus submitted to baptism himself, he clearly stated that he did so to fulfill the scriptures. Once they were fulfilled, baptism by water, as the ministry of John the Baptist, was to decrease and the ministry and baptism Christ were to increase and take their place"

 

[Carlan]

While I may not use your words to explain the “Trinity”…I do believe that God became one of us in the man Jesus…and through Him our Life resides.

If I wish to know what God is like…I look to the man Jesus of Nazareth…if I wish to know what the Holy Spirit is like…I again…look to the man Jesus of Nazareth.

When we are baptized with the Holy Spirit we are cleansed from all sin…and through His ministry, we are santified.

Semantics can be confusing. Hard to understand sometimes how far different beliefs are from the complete truth. Seems to me that what your faith teaches leaves a lot by the wayside.:shrugeace, Carlan.

 

[Publisher]

Semantics can be confusing. Hard to understand sometimes how far different beliefs are from the complete truth. Seems to me that what your faith teaches leaves a lot by the wayside.:shrugeace, Carlan.

For me…it carries all the Fullness of the faith we have in Christ…He is all and in all**…in Him we live and move and have our being…**seems to be pretty complete to me. In Him there is Fullness.

 

[SteveVH]

Good thing I am a member of the Church which Jesus founded…

Baptism has it’s roots in Judaism…it was and is a Jewish rite adopted by the first Jewish Christians…Friends believe all RITUAL requirements are fulfilled in Jesus of Nazareth…having rituals performed for us or to us or in our behalf are rejected. If a person feels they have the need for water baptism…great…but any and all “rituals” poiint to Christ…He is our Reality…He and He alone is our Baptizer…as a Friend, I have been baptized by His hand…I need no other to do something for me to be reconciled to God…He and He alone is our Salvation…He and He alone is the only Priest I need to "act in my behalf.

From Ohio Yearly Meeting of Friends

""Quakers don’t believe in water baptism. Friends eschew the importance of all external religious practice. There is no efficacy in water baptism, just as there is none in observing the “Lord’s Supper” using bread and juice, or calling a minister “Rev.” or processions, or liturgies, etc. etc. We are ‘baptized’ by the Holy Spirit, as John the Baptist even clearly states "I baptize you with water, but the one who comes after me will baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire. John 3:16 ‘Baptism’ means to ‘be put into’ or ‘submerged into’ something. Are we put into Christ by water? No. By His own blood we become a part of Him.

The purpose of baptism is to wash one clean of past sins and of the power of sin, to leave one pure to go forward as a member of the body of Christ. Jesus plainly warned of the hypocrisy of the Pharisees, who washed the outside of the cup and left the inside unclean, or who whitewashed the outside of a tomb when the inside was corrupt. In the same way, outward washing with water, (even scrubbing with soap!) has no effect on the source our our defilement - the heart. Hitler, Stalin, the Spanish inquisitors were all baptized with water - it did not make their hearts pure! But Christ will can wash us clean and make us pure, Christ “Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” Mt 3:12 This true cleansing is the baptism we recognize and humbly seek every day.

Although Jesus submitted to baptism himself, he clearly stated that he did so to fulfill the scriptures. Once they were fulfilled, baptism by water, as the ministry of John the Baptist, was to decrease and the ministry and baptism Christ were to increase and take their place"

Thank you. I have learned a lot. We are much further apart than I realized.

 

[Carlan]

Although Jesus submitted to baptism himself, he clearly stated that he did so to fulfill the scriptures. * Once they were fulfilled, baptism by water, as the ministry of John the Baptist, was to decrease and the ministry and baptism Christ were to increase and take their place"*

I believe here you have been taught error here.And should I remind you that the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus in the Jordan in the form of a dove? Peace, Carlan

 

[Publisher]

Thank you. I have learned a lot. We are much further apart than I realized.

We may be further apart when comparing our various dogmas and doctrines…but we ARE One in Christ…made members of His One Body through the work of the Holy Spirit…at least I believe we are…you may have other ideas…but it isn’t important for me to make sure YOU believe we are One in Christ…it is only important that I embrace you as a brother in Christ.

 

[Curious_Seed]

Now, you are offering something worth chewing on !

 

[Carlan]

You know what I wonder following this forum as I do?
Why is it some continue to visit, when their minds are clearly closed to the explained Truths of our beliefs. After all, this is a Catholic Answer site and yet they continue with the same old, same old, year end upon year end, with very little or no growth in the understanding of Truth shared . To me it is o.k if they don’t get it or can’t accept it. We share and many do come to the fullness through C.A but why stick around if what you can’t accept is all meaningless to you? Peace, Carlan

 

[GaryTaylor]

You know what I wonder following this forum as I do?
Why is it some continue to visit, when their minds are clearly closed to the explained Truths of our beliefs. After all, this is a Catholic Answer site and yet they continue with the same old, same old, year end upon year end, with very little or no growth in the understanding of Truth shared . To me it is o.k if they don’t get it or can’t accept it. We share and many do come to the fullness through C.A but why stick around if what you can’t accept is all meaningless to you? Peace, Carlan

You just can’t imagine how many times the same thought ran through my mind

God Bless, GT